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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Sannom

Augur
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Apr 11, 2010
Messages
944
No, he got blacklisted by publishers for writing joke reviews and saying shit like "this game is so bad I didnt play it for more than 20 minutes".
Who's to say that's not the truth? I cannot judge, I haven't watched or read any of his reviews, I only watch the Jimquisition. I take my reviews from another source.

Also, his 7/10 review was deliberate and obvious bait to get the nintendo fans riled up so he could go "oh look at how im being attacked for being HONEST".
Who can fault him for baiting a group this sensitive?
 

Sentinel

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Thinking_Face_Emoji.png


I guess I'll wait and see how it turns out.
After all it's a mix between a terrible system and a system that has worked pretty much flawlessly for 20 years. Not too hopeful. He's literally fixing something that isn't broken.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's hardly flawless to have a bunch of skills in your system that only one character can use. The reason he's doing this is because the game now has dialogue-only skills - the first game didn't. They'd be useless on companions without this kind of mechanic and Josh can't have that.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The reason he's doing this is because the game now has dialogue-only skills - the first game didn't. They'd be useless on companions and Josh can't have that.

So why not limit Diplomacy to the Player Character?

Because it's kind of hackish? Limiting character development like that isn't something RPGs usually do, although there is one precedent I can think of - the KOTOR games wouldn't let you take the Force Persuasion feats on companions.
 

Quillon

Arcane
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Dec 15, 2016
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It also fucks up solo builds. Who even asked for this?

Exactly my thoughts. How did they even think up this idea lol.

The game was never balanced around solo builds but it would be weird to not make a check if your PC is invested all the skill points in it then again it would be awful to make most checks cos of full party :M

Maybe current party count could effect how high the checks are?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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The reason he's doing this is because the game now has dialogue-only skills - the first game didn't. They'd be useless on companions and Josh can't have that.

So why not limit Diplomacy to the Player Character?

Because it's kind of hackish? Limiting character development like that isn't something RPGs usually do, although there is one precedent I can think of - the KOTOR games wouldn't let you take the Force Persuasion feats on companions.

There are many RPGs that allow NPCs to take dialogue skills but specify that they are useless on them. I believe NWN2 does that, for example.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

Sentinel

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Sounds pointless to be honest. Especially if PoE1's dialogue and "choices" are anything to go by.

probably not worth the trade off.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
It IS logical that the companions can help you out in dialogue, but it really depends on how much it fucks over soloing.
 
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CptMace

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Let's adress Sawyer with our concerns about soloing, so he makes sure high DC that would require party-proficiency in a skill give nothing interesting.
Then we'll be in a perfect situation to consider poe2 to be shit because, like in the first one, these dialog options don't actually unlock new possibilities.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
You can easily make the highest check only being passable by 100% devotion to a specific skill on just the PC. The idea is that one character/party shouldn't be able to pass every check in the game, and solo'ing ofc. Don't think of it as flat numbers, think of it as percentages and there wouldn't be a difference between the party helping out or only the PC's skills matter.
 
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CptMace

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How would that fuck over soloing then, I don't get it.
Seems he made it clear it wouldn't be possible to pass 100% checks, otherwise it's fucking pointless to have skill checks to begin with.
I thought your concern was more, like, what if by going solo, without any support, I get locked out of any max DC skill check.
If that's the problem, I think it should be that way. A solo dude shouldn't be able to pass the max'd DC. Otherwise what's the point of companions' skill support ? Isn't the whole point to be able to specialize the party itself in specific skills in order to access two or three options only available to the most proficient in religion and what not ?
 

FreeKaner

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I assume most of these checks would be flavour anyhow.

Still I am not sold on either these many social skills (more than AoD?) or party additive ones. Especially since I always imagined the MC to be spokesperson of the party as the leader (which is why companions follow you, no?). It's cool to have your party members help in scripted interactions with challenges as specialists but might as well just hand over the wheel while we are at it if the MC will just be catalyst to party's capabilities.
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
BTW this "triangular progression" method is also being used to allow bonus stacking from equipment. No more "suppressed" in your stat sheet.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Isn't the whole point to be able to specialize the party itself in specific skills ?

That's the problem. The party acts like a blob in this case, pooling their resources together. What I mean by "thinking of it as percentages" is this - let's say that the party needs 50 (10 from each companion, it doesn't matter how many points each companion brings as a bonus to the PC's) diplomacy to pass a certain check, while in the other system where only the PC matters you need only 10. Both of these are at 100% due to the way it's done (both in solo or blob form), so it doesn't matter whether the PC is alone or not, the first option fucks over soloing (because you still need that 50 diplomacy to pass it, in effect nerfing your PC by 80% if it only has 10 points), while the second doesn't, but are in effect the same thing. 100% requirement of a skill. I don't know if I'm explaining this right lol.
 
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CptMace

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I get you.
Still, I think the solo PC should be fucked. He's solo when he could have 4 buddies with him.
Why would we tune the difficulty off-combat differently than during combat ? Make it so a solo PC has to specialize in one or two skills in order to get as many options as he can, but not in a way that makes the highest DC options irrelevant so the solo dude doesn't feel prejudiced. He should feel prejudiced, this retard went solo ffs !
I mean, he's not "nerfed" as you say imo, he's just alone against odds that require people. And since POE2's and POE's design is how it is, going solo is always a choice, it should, as any choice, have its consequences.

Now there's always the option to put Skill Checks that only concern the PC and Skill Checks that concern the party, even make it logical as a bonus, but I don't believe it'll happen. I guess they'll adress this by making the options/rewards/outcomes of succeeding max level DC more or less irrelevant. And we'll be prepared to criticize the skills, yet again, because they're only flavour. Which will probably be the case anyway, without regard for solo playthrough... :negative:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Only if it is reflected in actual dialogue and not by background simulations.
Say that you fail to strike a bargain with a merchant, but then Pallegina chimes in with her trading knowledge (in-dialogue) and gets you that fat discount... that I could get behind.
In comparison, Sawyer's goal is just a wierd simulation of group effort.

This is actually done in an Obsidian's own game! In NWN2. It's the only game where companions interjected with their own NARRATIVE abilities to pass checks for you. More of that please.


I mean, he's not "nerfed" as you say imo, he's just alone against odds that require people. And since POE2's and POE's design is how it is, going solo is always a choice, it should, as any choice, have its consequences.

Or, you know, it could not be nerfed. Let the consequences happen in the story first before the first consequence in the entire franchise be a net negative for everyone.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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BTW this "triangular progression" method is also being used to allow bonus stacking from equipment. No more "suppressed" in your stat sheet.

Hmm, how do they handle the documentation? Sounds like an easy trap here is to have the diminished effect be a "hidden" version of supressed in that instead of clearly seeing the incompatibility you instead have the effect reduced without knowing?
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
The only time something similar to this was done in TWM2 - in that missing kid quest. You could tell Sagani to use her parenting skills to make the kid go home without a fuss.

Sawyer acknowledged it and said that something similar would be done more often in PoE2, that your companions would no longer mumble so that the NPCs you are talking with can't hear them, but would take a more pro-active role in conversations - where their skills and personalities (racist, kind to animals, etc.) would also come into play.

I hope this will amount to more than just a flat bonus to your skills.

Even BG2 occasionally let the NPCs influence the outcome of conversations.
 

Iznaliu

Arbiter
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Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
At this rate the PoE and PoE2 threads should just be merged.
 

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