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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Sloul

Savant
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
259
With a system like Deadfire's, you really don't want long dungeons even if that's something you think you want.

Lacrymas: two words: Deep Roads.
I think you still want them, but you want them to be interesting. With nice difficulty, AI combat patterns, and possibly interesting little asides.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,123
You absolutely do not want long dungeons when Neketaka is already half of the game.

It'd be probably easy for them to combine some of the dozens of mini-dungeons into another Endless Paths,. But then you would end up with a naval-themed game where 90% of playtime you're nowhere near the water, not to mention if you're never near the water then you've just made an RPG that has no exploration.
 

Sloul

Savant
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
259
Erebus, the point is that they ultimately fail. This guy trying to unite the tribe doesn't have so much power. His plan is about uniting couple little tribes who aren't going to change anything. But in eliminating this guy, Deadfire intend to better pacify those tribes if the opportunity arise (if they win).
Imo, the perfect representation of Deadfire Company in one character would be Flint from Blacksails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbfCaFpsO-o
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
Do a lot of people care about it? I dread going to the Obsidian forums because I always get some form of internet cancer from it, so I wouldn't know. Either way, the way they described ship combat sounded like shit, the way they implemented it is shit and the way it plays is shit, so the shitslide is constant and relentless. How can they underestimate companions, dungeons and difficulty, though? Especially dungeons.
I don't think people are particularly passionate about naval combat, but the execution is terrible, and the alternative (boarding action) is broken and fucks the framerate.

With a system like Deadfire's, you really don't want long dungeons even if that's something you think you want.
Not necessarily long, but many of them are single-room or very small and dull. More Old City, Nemnok, or Vampire Island style content at the cost of several small dungeons would've been a net positive. It feels like Sawyer regrets the Endless Paths and went too hard in the other direction.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
With a system like Deadfire's, you really don't want long dungeons even if that's something you think you want.

Lacrymas: two words: Deep Roads.

Deep Roads was terrible not because it lacked a strategic element but because you fought waves and waves of identical trash mobs in identical corridors with only like 1 or 2 side quests in the entire experience. It did culminate in one of the more memorable bosses in the game, though.


It feels like Sawyer regrets the Endless Paths and went too hard in the other direction.

Same with the Endless Paths, it wasn't the length the problem, but the lack of (interesting) content in them. Samey aesthetic and too many trash mobs didn't help either.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
God damn. I was dicking around in the prologue in Port Maje, and I managed to time the bomb explosion in the prison quest to kill a random guard who was wondering around. I was so proud of myself, then I pick up his loot and he has a letter from his daughter congratulating him on landing the job in city guard.



.:despair:

:0-13:

Well played Josh. Fuck you.
But why? You could just picklock the door and let the guy out. Such a meaningless death.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
many of them are single-room
Looks like Josh "one room dungeon" Sawyer wanted a new nickname to keep Patel's Pratfall from getting one.

Deep Roads was terrible not because it lacked a strategic element but because you fought waves and waves of identical trash mobs in identical corridors with only like 1 or 2 side quests in the entire experience. It did culminate in one of the more memorable bosses in the game, though.
They weren't identical, I've written about this http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-rather-fun-so-far.76693/page-10#post-2619429
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
I think it's more about giving Housing abilities to player.
Boats = the new Caed Nua. Aka BG2 stronghold.
But here they decided to go with something 'fresh' and make the stronghold a boat.

Caed Nua was pretty much a facebook game in POE, its inclusion was simply diminishing the game, with an obliteration of the 4th wall with multiple stupids quests/assaults forcing the player to teleport at the castle out of thin air to participate in battles that made no sense.
Caed Nua was a lot better than the boat. At least you owned a castle,it lacked things to do and complexity. But the boat is a lot worst than Caed Nua,it lacks everything,there is absolutely nothing to do in it. I was there only two or three times in the whole game,and that is because some events directly teleported me there.
 

Mr. Hiver

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
705
As to what's established in the game - it's that there are food shortages. Period. Your retarded argument is that there can't possibly ever be a shortage of food wherever there's water.
Shifting goal posts and a strawman - again.

Besides being bloody idiotic.
There is no food shortages anywhere in the game, as there is plenty of food everywhere you go - and the idea is stupid for this specific setting and the story.
Its even established that Rautai are coming there to get more agriculture land, which they miss back home.
Im not talking about "water" either, you dumb cretin.

Because food stores cannot be depleted lollercakez. That's why there never was any famine since the dawn of civilization, because all those granaries and larders magically refilled all the time. And if they didn't, people just had to wade a few meters from the shore to have fish jump into their arms, or a few meters into a forest to have deer sacrifice themselves at their feet.

:avatard:
Only a epic dumbfuck would go and try to change my words into that moronic diarhea and then pretend its what i said.
And if you are going to pull real history might wanna think about how numerous island societies survived and the "raging storms" and "famines". Not that you can think. Youre a laughable cretinous imbecile.

Y U NO EAT WEN U GOT DA MAGIX?!!
People can't starve because magic. Well, at least we've hereby plumbed the depths of your logical thinking.
I actually expected you to get that but thats my fault. I overestimated your cognitive abilities.

The reason i mentioned magic is your idiotic argument about storms preventing fishing and any mariculture.
Because the very first fucking mission introduces you to Watershaper indigenous wizards who can calm storms.
I mean, even in some ludicrous case where ... the "sea is raging all the time" and "storms prevent fishing!!" as your defect ignorant retard brain thinks about it.

You certainly are a fountain of something.
Nah, that would be you, you dumb devolved turd.

what can change the nature of your shitposting? Admitting that half of your arguments are retarded bullshit would help.
:lol:

Nothing can change the nature of you. Youll stay that idiotically stupid all your life.
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
Looks like Josh "one room dungeon" Sawyer wanted a new nickname to keep Patel's Pratfall from getting one.
:lol:

It's still Patel's Pratfall more than anything. Assuming she's responsible for the story and most of the writing, that is.

Huh, another old thread with interesting posts.

Uh. Well, we are in the popamole forum.
Nice foreshadowing. :lol:
Josh Sawyer presents: Project Eternity: A Josh Sawyer Production is going to be a million times better of course.
Didn't happen, but to be fair, it was a relatively common prediction at the time.
True, but it's still the best D&D ruleset and will continue to remain so when Next is released.
2013 Roguey was a 4E fanboy?
rating_prosper.png
 

ScrotumBroth

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
1,288
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
I read somewhere on this forum her quote that she was filling in writing where needed and just did all around hole filling.

So, who will own up to making executive decisions on the overall writing?
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
Patron
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
2,008
Location
Souffrance, Franka
So is blindness an affliction then?
why yeah it's a PER affliction max rank
that's right, rogues start with a rank 3 affliction and can use it at cost one
edit : missed a whole page, nvm

These "one room dungeons" are actually points of interest (ie gods' shrines) more than dungeons.
 
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IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,123
My theory on the ship combat is that Sawyer's historical obsessions got the better of him and he thought people would appreciate a system that somewhat attempts to be realistic, as opposed to system that is...well, fun to play.

Because it's not that ship mechanics are primitive and barebones. On the contrary, they are actually more complex than I expected. If you look at something like Nantucket, a similar style CYOA naval game, Deadfire isn't' far behind in terms of depth. But Nantucket is fun and Deadfire is a borefest.

Another issue is that obviously they want naval combat to be easy, because if you lose it's permadeath for entire party and game over screen. If people are being deleted by random pirate ships 5 minutes after they leave tutorial island, it's gonna be refund galore.

All that being said, to claim that ship worse than Cad Nua is beyond moronic. Cad Nua was a Facebook minigame and a pointless money drain that served absolutely no purpose at all. Ship at least gets you form place to place and has some action and events build around it, couple pirate ships have unique loot, too.

Plus you get to kill Feargus and throw his corpse to sharks, which is always a nice bonus.
 
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FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
A ship duel just amounts to bigger ship with more cannons outclassing the other. Outmanoeuvring a bigger ship with a small ship is not something that can be done easily on a one-on-one confrontation, and really an extraordinary situation. Smaller ships' advantage only really comes to play in groups where they can swarm and outgun the enemy ship by virtue of speed and numbers.

The problem is they probably should have gone for that with more difference between types of ships, so getting your bigger ship and being able to hunt down some of the enemy ships you had to avoid earlier would be fun, but as it is there is no reason to even ever change your ship. So by attempting to please both people that wanted it and people that didn't want anything to do with it, they ruined it for everyone. They could have just made it so you can avoid bigger enemy ships by sailing away faster than they can chase.
 
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Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
So telemetry showed that many people played rogue/cipher, I hope they don't nerf it or at least I will be able to end walkthrough before they will nerf this combination into depts of Oblivion.
I was playing on PotD very slowly and thinking about increasing difficulty. And my thought was: if there would be more mobs - it will be too much for location. If enemies will be more challenging it should be logical, most enemies have protections against certain afflictions already and if they get more - it would be overdose (in another words not all enemies should be immune to all afflictions). Increasing armor rating, hp and damage - just boring. Many encounters with kith have different classes and even combinations of classes, just like player. Something wrong with me and I missing something important? How increasing difficulty should be done without breaking immersion in game? Any expert's opinion on this? And please don't start "blah, blah blah game have no immersion" we all know that bugs casters who cast spells of priest/mage/druid in 0 seconds are as much bad for game as bad writing.

P.S. Please if you didn't played the game and just want banter about difficulty - tell me with all honesty, I just don't want spend my time arguing with man who didn't played game and work on codex as "generator-nitpicker3000" from different platforms, who have no life and codex trolls his only listeners. Oh wait, I have already spend much time in debates with Lacrymas, never mind then.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,380
Location
Brazil
This is a "shoulda coulda woulda" suggestion but it would be nice if the ship combat took advantage of the lore of the setting in the game, and how the classes and the party could interact in these situations.

In Deadfire we learn that:
1) Ciphers are used by pirates as ship-hunters and their mind control powers are very useful in these situations
2) Part of the power of the Huana faction is the water-shapers unique abilities and the damage they can do against ships by controlling the tides, even huge ones like Rautai's junks

And yet Serafen and Teheku don't get unique opportunities in ship combat to help

All the ship combat should have been reduced in number but made effort to be more unique, in those cool CYOA style segments, and both your crew and the enemy could take advantage of PoE classes to make things more interesting (A Ranger could try to snipe a member of enemy crew and one of theirs could do the same to you, a Druid could charm a whale underwater to ram the enemy ship, a Fighter could coordinate a better boarding assault than the enemy, etc etc, the potential is there)
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
This is a "shoulda coulda woulda" suggestion but it would be nice if the ship combat took advantage of the lore of the setting in the game, and how the classes and the party could interact in these situations.

It's something they can still do, it's essentially numbers fiddling and if they want to maybe an UI picture change. Adding couple more ship types would only be "hard" from a matter of making models, rest is mathematical balance that can be done in a single day.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
All that being said, to claim that ship worse than Cad Nua is beyond moronic. Cad Nua was a Facebook minigame and a pointless money drain that served absolutely no purpose at all. Ship at least gets you form place to place and has some action and events build around it, couple pirate ships have unique loot, too.
I agree that ship better in terms of mobility, but hey I liked Kaed-Nua too (maybe because I didn't played Facebook apps I dunno). Or to be precise, I liked an IDEA of personal keep under your banner. Maybe I am alone in this, but I think it's logical that any successful adventurer would have shitload gold and enemies who want revenge or took your gold, so it's better to have a fucking walls to back up you. Realization of this in Kaed-Nua was not ideal at all, but we have what we have (or had before adra giant destroyed it). Just decorative addition, nothing more & nothing less.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
This is a "shoulda coulda woulda" suggestion but it would be nice if the ship combat took advantage of the lore of the setting in the game, and how the classes and the party could interact in these situations.

In Deadfire we learn that:
1) Ciphers are used by pirates as ship-hunters and their mind control powers are very useful in these situations
2) Part of the power of the Huana faction is the water-shapers unique abilities and the damage they can do against ships by controlling the tides, even huge ones like Rautai's junks

And yet Serafen and Teheku don't get unique opportunities in ship combat to help

All the ship combat should have been reduced in number but made effort to be more unique, in those cool CYOA style segments, and both your crew and the enemy could take advantage of PoE classes to make things more interesting (A Ranger could try to snipe a member of enemy crew and one of theirs could do the same to you, a Druid could charm a whale underwater to ram the enemy ship, a Fighter could coordinate a better boarding assault than the enemy, etc etc, the potential is there)
Agreed about using ciphers and water-shapers, also it would be nice to use cipher powers of MAIN character for ship-hunting (I don't like Serafen much). In my opinion race choices of water godlike (like Teheku) and avian (like Pallegina) would be good addition too (not fan of mutants, just they exist in lore, so why not). About water-shaping - they fit as subclass for main character in game system, but for which class it's another question.
 

Jezal_k23

Guest
A ship duel just amounts to bigger ship with more cannons outclassing the other. Outmanoeuvring a bigger ship with a small ship is not something that can be done easily on a one-on-one confrontation, and really an extraordinary situation.

Must I quote myself?

So, ship combat is incredibly trivial once you get the hang of it.

My ship is clearly inferior and I still feel like I can defeat EVERYTHING with a little bit of luck, and otherwise getting into range asap, then hold -> fire -> jibe -> hold -> fire -> jibe -> ... forever with the starting ship until the enemy inevitably dies. I also always go for the hull, fuck everything else. I cause a shitstorm in their ship pretty quickly with the standard cannonball shot.

kr06f2x.jpg


The ship I defeated had like 4 cannons on each side, and I still fucked it up using the strategy I mentioned above. I don't know how much tougher ships can get, but right now I feel invincible with the starting ship and iron thunderer cannons.

It's not extraordinary at all. Pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

You can probably get away with anything once you know how to disable the shit out of their crew so they spend all their turns cycling the crew while their ship is flooding, on fire, everyone hurt and generally a huge shitstorm inside where they don't know what the fuck to do because they know they're doomed.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
A ship duel just amounts to bigger ship with more cannons outclassing the other. Outmanoeuvring a bigger ship with a small ship is not something that can be done easily on a one-on-one confrontation, and really an extraordinary situation. Smaller ships' advantage only really comes to play in groups where they can swarm and outgun the enemy ship by virtue of speed and numbers.

Or where they have a sufficiently daring commander. I tell myself that my Watcher is the Thomas Cochrane of the Deadfire. Naturally I renamed the starter ship Speedy.


One of his most notable exploits was the capture of the Spanish xebec frigate El Gamoon 6 May 1801. El Gamo carried 32 guns and 319 men, compared with Speedy's 14 guns and 54 men.[11][12] Cochrane flew an American flag and approached so closely to El Gamo that its guns could not depress to fire on the Speedy's hull. The Spanish tried to board and take over the ship but, whenever they were about to board, Cochrane pulled away briefly and fired on the concentrated boarding parties with his ship's guns. Eventually, Cochrane boarded El Gamo and captured her, despite being outnumbered about five to one.
 

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