Game News Pillars of Eternity delayed to early 2015

[TheGreatOne]

All this proves is that even with good management you can't make a full-scale RPG in 26 months.

If that's what it shows, it also disproves your thesis that other Kickstarters were managed poorly, at least for now.

It was never about the quality and management of other projects, it was just an excuse to bash and not play superior games made by other developers.

 

[Grunker]

All this proves is that even with good management you can't make a full-scale RPG in 26 months.

If that's what it shows, it also disproves your thesis that other Kickstarters were managed poorly, at least for now.

It was never about the quality and management of other projects, it was just an excuse to bash and not play superior games made by other developers.

 

[Athelas]

When I first saw the 'winter 2014' releae date, I remember thinking they should've worded it differently since a slipup of only a few weeks would already mean a delay into 2015.

I hope we get a bit more insight into the current state of the project over just this diplomatic announcement.

 

[TheGreatOne]

People were also butthurt when Xbros declared Fallout 3 the best CRPG of all time, that doesn't disprove the fact that people who use sales numbers as a measuring stick for quality are scum and ignorant casuals.

 

[Roguey]

Someone stole my Roguey. Zhe always left a couple of quotes to back up zher guess-work. Now it's just your beliefs versus the beliefs of butthurt Fallout fans?

for shame

"Well" was a bad choice of words. With this delay, PoE's management has fallen into "mediocre." Still better than poor.

I guess as proof I can point out that Chris Avellone was dead-certain it'd be released this year back in May, and up till the beta everything was on schedule.

If that's what it shows, it also disproves your thesis that other Kickstarters were managed poorly, at least for now.

Reminder that Wasteland 2 was in "beta" for 5 months, real-beta for 4, ultimately needed to double its budget, and it still shipped as a half-finished game. That's poor management right there.

Original Sin was in alpha for about 3 and beta for another 3 and shipped in noticeably-better-though-not-ideal conditions. I'd still rate their management less than mediocre because of all the time they wasted trying to retrofit day and night cycles and NPC schedules.

 

[Sensuki]

They've cut their art team down a bit. They cut Polina loose in February or something and Dimitri is the only character artist working on it atm. I think Kaz would have really struggled getting all his work done by December, we'd probably end up with not many portraits in the end if they did release it then (and Kaz apparently is a machine too).

I also imagine that they're going lite-on with the area paintovers

 

[Rake]

They've cut their art team down a bit. They cut Polina loose in February or something and Dimitri is the only character artist working on it atm. I think Kaz would have really struggled getting all his work done by December, we'd probably end up with not many portraits in the end if they did release it then (and Kaz apparently is a machine too).

I also imagine that they're going lite-on with the area paintovers

Didn't they recently brought another person to help with art? I think i saw a quote somewhere in Obs forums that the brought back a couple of artists

 

[Rake]

I'd still rate their management less than mediocre because of all the time they wasted trying to retrofit day and night cycles and NPC schedules.

While all the time they wasted trying to implement a good Inventory instead of reusing the IWD2 one, trying to implement the stupid engagment rules (which i still give them the possibility to be scrapped altogether in the end since i doubt Obsidian can make them work without being a clusterfuck) etc. are a shining example of good management without wasted efforts and where every dollar counts

 

[l3loodAngel]

I'd still rate their management less than mediocre because of all the time they wasted trying to retrofit day and night cycles and NPC schedules.

While all the time they wasted trying to implement a good Inventory instead of reusing the IWD2 one, trying to implement the stupid engagment rules (which i still give them the possibility to be scrapped altogether in the end since i doubt Obsidian can make them work without being a clusterfuck) etc. are a shining example of good management without wasted efforts and where every dollar counts

I would give them credit for trying to improve/implement something new if somebody would have asked them to do this or had not objected to those "improvements". They don't seem to grasp the idea of spiritual successor or make allowance for doubt.

 

[Roguey]

While all the time they wasted trying to implement a good Inventory instead of reusing the IWD2 one, trying to implement the stupid engagment rules (which i still give them the possibility to be scrapped altogether in the end since i doubt Obsidian can make them work without being a clusterfuck) etc. are a shining example of good management without wasted efforts and where every dollar counts

Infinity Engine inventory was fucking awful and needed to be improved.

Engagement is a sound idea, particularly when the alternative is MMO-style threat management.

 

[Grunker]

While all the time they wasted trying to implement a good Inventory instead of reusing the IWD2 one, trying to implement the stupid engagment rules (which i still give them the possibility to be scrapped altogether in the end since i doubt Obsidian can make them work without being a clusterfuck) etc. are a shining example of good management without wasted efforts and where every dollar counts

Infinity Engine inventory was fucking awful and needed to be improved.

Engagement is a sound idea, particularly when the alternative is MMO-style threat management.

You're beginning to sound an awful lot like Excidium. "The best thing we have is shit and this theoretical concept that has worked poorly in every practical implementation is surely better if anyone would listen."

 

[Roguey]

You're beginning to sound an awful lot like Excidium. "The best thing we have is shit and this theoretical concept that has worked poorly in every practical implementation is surely better if anyone would listen."

Engagement isn't a NWN-style AOO. I believe it's an idea worth pursuing, even if Josh wasn't the one doing it, but particularly him since he's spoken out against AOOs in the past.

 

[Sensuki]

Didn't they recently brought another person to help with art? I think i saw a quote somewhere in Obs forums that the brought back a couple of artists

The person who did the new icons is actually an animator, but she can probably do 2D work as well, she was already working on the project as an animator afaik.

Engagement isn't a NWN-style AOO. I believe it's an idea worth pursuing, even if Josh wasn't the one doing it, but particularly him since he's spoken out against AOOs in the past.

At the moment it's pretty much an AoO (with an animation), except to qualify you have to be engaged, rather than simply moving near an enemy.

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory, but a better interface for the bag of holding type stuff could have been done, rather than the list-based container. The best inventory IMO would be IE inventory plus Titan Quest Stash = WIN.

 

[Athelas]

I would say being able to view and manipulate all partymember's inventories at once is a pretty huge improvement. With the latest patch, inventory now has the same amount of slots as the BG games.

Of course, per-character inventories are entirely superfluous in PoE, so it's arguably a failure.

 

[l3loodAngel]

You're beginning to sound an awful lot like Excidium. "The best thing we have is shit and this theoretical concept that has worked poorly in every practical implementation is surely better if anyone would listen."

Thing is, that it doesn't work that way. To improve system you must first understand what makes it tick, rebuild it and then work forward improving it bit by bit. The worst thing someone could do is throw ideas around without understanding the core. Josh doesn't. Those things are there for a reason. Some reasons could be bad, but some are there to solve unintended problems.

 

[Roguey]

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory,

Bullshit.

The worst thing someone could do is throw ideas around without understanding the core. Josh doesn't.

Also bullshit.

 

[Grunker]

You're beginning to sound an awful lot like Excidium. "The best thing we have is shit and this theoretical concept that has worked poorly in every practical implementation is surely better if anyone would listen."

Engagement isn't a NWN-style AOO

You guys kept saying this (tron, sen, you), and I kept believing you, yet it's pretty much exactly like an NWN AoO in practice.

 

[Roguey]

You guys kept saying this (tron, sen, you), and I kept believing you, yet it's pretty much exactly like an NWN AoO in practice.

Game isn't finished yet and has at the very least 4 more months of work left to go.

 

[Grunker]

You guys kept saying this (tron, sen, you), and I kept believing you, yet it's pretty much exactly like an NWN AoO in practice.

Game isn't finished yet and has at the very least 4 more months of work left to go.

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

 

[Roguey]

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

The idea behind it is definitely different from a NWN AoO. The execution so far isn't, and that's fine, because it's not a completed feature. If it ships as something indistinguishable from a NWN AoO that will not be fine, but I'm confident they won't. Judging by statements JES has said about gameplay ("Good gameplay is better than whatever your ideas or whatever the player's expectations are. Simple and understandable: don't follow genre conventions simply because they exist. Beyond that, 'attempting to execute something because you think it's a good idea or players insist it's a good idea doesn't always result in something good.'"), it'll either be improved by release or cut.

 

[Rake]

You guys kept saying this (tron, sen, you), and I kept believing you, yet it's pretty much exactly like an NWN AoO in practice.

Game isn't finished yet and has at the very least 4 more months of work left to go.

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

If they don't scrap it altogether, the simplest way to fix it is to make it sticky. Engagement stops the enemy movement, and locks him in place, until he kills you or uses a special "escape engagement" ability if he has one(rogues).
No AoO or other such bullshit in a RT game.

 

[Rake]

improved by release or cut.

Consuming a ton of time and money in the proccess. Great management indeed

 

[Grunker]

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

The idea behind it

who cares

I'm sure the idea behind E.T. on the Atari was to make a fun game.

You have a habit of thinking ideas and concepts are free in time and resources to implement and test. I'm pretty sure Josh is much smarter than you in that regard.

 

[TheGreatOne]

... it'll either be improved by release or cut.

When Sawyer/Obsidian cuts content/features, it's elegant design (TM), when others do so, they have poor management.

 

[Sensuki]

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory,

Bullshit.

Tell me what's wrong with it then.