Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Kem0sabe]

Master's Degree in Popular Fiction and Bachelor's of Art in Creative Writing.

As if a degree or two qualify anyone to write fiction...

The only measure of a writer is his/her published work.

 

[Lacrymas]

I can confirm that having a creative degree doesn't guarantee you are creative or good in that field. Getting a degree in any of the creative endeavors is pretty easy, the mechanical aspects of art can be taught and understood, the spark of creativity, however, is immaterial and hard to put into words or create a formula for. It doesn't "come from within", though, that's just nonsense. Only gases come from within. It's a fully mental/intellectual process, something the SJW-like "artists" that Obsidian seem to be hiring constantly can never understand.

 

[Flou]

Master's Degree in Popular Fiction and Bachelor's of Art in Creative Writing.

As if a degree or two qualify anyone to write fiction...

The only measure of a writer is his/her published work.

Not the degree alone, but apparently Obsidian thought he did fine enough job on the Pillars of Eternity manuals and such that they gave him the writing gig on Tyranny in which he seemed to do just fine based on the characters he wrote.

 

[mildTea]

Older writers with lots of experience are expensive. Throwing contract writers with little experience at small chunks of the narrative is a cheap way to offload work. I doubt it's any more complicated than that.

Yep, pretty much that. Imagine contracting GRRM for one character or an arc. Not only nobody has money for that, but the game would be published like 12 years after its announcement.

Although, if Obsidian would like someone left-leaning, they could get China Miéville. I think amongst sci-fi/fantasy writers, it doesn't get much more leftist than him (his PhD thesis done at LSE: Between Equal Rights: A Marxist Theory of International Law).

 

[Lacrymas]

I doubt people like GRRM would accept such an offer, they probably think games are beneath them. Like Sapkowski.

 

[Modron]

I doubt people like GRRM would accept such an offer, they probably think games are beneath them. Like Sapkowski.

Didn't he do some writing for the GoT rpg? I mean he even had a cringey self insert in it.

 

[CptMace]

Writing is very particular though. Although a good video game writer would necessarily be good because he understands, to some extent, the specifity of the medium, that doesn't mean he couldn't be good on any other medium and try to take his chance elsewhere.
Meaning, we can't afford to count on the same people over and over, we need new blood. And since this medium is rather particular to write through, depends on the gameplay, the design, the atmosphere etc etc. we can't get new good writers without giving a chance to nobodies.
Or something.
I mean it's not as simple as this guy writes greats books, he'll write great games. Maybe he'll write great stories, but without insight on the game design, it's all up to the designer in the end. I guess that's what I like with Avellone, he puts the writing at the service of the gameplay and vice versa (or tries to).

 

[Iznaliu]

It's a fully mental/intellectual process, something the SJW-like "artists" that Obsidian seem to be hiring constantly can never understand.

I thought the SJWs were supposed to be the wishy-washy, creative ones?

 

[fantadomat]

It's a fully mental/intellectual process, something the SJW-like "artists" that Obsidian seem to be hiring constantly can never understand.

I thought the SJWs were supposed to be the wishy-washy, creative ones?

Well creative is very subjective term,for some creative is making huge monument with only slaves and rock,for other creative is splashing your own shit on a canvas.

 

[Rev]

It's a fully mental/intellectual process, something the SJW-like "artists" that Obsidian seem to be hiring constantly can never understand.

I thought the SJWs were supposed to be the wishy-washy, creative ones?

If by "creative" you mean "moronic, completely detached from reality and without sense of humour" then yes, I guess SJWs are creative types.

 

[Sentinel]

GRRM

GRRM is shit though.

 

[Iznaliu]

Well creative is very subjective term,for some creative is making huge monument with only slaves and rock,for other creative is splashing your own shit on a canvas.

I happen to think that being creative is doing one with one hand and the other with the other hand.

 

[Rev]

GRRM

GRRM is shit though.

He was good years ago, then the success went to his head and he took an eternity to write two books that are way worse than his first three ASoIaF ones (which he released all between 1996 and 2000, three books in three years).

 

[CptMace]

Frankly, among fantasy novels amateurs, at least where I live, GRRM is not that overrated. I think he became a reference for those who can't focus enough to read more a few pages at a time, turning this hobby into some serious challenge, therefore they lack any kind of genuine comparison material and can't tell what's good and what's great. I guess, I don't know, I just wanted to write something.

 

[JarlFrank]

As a writer myself, I can confirm that writing a book and writing a game is a very different affair and requires different approaches to writing.

If you try to write a game like a book or a movie, you will end up with something painfully linear. Novel and short story writing requires a certain way of plotting and pacing that is appropriate for the medium. Every reader will arrive at these plot points at the same time since books are a linear, set-in-stone medium. The plot twist will always be on page 88, for every reader. You can craft the reader's journey very meticulously and steer the story into the exact direction you want it to go.

Games are different. They're an interactive medium. If you write a game's plot like a book's, you end up with something as linear as your average JRPG. You have to take player interaction into account, player choices, side quests and so on. Rather than writing a linear story that goes from point A to point B, in game writing it makes much more sense to write a de-centralized plot with different goals the player has to attain, and then write a couple of quests and events that lead the player to that goal, and not all of those should have to be tackled to attain that goal. The first chapter of Baldur's Gate 2 is a great example of good game writing: you have a goal (rescue Imoen and get revenge on Irenicus), you have been offered a means to attain that goal (raise 10k gold in order to be transported to the place where Imoen and Irenicus are kept), and then you're let loose in the world to chase that goal in your own way. There are many different quests you can do in order to raise the money, but you can pick freely which ones to tackle.

That kind of thing would never work in a novel, but it works perfectly in a game. If you write your game with the mindset of a novelist, however, you would likely not even have such an idea.

 

[fantadomat]

As a writer myself, I can confirm that writing a book and writing a game is a very different affair and requires different approaches to writing.

If you try to write a game like a book or a movie, you will end up with something painfully linear. Novel and short story writing requires a certain way of plotting and pacing that is appropriate for the medium. Every reader will arrive at these plot points at the same time since books are a linear, set-in-stone medium. The plot twist will always be on page 88, for every reader. You can craft the reader's journey very meticulously and steer the story into the exact direction you want it to go.

Games are different. They're an interactive medium. If you write a game's plot like a book's, you end up with something as linear as your average JRPG. You have to take player interaction into account, player choices, side quests and so on. Rather than writing a linear story that goes from point A to point B, in game writing it makes much more sense to write a de-centralized plot with different goals the player has to attain, and then write a couple of quests and events that lead the player to that goal, and not all of those should have to be tackled to attain that goal. The first chapter of Baldur's Gate 2 is a great example of good game writing: you have a goal (rescue Imoen and get revenge on Irenicus), you have been offered a means to attain that goal (raise 10k gold in order to be transported to the place where Imoen and Irenicus are kept), and then you're let loose in the world to chase that goal in your own way. There are many different quests you can do in order to raise the money, but you can pick freely which ones to tackle.

That kind of thing would never work in a novel, but it works perfectly in a game. If you write your game with the mindset of a novelist, however, you would likely not even have such an idea.

A good way to write a game will be a few writers roleplaying the situation.

 

[CptMace]

Sure, we'll let you try to DM several writers during a role playing game session. Have fun.

 

[fantadomat]

Sure, we'll let you try to DM several writers during a role playing game session. Have fun.

I am not talking about D&D,i am talking about acting....

 

[CptMace]

Well that's awkward my pun on writers and rpg was good though, right ?

 

[Kem0sabe]

Writing for books and games is, of course, different, but that's not the problem with the vastajority of these games, it's the shit quality of the writing itself.

The dialogues, character personalities, stories, they are uterly mediocre.

That speaks to the quality of the people involved, independent of the medium.

 

[fantadomat]

Well that's awkward my pun on writers and rpg was good though, right ?

Hahaha ok sorry mate,my bad!

 

[Quillon]

A good way to write a game will be a few writers roleplaying the situation.

Ain't nobody got time for that.jpg


A good way to write a game is writing it, then editing the shit out of it. Both done by talented individuals. <This is brand new information that will break new ground and redefine the rpg.

Anyway

Spoiler

 

[AwesomeButton]

Whatever you say about writing degrees' worth, in Kirsch' case I think they have paid off. I remember reading his PoE novella after Carrie Pattel's, and it was miles better. An actually fun to read piece of fantasy fiction. I hadn't read something that fits that description in years.

 

[BilboBaggins]

What do people feel are REALLY GREAT examples of writing in a computer RPG? I mean the game overall, not just "This game had the greatest written NPC ever." or "This game had the greatest written side quest ever."

 

[fantadomat]

What do people feel are REALLY GREAT examples of writing in a computer RPG? I mean the game overall, not just "This game had the greatest written NPC ever." or "This game had the greatest written side quest ever."

Strangely i like the writing in Spireds's games.Their games are cut in very unnatural way but they can write really human character.Honestly not many modern games have really good writing.Dragon commander did have some ok writing.