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Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Maybe it would be a better idea to try to change the game for the better until release and start moding the game after that. I don't want to wait for the PoE:Sensuki Edition to enjoy PoE.

Are you really not going to enjoy the game unless the 2% duration bonus is on this random stat instead of that one? BG2 managed to be a pretty good game in spite of the fact that from a gamist pov it barely even has an attribute system, I think we can manage with this one.

It does seem like Sensuki might be a bit too obsessed with the attributes system at the expense of other things, after having worked on them so hard. On the other hand, Josh has more or less steadfastly ignored his comments on (IMO) more important ~feels~ issues like animation/recovery times, so maybe you can't blame him.
 

Duraframe300

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Maybe it would be a better idea to try to change the game for the better until release and start moding the game after that. I don't want to wait for the PoE:Sensuki Edition to enjoy PoE.

Are you really not going to enjoy the game unless the 2% duration bonus is on this random stat instead of that one? BG2 managed to be a pretty good game in spite of the fact that from a gamist pov it barely even has an attribute system, I think we can manage with this one.
That's not the point. And if Josh would be content to Copy BG2 1 to 1, from UI to hard counters to attributes i would rest easy. But the fact remains that he is not, and 99% of Sensuki's critisisms are spot on, and half of them are already implemented by Obsidian resulting in a better game. I would trust Sensuki or Grunker or Felipepepe more than Sawyer to recognize what parts of the IE games were good and should be preserved in the spiritual succesor as far as presentation and gameplay goes.

First off I do support Sensuki. I have to say though that presuming the Obsidian devs wouldn't have done those things without Sensuki (Or generally that they somehow wouldn't have refined things in these months without the communitys critisism is a bit....

Of course, the same argument is exactly WHY critisism is important. Internally things get better through team discussions and arguments and through player experience in QA. Having more people involved, especially as dedicated as Sensuki, widens the discussion, brings in new arguments. This is most important.

Of course Sensuki could have worded his post less aggressive, but who cares? Its the codex. I'm like 99% sure nobody on the dev team cares as well. They are interested in the critisism, not especially the wording.
Oh, i'm not saying that Obsidian wouldn't have made the game better on their own. Just that posters like Sensuki (and the others i have mentioned) who liked the IE games more than Sawyer and most of Obsidian devs/testers, have a different perpsective of what a good IE game should be like, and they may point things that Sawyer/Obsidian wouldn't think about.
.

Thats more or less what I just said. Improving the discussion,
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
It does seem like Sensuki might be a bit too obsessed with the attributes system at the expense of other things, after having worked on them so hard. On the other hand, Josh has more or less steadfastly ignored his comments on (IMO) more important ~feels~ issues like animation/recovery times, so maybe you can't blame him.

Josh tends to ignore most things I say actually, but he does reply to me sometimes on SA. I'm also pretty certain that if I did that paper on my own it would have been ignored a lot more as well. I even asked for extra info and said we could do the math to balance the weapon damage ranges properly and he didn't even respond.

I won't be putting much more effort into trying to convince them to change the attribute system because I have already made my own mod and I can just work on that myself, without having to suffer what they decide on. I haven't really started to put any effort into v301 yet either as I've been busy, but when I do, I will be doing more of the same - suggestions, new threads, and looking for bugs.

I think it's kinda funny how he always talks about balance and makes a big fuss about "how to balance an RPG" but when it comes to actually getting the balance right, it's "not important" at convenient times when challenged.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I didn't say that it wasn't important, just that there are more important things. You need to remember that Josh is the project director and he has an entire fucking game to finalize - content, quests, everything. It may very well be that at this point he's delegated all system balancing tasks to Tim Cain.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Yes, there are more important things now. Like I said, I've already done the work I needed to do to retain my system and now attributes are not a priority for me, besides making them more impactful (which I can easily do in my version). I will be focusing on other things.

I've figured out how to remove recovery time pause while moving (quite easy) but I have to figure out how to retain it for firearms before I can mod it out.
 

Duraframe300

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I didn't say that it wasn't important, just that there are more important things. You need to remember that Josh is the project director and he has an entire fucking game to finalize - content, quests, everything. It may very well be that at this point he's delegated all system balancing tasks to Tim Cain.

IIRC, in the PC Gamer article didn't they mention Tim doing balance passes on the classes or something?
 

Grunker

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It may very well be that at this point he's delegated all system balancing tasks to Tim Cain.

oh_god_no_by_sonicfan1143-d71xvao.jpg
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Bobby Null will be handling quest finalization as the Lead Area Designer.

It may very well be that at this point he's delegated all system balancing tasks to Tim Cain.

Josh will be doing all of the system balancing. Tim is a programmer, it's his job to create the new abilities, talents and implement Josh's required balance changes.

By the way we can still purchase beta keys. Some random Swiss guy from the Obs boards added me to steam asking for help trying to get PE beta access, I ended up buying a bonus key on my account after he payed the $25usd and gave it to him.

I doubt anyone here wants to opt in though after reading this thread

:troll:
 
Last edited:

Athelas

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Oh, i'm not saying that Obsidian wouldn't have made the game better on their own. Just that posters like Sensuki (and the others i have mentioned) who liked the IE games more than Sawyer and most of Obsidian devs/testers, have a different perpsective of what a good IE game should be like, and they may point things that Sawyer/Obsidian wouldn't think about.
Case in point, item sketches. In my opinion it should have been an A (B at the least) priority feature, and Obsidian should have budgeted accordingly hiring an additional artist from the start.
Eh, this is a good example of why achieving an actual consensus of what elements make for a good IE game isn't all that easy. Item sketches are a luxury and should rank at the bottom of things that currently need attention IMO. I'd rather have good-looking icons since that's the thing you'll actually be interacting with all the time.
 

Seaking4

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Bobby Null will be handling quest finalization as the Lead Area Designer.

It may very well be that at this point he's delegated all system balancing tasks to Tim Cain.

Josh will be doing all of the system balancing. Tim is a programmer, it's his job to create the new abilities, talents and implement Josh's required balance changes.

By the way we can still purchase beta keys. Some random Swiss guy from the Obs boards added me to steam asking for help trying to get PE beta access, I ended up buying a bonus key on my account after he payed the $25usd and gave it to him.

I doubt anyone here wants to opt in though after reading this thread

:troll:

I noticed you could still buy things too. I'm still considering getting the expansion. Just not sure if it's worth it. Did they say how much it would cost when it came out (as in the regular full price)?
 

throwaway

Cipher
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So I missed like the last 150 pages of this thread. Anyone bother to fill me in on the developments?
 

throwaway

Cipher
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Ta everyone.
So the beta build's gotten an update? How come it wasn't covered on the frontpage?
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
It's had two updates. I will be doing a writeup about the Beta soonish, I'll probably release it after the next build or something ?
 

Bester

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Music is almost definitely shit. Not IE-like anyway. Insipid and unmemorable.

The rest is either good or probably will be with mods.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I have not followed this thread too closely in the last few days. What are our goals to push Obsidian on now? Aside from bugs fixes, what major changes are we (Sensuki?) pushing for the attribute system now?

Also, I cannot reach my home computer yet, did they add new talents or abilities in the recent build?
 

Hormalakh

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I have to agree with Sensuki's sentiment that Josh is very inconsistent with the way he deals with the attributes when it comes to classes. Some attributes he's adamant have to be fully workable for all classes (MIGHT has to give damage increases to ALL classes as opposed to only physical damage) and in other attributes he's totally fine with each half of the classes getting half of benefit from the attribute. Of course, there are some classes which would get all the benefit from these classes and so those attributes become indispensable (perception for rangers).

anyone want to ask him (infinitron?) why he's ok with this sort of design choice?
 

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