Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[J_C]

Fixed? I assume that's what you meant?
If so, I'd suggest you edit that. If Grunker hadn't made the mistake I wouldn't have read that post thrice.

No. I mean WL2 and POE had approximately equal budgets. I'm curious who managed to make the bigger game given that.

"Bigger" in what capacity? More content? More explorable landmass? More quality(TM) explorable landmass? Longer playtime? Longer playtime of quality(TM) content? Etc. I think you're getting my point. Lots of sources for contention with an "objectively" correct answer being very improbable.
Having played (and still not nearly finished WL2) I'd say that has a lot of landmass to explore. I'd be surpized if PE has as much. (Simply going by comments from Sensuki a few months back, which suggested that PE would not exactly be fuckhuge. [EDIT] Sawyer disagrees. LOL [/EDIT]) On the other hand I'd expect PE to have less empty areas/more content...
*shrug*

I also don't think, that it's a good means to measure cost of 3d vs 2d. Since the game budgets might have been similar, but that doesn't mean that the graffix budgets were similar. Unless some employees from both studios would like to enlighten us

Anyway, given the release discussions:
Anybody else planning on leaving PE alone for a weak or two after release? Just to wait out the inevitable hot-fixes/patches. (I don't expect that I'll manage to actually resist the draw. But until I give in, it'll stay my plan.)

I will resist for a few days, until the first 1-2 patch comes out which fixes the upcoming critical problems, but then I will jump right into it. Eh, who am I kidding, I will jump right into it. I have a lucky star which prevents me from the bugs of Obsidian games, so I don't expect anything serious.

 

[J_C]

Someone on the Obsidian forums PM'd me this today: http://gamecloud.net.au/featured/pillars-of-eternity-first-impressions



"It wasn't me"

What a complete tool. I weep for the future.

He doesn't seem to be very observant either - the reputation level is right there on that party screen.

I wonder how old the version of the game is that he is playing. On that now, how did he even get the game?

For example, I have TWO versions of the game on my Steam account. The Backer Beta, which is updated infrequently, and the internal Beta which is updated daily. I'm guessing by his general cluelessness that he isn't a backer, and he doesn't work at Obsidian so.... where did he get it?

Someone sweet talk him for the build number on the title screen - that will at least tell me how old the build is.

EDIT: He also said he installed the game. Well there aren't any disks yet, and you don't have to do anything if you got it through Steam so I'm guessing he torrented a very old copy.

Ok, I'm fucking butthurt because of this. Is this what is called game journalism today? The idiot doesn't know how to play (while saying that he has a long time RPG experience), he barely mentions that this is a beta, God knows which versions he is playing (he mentions that not the ones that other backers, which asks the questions, where did he get his backer copy).

Thankfully not many might have read the article, because there is only 1 comment on it. And that comment at least shows how mentally handicapped the writer is:
Dear Patrick,
Congratulations on finding the Pause button! What an adventure that must have been! It's customary to read up on a game before playing a closed beta version, so be sure to do that next time, before you've made yourself look silly.

Edit: Not cool Infinitron , not cool.

Spoiler

 

[Copper]

A whole chapter on the minutiae of adra.

There's some nice work there on those adra concept pieces.

 

[Roguey]

Looking forward to Absurdian making the same mistake inXile did by giving reviewers early copies for day-one reviews.

At least Feargus isn't the type of person to publicly rant about getting docked points for bugs.

 

[Sensuki]

Looking forward to Absurdian making the same mistake inXile did by giving reviewers early copies for day-one reviews.

I can confirm that they are doing this, but I don't know when the review patch gets sent out. Probably not yet, I would assume. Start of March, perhaps ?

 

[Roguey]

Since it's soooooooooooooooooooo big I estimate roughly a month or three weeks before release.

 

[Sensuki]

Well I found what's causing the main issue with pathfinding, so if they fix that before the press patch, that should reduce that complaint to a minimum.

 

[Starwars]

Did you send it directly to a dev? Figured that might be important to warrant it.

 

[Sensuki]

No, I just reported it in the bug forums. I'll PM Adam Brennecke I suppose.

 

[tuluse]

"Bigger" in what capacity? More content? More explorable landmass? More quality(TM) explorable landmass? Longer playtime? Longer playtime of quality(TM) content? Etc. I think you're getting my point. Lots of sources for contention with an "objectively" correct answer being very improbable.
Having played (and still not nearly finished WL2) I'd say that has a lot of landmass to explore. I'd be surpized if PE has as much. (Simply going by comments from Sensuki a few months back, which suggested that PE would not exactly be fuckhuge. [EDIT] Sawyer disagrees. LOL [/EDIT]) On the other hand I'd expect PE to have less empty areas/more content...
*shrug*

I also don't think, that it's a good means to measure cost of 3d vs 2d. Since the game budgets might have been similar, but that doesn't mean that the graffix budgets were similar. Unless some employees from both studios would like to enlighten us

Anyway, given the release discussions:
Anybody else planning on leaving PE alone for a weak or two after release? Just to wait out the inevitable hot-fixes/patches. (I don't expect that I'll manage to actually resist the draw. But until I give in, it'll stay my plan.)

Well I'm just curious. If WL2 does have more explorable landmass it would be a data point supporting my claim that bad 3D is cheaper than good 2D.

 

[Grunker]

"Bigger" in what capacity? More content? More explorable landmass? More quality(TM) explorable landmass? Longer playtime? Longer playtime of quality(TM) content? Etc. I think you're getting my point. Lots of sources for contention with an "objectively" correct answer being very improbable.
Having played (and still not nearly finished WL2) I'd say that has a lot of landmass to explore. I'd be surpized if PE has as much. (Simply going by comments from Sensuki a few months back, which suggested that PE would not exactly be fuckhuge. [EDIT] Sawyer disagrees. LOL [/EDIT]) On the other hand I'd expect PE to have less empty areas/more content...
*shrug*

I also don't think, that it's a good means to measure cost of 3d vs 2d. Since the game budgets might have been similar, but that doesn't mean that the graffix budgets were similar. Unless some employees from both studios would like to enlighten us

Anyway, given the release discussions:
Anybody else planning on leaving PE alone for a weak or two after release? Just to wait out the inevitable hot-fixes/patches. (I don't expect that I'll manage to actually resist the draw. But until I give in, it'll stay my plan.)

Well I'm just curious. If WL2 does have more explorable landmass it would be a data point supporting my claim that bad 3D is cheaper than good 2D.

Not really. It could indicate tons of other things like focus in development and less interaction per pixel.

 

[tuluse]

Not really. It could indicate tons of other things like focus in development and less interaction per pixel.

You seem to think a data point supporting something means it's proves it. I never asserted that, just that this would be supporting evidence.

 

[Blaine]

The ideal solution seems fairly obvious to me: Delay the release of the game until several weeks after it reaches what the developers consider to be build 1.0, a version acceptable for both playing and reviewing.

The game discs could then be manufactured—with a proper version of the game on-disc—and shipped in time to reach many customers on or near the release date. Physical backers could be sent their complete game packages without worry, because although some backers would no doubt receive their copies early and then immediately leak the game to the Internet, those leaks would be of version 1.0 of the game. Therefore, any "underground press" the game received would be fair enough—the equivalent of independent reviews. As for actual, "professional" reviewers, they could be sent v1.0 review copies ASAP to begin formulating their opinions. Nothing too unusual there. Meanwhile, the developers could continue squashing bugs and iterating, then release a patch with these fixes shortly after the game is released, on release day if necessary.

The only potential downsides to this are as follows:

• spoiled babies might complain about waiting 2-3% longer to play the game (no one cares; also, they wouldn't even need to know)
• Obsidian is desperate to get money immediately (shouldn't be an issue, as their financial solvency purportedly doesn't rely on PoE)
• timing issues with other computer game releases, especially RPGs (this is the only legitimate downside)

It's too late for all that now, though. PoE will apparently be rushed out the door almost as soon as it's considered acceptably playable and reviewable.

 

[Shannow]

I think you underestimate how much the "spoiled babies" would complain. And how much of a reputation that kind of negativity can build. Especially if they do find out.
And there is no reason to keep the digital players from playing longer than neccessary. At least if you consider v1.0 to be fit for playing.
Anyway, that train has left town a while ago. I expect OE will handle it better next time.

 

[Blaine]

I think you underestimate how much the "spoiled babies" would complain. And how much of a reputation that kind of negativity can build. Especially if they do find out.

Are you replying on an Internet forum, or lettering a comic book?

The spoiled babies don't have to know jack shit. All of those logistics could be handled internally. Even if they weren't, the stated purpose—to deliver a DRM-free 1.0 disc on or around launch day—is ample justification. Most of the time, when developers announce delays, they're measured in months or years, and absolutely no explanation (or an unsatisfying one) is offered.

And there is no reason to keep the digital players from playing longer than neccessary. At least if you consider v1.0 to be fit for playing.

Yes, there is: To avoid the quandary that sparked this entire discussion in the first place. That is a reason, and a very good one.

This game is luxury entertainment, not emergency rations. No one needs to have it three or four weeks earlier.

 

[Roguey]

The ideal solution seems fairly obvious to me: Delay the release of the game until several weeks after it reaches what the developers consider to be build 1.0, a version acceptable for both playing and reviewing.

PoE's budget is gone, they can't do this.

 

[agris]

Hey Sensuki, do you know in which updates / sawyer videos mentioned the skeuomorphic UI? I'm drafting a post on their forums and want to use their own words. My googling is failing me, mainly due to shitty new google's search method.

 

[Infinitron]

Note: Skeuomorphic does not mean "solid UI". It means a UI that visually appears to be constructed out of physical materials (wood, metal, etc), regardless of whether it is a solid frame on the edges of the screen or a bunch of floaty bits.

 

[Sensuki]

Art Update 54 thread, and various interviews.

I would not consider the floating portraits to be skeuomorphic, personally. It's like the bare fucking minimum.

 

[agris]

Note: Skeuomorphic does not mean "solid UI". It means a UI that visually appears to be constructed out of physical materials (wood, metal, etc), regardless of whether it is a solid frame on the edges of the screen or a bunch of floaty bits.

I know, it's essentially stylized to give the appearance of a material or function while not being of it.

Art Update 54 thread, and various interviews.

I would not consider the floating portraits to be skeuomorphic, personally. It's like the bare fucking minimum.

I got update 54, but if there's one interview you could point to where Josh or Adam discuss it, I would appreciate it.

edit: this post by Brennecke is the most telling, and I think completely contradicts what they've said in the past. But I want to be sure I know what it is they promised, and am not just pissed at unrealized unstated expectations.

Looks cool! The next challenge and suggestion would do a mockup at 1280x720 and 2560x1440 to see what it looks at low/high resolution. (We also do a 4:3 low res, but I forget the dimensions Kaz uses.) You might encounter some interesting problems.

We won't be doing anything this substantial for our solid UI. It could be a couple of weeks of programming to implement this.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Sensuki]

The massive PCWorld one from December 2013, is one where they talk about the UI a bit.

 

[Sensuki]

Made a "bug report" here about passives that don't activate until the combat state has begun, which means that you don't get those bonuses if you attack from Stealth (you know, like you're supposed to with a Rogue who has passives) or attack a neutral NPC.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70527-435-combat-state-its-pointless-to-attack-before-seen/

When you attack from Stealth, you only get the Sneak Attack bonus for being a Rogue, you don't get any of their other good stuff like Dirty Fighting, Deep Wounds or anything like that. It's an artificial limitation. To get around it you have to exit Stealth, let the enemy see you so that the combat state begins, THEN make your attack.

 

[Sensuki]

 

[Seari]

That's fucking cool.

Instagibs still don't look right to me, I wish they would make them look better.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah I'll submit a bug report about the gib animation.