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- May 29, 2010
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I've finally played and completed Pillars of Eternity. Sordid details following.
Systems (Sawyerism Ascending)
I made an artistic crit monster Orlan rogue with most of my points in intelligence, perception, and resolve. I took passive abilities and talents whenever I could (on all characters). Despite not powergaming by any means, my characters felt pretty rewarding to build and effective in combat, ergo this has a great character creation and leveling system with more flexibility than D&D. Sure, there are a bunch of talents that I'd never consider taking, but they do have value as convenience features or theme-based builds.
It's not perfect by any means. Despite building as passively as possible, it still has a bit of a per-encounter problem, and I was always very happy to come across enemies with immunities to knockdown, blindness, and/or hobbling because it meant I could disregard bothering with those abilities.
I tried out every character class except the monk, and enjoyed playing every one except the cipher, which has a major per-encounter problem. Such a micro-heavy class is better played with the AI on, which brings about a noticeable drop in difficulty. I imagine one can get the game to play itself by making at least two ciphers, and assigning one to Damage and the other to Crowd Control. No wonder this is the preferred class of Chris Avellone and Something Awful goons. I'll stick with the far more prestigious Vancian casters (and ignore the comparably-micro-heavy monk).
Skills are very sensible, and it's nice to have a system where everyone in the party can get a benefit from everything. I'm grateful Sawyer reworked athletics and fatigue into what they are now, because having a soft time limit would have been a constant source of anxiety.
Despite all the gripes from others about things like engagement and lack of rounds, it mostly felt like playing an Infinity Engine title. The only two big changes to my playstyle were my staggering of ranged attacks (on account of range differences) and my refusal to move characters away when attacked.
The knockdown injuries added in 3.0 were sometimes insignificant and sometimes a minor inconvenience, which works with its goal of punishing you for less-than-optimal playing without being so harsh as to force a reload or an immediate rest.
I can't understand the problems so many others have with magical loot, though it's admittedly never been a concern of mine in any RPG. As with combat, it all felt very D&D-ish to me.
Didn't dislike the stronghold, but I didn't love it either. The rest bonuses were nice to have (though an infrequent rester like me would have possibly been better off sticking with high priced inn rooms), and the quest added in 3.0 was entertaining enough (though The Battle of Yenwood Field sends the framerate plummeting with all those characters on screen), but I didn't think much of the loot from the adventures. I only had to deal with two random attacks on account of pumping up security asap, so that wasn't an issue.
Writing (Not so much of a folly after all)
I was expecting dry dialogue and first-draft awkwardness (Robe Man is Pillars's Jeyne Kassynder), and that's what I received. I was also expecting massive lore dumps, but this doesn't come across as any more infodumpy than Mask of the Betrayer or New Vegas. I think a lot of people have just gotten too used to CD Projekt-style writing, and Josh Sawyer's fixation with making people sound as mundane as possible exacerbates the issue. After all, this is a guy who thinks Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is a first-rate example of a game with great dialogue, and finds Metal Gear too gaudy.
However, just because it's dry doesn't mean it's humorless. There were quite a few humorous moments, and it's unfortunate there's an audience out there who seemingly won't be satisfied with anything less than Full-Minsc.
I don't see the problem with character motivation either. Your first goal is to find out what happened to you, and once that's done, to find out how to stop yourself from being forced to re-enact past-life flashbacks until you lose your mind entirely. There's also the Black Isle tradition of choosing your motivation in dialogue (with an "I don't know" option for those not paying attention).
Additionally, I'm sure it's been stated many times before, but voiced dialogue should not be included in any nodes that include text descriptions; it makes reading along very uncomfortable. I hope they learned their lesson and put this into their writing guidelines.
I enjoyed all the companion content and didn't outright dislike any of them, though the resting required to continue Durance and Grieving Mother's quests was frustrating (Avellone must be a frequent rester). I had to rest twice in a row at the end just to finish Durance's quest, and it's somewhat disappointing how, unlike all the other companions, there were no roleplaying choices to make with him other than choosing to finish the conversation or not.
Even though she's officially the Least-Liked companion, I thought Pallegina's attitude was fun, though Josh was awfully heavy with the social justice allegory, even (probably unintentionally) including a nod to the Respectful Nod and (possibly intentionally) spreading his girlfriend's pro-Israel beliefs.
(As an aside, there's also a Dyrwood-as-Africa bit)
Moreover, as noted by at least one goon over a year ago, Pallegina's confrontation with Hylea is the fantasy equivalent of A Boy Named Sue. If I wasn't so wary about identity-related things, I'd commission an image of Pallegina yelling "MY NAME IS SUE! HOW DO YOU DO! NOW YOU'RE GONNA DIE!" at the flock of birds that is Hylea.
The recurring themes I noticed were Learning to Live with Disappointment (awfully meta of them), and that one Rolling Stones song (I saw Woedica at the reception, a glass of wine in her hand...).
Content (Icewind Dale 3+ [the plus is for further enhancement])
I'll agree with Sensuki on at least one thing: exploring nothing but wide maps doesn't feel very-Infinity-Engine-like. I'd have liked to have explored some squares and vertical rectangles. The combat density in these wide non-Od Nua maps is between the first Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale (not counting expansions, my BG kills: 700 IWD: 1700 PoE: 1300 with a brief excursion through level 7 of Od Nua, 1100 without); I can understand the angst from BG superfans who want huge empty places to clear black in, but I'm fine with it, and it shouldn't come as a surprise considering Sawyer's pre-release thoughts on it (BG too empty, IWD2 too dense).
As for what I thought about this combat? I played on Hard difficulty, and I thought it was fantastic. Just about every area had a good number of demanding/interesting fights by the same standard I used for BG/IWD/IWD2 (anything that requires more than auto-attacking or per-encounter rote actions), and I made sure to write down every one.
Temple of Eothas
-
First fight with a skuldr king
Will-o-wisps
2 groups of shades
A group with two skuldr kings
Anslog's Compass
-
Fight with a Xaurip Champion and a Priest
Black Meadow
-
The Bandit Camp
The two forest lurkers
Raedric's Hold
-
Osrya and her undead crew
The Black Ooze room
Raedric and his crew
Caed Nua
-
Those stunning phantoms
Woodend Plains
-
Pwgras and forest trolls
The lion pride
Defiance Bay
-
The party in the thieves' hideout
Trolls and sporelings in the Catacombs
Skeletons and skeleton wizards in the Catacombs
Dodwyna's group
The big asylum fight with the flesh constructs and crazed patients
A skeleton party in Heritage Hill
Tons of undead outside the tower in Heritage Hill
A cean gwla and her thralls in Heritage Hill
The two groups of animats, rain blights, and an adra animat on the shore of Ondra's Gift
The spectre/shade ambush in the lighthouse (didn't bother trying out the Cean Gwla at the top but I'm sure it would have been a challenge)
The party on the bridge from The Forgotten sidequest
All the rogue knights attacking the Crucible Knights
Stormwall Gorge
-
An adragan, delemgan, elder lion, and lions
Dyrford Crossing
-
Menpwgra, forest lurkers, and pwgra
3 massive groups of widowmaker and ivory spiders (one with a spider queen)
Korgrak the Ogre and his elder bears
Wyrmund and the Skaen cultists
Cliaban Rilag
-
Corrupted druids, pwgra, and menpwgra
Those damn mind-controlling Swamp Spores
Two groups of a bunch of animats, one with an Adra Animat
Searing Falls
-
2 groups of drakes with flame blights
Cail the Silent along with xaurips and drakes
Pearlwood Bluff
-
Drakes and menpwgra
Stormwall Gorge revisited
-
The Leaden Key party
Two elder stelgaers and stelgaers
Two swamp spores
Stelgaers, pwgra, and a forest lurker
Elmshore: Holy cow did they retune this with 3.0. Every fight off the critical path is an ordeal. At first I was concerned it was going to be nothing but Spiked Difficulty from here on out, but fortunately that wasn't the case.
-
Two adragans and rain blights
An Adra beetle, stone beetle, forest lurkers, and a troll
Adragans, beetles, and forest lurkers
Adragans and blights
Ogre matron, ogre druids, and ogres
Oldsong
-
Bears, a petrifying jerk, and a barbarian
Northweald/Temple of Hylea: There's a massive group of forest lurkers and rain blights that's notable for its tediousness, I'm surprised that made it through the Great Re-Tuning.
-
Adragans and adra beetles
The sky dragon
Return to Raedric's Hold
-
Raedric with his charming fampyrs. I imagine a better player than me could beat this one without requiring the services of a level 11 Durance, specifically immunity from charm, but I could not.
Burial Isle and the End Game: I should note that by this point I was feeling ready to complete this, so I didn't explore these areas fully; just enough to complete Hiravias's quest, then I used the shortcut and made a beeline to Thaos.
-
Cean glwas, spectres, and shades
Thaos and the statues
I'm sure you've noticed that I skipped out on Od Nua and the bounties. By the time I had done all the story quests I wanted to do (everything except Berath's quest and one that required bird-stealing; neither fit my benevolent artist's character), my main character and Durance (who was the only companion to never leave my party because I wanted that quest to finish damnit) were level 11, so I used map metaknowledge to complete Kana's sidequest ASAP (by the way, I don't appreciate their putting his quest seven levels down) and it was all very easy given my level. If I should replay Pillars in the future, I plan to do almost nothing but critical path content, the megadungeon, and the bounties.
How I Believe Pillars of Eternity Stacks Up to Other RPGs
The Worthy Successor: It blows both Icewind Dale games out of the water (though I admit I think Isair and Madae are more interesting antagonists than Thaos), and I enjoyed it more than the first Baldur's Gate (which I did like once it got going in chapter 3). I expect and hope Pillars 2 will make BG2 look quaint by comparison.
The Best Combat of Obsidian's Catalogue: It knocks Dungeon Siege III off its perch. Obviously it doesn't have the best role-playing or writing, but it's decent enough and far more ambitious than DS3 and South Park while retaining their level of polish. I believe Sawyer made the right call with his priorities; it just took over a year of refinement to make it right.
What About Divinity: Original Sin?: Enjoyed the combat in both, but preferred PoE's writing, character system, and user interface. Sawyerism held its own against Vinckeism as far as I'm concerned. I know there are quite a few powergaming strategy/tactical game pros here who disagree with me on both counts, but I'm just an above-average player who thought that Hard was plenty hard (no, I won't be playing Path of the Damned), and who completed Icewind Dale 1+2 and Baldur's Gate within the last few years and therefore not influenced by blurry nostalgic memories or user-made difficulty mods by and for aforementioned pros.
Did they Meet their Goals?
Addendum post
Systems (Sawyerism Ascending)
I made an artistic crit monster Orlan rogue with most of my points in intelligence, perception, and resolve. I took passive abilities and talents whenever I could (on all characters). Despite not powergaming by any means, my characters felt pretty rewarding to build and effective in combat, ergo this has a great character creation and leveling system with more flexibility than D&D. Sure, there are a bunch of talents that I'd never consider taking, but they do have value as convenience features or theme-based builds.
It's not perfect by any means. Despite building as passively as possible, it still has a bit of a per-encounter problem, and I was always very happy to come across enemies with immunities to knockdown, blindness, and/or hobbling because it meant I could disregard bothering with those abilities.
I tried out every character class except the monk, and enjoyed playing every one except the cipher, which has a major per-encounter problem. Such a micro-heavy class is better played with the AI on, which brings about a noticeable drop in difficulty. I imagine one can get the game to play itself by making at least two ciphers, and assigning one to Damage and the other to Crowd Control. No wonder this is the preferred class of Chris Avellone and Something Awful goons. I'll stick with the far more prestigious Vancian casters (and ignore the comparably-micro-heavy monk).
Skills are very sensible, and it's nice to have a system where everyone in the party can get a benefit from everything. I'm grateful Sawyer reworked athletics and fatigue into what they are now, because having a soft time limit would have been a constant source of anxiety.
Despite all the gripes from others about things like engagement and lack of rounds, it mostly felt like playing an Infinity Engine title. The only two big changes to my playstyle were my staggering of ranged attacks (on account of range differences) and my refusal to move characters away when attacked.
The knockdown injuries added in 3.0 were sometimes insignificant and sometimes a minor inconvenience, which works with its goal of punishing you for less-than-optimal playing without being so harsh as to force a reload or an immediate rest.
I can't understand the problems so many others have with magical loot, though it's admittedly never been a concern of mine in any RPG. As with combat, it all felt very D&D-ish to me.
Didn't dislike the stronghold, but I didn't love it either. The rest bonuses were nice to have (though an infrequent rester like me would have possibly been better off sticking with high priced inn rooms), and the quest added in 3.0 was entertaining enough (though The Battle of Yenwood Field sends the framerate plummeting with all those characters on screen), but I didn't think much of the loot from the adventures. I only had to deal with two random attacks on account of pumping up security asap, so that wasn't an issue.
Writing (Not so much of a folly after all)
I was expecting dry dialogue and first-draft awkwardness (Robe Man is Pillars's Jeyne Kassynder), and that's what I received. I was also expecting massive lore dumps, but this doesn't come across as any more infodumpy than Mask of the Betrayer or New Vegas. I think a lot of people have just gotten too used to CD Projekt-style writing, and Josh Sawyer's fixation with making people sound as mundane as possible exacerbates the issue. After all, this is a guy who thinks Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is a first-rate example of a game with great dialogue, and finds Metal Gear too gaudy.
However, just because it's dry doesn't mean it's humorless. There were quite a few humorous moments, and it's unfortunate there's an audience out there who seemingly won't be satisfied with anything less than Full-Minsc.
I don't see the problem with character motivation either. Your first goal is to find out what happened to you, and once that's done, to find out how to stop yourself from being forced to re-enact past-life flashbacks until you lose your mind entirely. There's also the Black Isle tradition of choosing your motivation in dialogue (with an "I don't know" option for those not paying attention).
Additionally, I'm sure it's been stated many times before, but voiced dialogue should not be included in any nodes that include text descriptions; it makes reading along very uncomfortable. I hope they learned their lesson and put this into their writing guidelines.
I enjoyed all the companion content and didn't outright dislike any of them, though the resting required to continue Durance and Grieving Mother's quests was frustrating (Avellone must be a frequent rester). I had to rest twice in a row at the end just to finish Durance's quest, and it's somewhat disappointing how, unlike all the other companions, there were no roleplaying choices to make with him other than choosing to finish the conversation or not.
Even though she's officially the Least-Liked companion, I thought Pallegina's attitude was fun, though Josh was awfully heavy with the social justice allegory, even (probably unintentionally) including a nod to the Respectful Nod and (possibly intentionally) spreading his girlfriend's pro-Israel beliefs.
(As an aside, there's also a Dyrwood-as-Africa bit)
Moreover, as noted by at least one goon over a year ago, Pallegina's confrontation with Hylea is the fantasy equivalent of A Boy Named Sue. If I wasn't so wary about identity-related things, I'd commission an image of Pallegina yelling "MY NAME IS SUE! HOW DO YOU DO! NOW YOU'RE GONNA DIE!" at the flock of birds that is Hylea.
The recurring themes I noticed were Learning to Live with Disappointment (awfully meta of them), and that one Rolling Stones song (I saw Woedica at the reception, a glass of wine in her hand...).
Content (Icewind Dale 3+ [the plus is for further enhancement])
I'll agree with Sensuki on at least one thing: exploring nothing but wide maps doesn't feel very-Infinity-Engine-like. I'd have liked to have explored some squares and vertical rectangles. The combat density in these wide non-Od Nua maps is between the first Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale (not counting expansions, my BG kills: 700 IWD: 1700 PoE: 1300 with a brief excursion through level 7 of Od Nua, 1100 without); I can understand the angst from BG superfans who want huge empty places to clear black in, but I'm fine with it, and it shouldn't come as a surprise considering Sawyer's pre-release thoughts on it (BG too empty, IWD2 too dense).
As for what I thought about this combat? I played on Hard difficulty, and I thought it was fantastic. Just about every area had a good number of demanding/interesting fights by the same standard I used for BG/IWD/IWD2 (anything that requires more than auto-attacking or per-encounter rote actions), and I made sure to write down every one.
Temple of Eothas
-
First fight with a skuldr king
Will-o-wisps
2 groups of shades
A group with two skuldr kings
Anslog's Compass
-
Fight with a Xaurip Champion and a Priest
Black Meadow
-
The Bandit Camp
The two forest lurkers
Raedric's Hold
-
Osrya and her undead crew
The Black Ooze room
Raedric and his crew
Caed Nua
-
Those stunning phantoms
Woodend Plains
-
Pwgras and forest trolls
The lion pride
Defiance Bay
-
The party in the thieves' hideout
Trolls and sporelings in the Catacombs
Skeletons and skeleton wizards in the Catacombs
Dodwyna's group
The big asylum fight with the flesh constructs and crazed patients
A skeleton party in Heritage Hill
Tons of undead outside the tower in Heritage Hill
A cean gwla and her thralls in Heritage Hill
The two groups of animats, rain blights, and an adra animat on the shore of Ondra's Gift
The spectre/shade ambush in the lighthouse (didn't bother trying out the Cean Gwla at the top but I'm sure it would have been a challenge)
The party on the bridge from The Forgotten sidequest
All the rogue knights attacking the Crucible Knights
Stormwall Gorge
-
An adragan, delemgan, elder lion, and lions
Dyrford Crossing
-
Menpwgra, forest lurkers, and pwgra
3 massive groups of widowmaker and ivory spiders (one with a spider queen)
Korgrak the Ogre and his elder bears
Wyrmund and the Skaen cultists
Cliaban Rilag
-
Corrupted druids, pwgra, and menpwgra
Those damn mind-controlling Swamp Spores
Two groups of a bunch of animats, one with an Adra Animat
Searing Falls
-
2 groups of drakes with flame blights
Cail the Silent along with xaurips and drakes
Pearlwood Bluff
-
Drakes and menpwgra
Stormwall Gorge revisited
-
The Leaden Key party
Two elder stelgaers and stelgaers
Two swamp spores
Stelgaers, pwgra, and a forest lurker
Elmshore: Holy cow did they retune this with 3.0. Every fight off the critical path is an ordeal. At first I was concerned it was going to be nothing but Spiked Difficulty from here on out, but fortunately that wasn't the case.
-
Two adragans and rain blights
An Adra beetle, stone beetle, forest lurkers, and a troll
Adragans, beetles, and forest lurkers
Adragans and blights
Ogre matron, ogre druids, and ogres
Oldsong
-
Bears, a petrifying jerk, and a barbarian
Northweald/Temple of Hylea: There's a massive group of forest lurkers and rain blights that's notable for its tediousness, I'm surprised that made it through the Great Re-Tuning.
-
Adragans and adra beetles
The sky dragon
Return to Raedric's Hold
-
Raedric with his charming fampyrs. I imagine a better player than me could beat this one without requiring the services of a level 11 Durance, specifically immunity from charm, but I could not.
Burial Isle and the End Game: I should note that by this point I was feeling ready to complete this, so I didn't explore these areas fully; just enough to complete Hiravias's quest, then I used the shortcut and made a beeline to Thaos.
-
Cean glwas, spectres, and shades
Thaos and the statues
I'm sure you've noticed that I skipped out on Od Nua and the bounties. By the time I had done all the story quests I wanted to do (everything except Berath's quest and one that required bird-stealing; neither fit my benevolent artist's character), my main character and Durance (who was the only companion to never leave my party because I wanted that quest to finish damnit) were level 11, so I used map metaknowledge to complete Kana's sidequest ASAP (by the way, I don't appreciate their putting his quest seven levels down) and it was all very easy given my level. If I should replay Pillars in the future, I plan to do almost nothing but critical path content, the megadungeon, and the bounties.
How I Believe Pillars of Eternity Stacks Up to Other RPGs
The Worthy Successor: It blows both Icewind Dale games out of the water (though I admit I think Isair and Madae are more interesting antagonists than Thaos), and I enjoyed it more than the first Baldur's Gate (which I did like once it got going in chapter 3). I expect and hope Pillars 2 will make BG2 look quaint by comparison.
The Best Combat of Obsidian's Catalogue: It knocks Dungeon Siege III off its perch. Obviously it doesn't have the best role-playing or writing, but it's decent enough and far more ambitious than DS3 and South Park while retaining their level of polish. I believe Sawyer made the right call with his priorities; it just took over a year of refinement to make it right.
What About Divinity: Original Sin?: Enjoyed the combat in both, but preferred PoE's writing, character system, and user interface. Sawyerism held its own against Vinckeism as far as I'm concerned. I know there are quite a few powergaming strategy/tactical game pros here who disagree with me on both counts, but I'm just an above-average player who thought that Hard was plenty hard (no, I won't be playing Path of the Damned), and who completed Icewind Dale 1+2 and Baldur's Gate within the last few years and therefore not influenced by blurry nostalgic memories or user-made difficulty mods by and for aforementioned pros.
Did they Meet their Goals?
As far as I'm concerned, they were partially successful, successful, and partially successful.Josh Sawyer said:
Addendum post
Last edited:
