KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[ArchAngel]

Well, to be fair Xenonauts had to struggle with a broken engine. Xeno 2 will be the real Xenonauts me thinks!

Maybe but it will not be the new/old UFO with better graphics that some people want. If I remember correctly Xeno 2 will no longer have air interception like Xeno 1 or UFO.

 

[ArchAngel]

The game could have TUs and still be shit. It's all about the implementation and cohesiveness of all the aspects of the game.
So all the XCOM fanbois that think 2 action system is somehow a breakthrough and a test of innovation should also also step the fuck down.


And the fact is that since the Fig campaign, no other aspect of the game was shown (besides that brief geoscape map generation clip) so we comment on what we get.

2 action system is not a breakthrough but it not shit by default as some people are trying to paint it. It is just what is needed to make sure the game is popular enough so the developers can pay their debts and not get killed by their wives.

 

[Mazisky]

2 action system is 3% of the gameplay.
Before screaming at dumbed down we have to see all the rest, expecially the strategic layer who is supposed to be pretty deep.

 

[Grotesque]

but it not shit by default as some people are trying to paint it.

No, it's a barrel full of shit covered at a top with layer of honey.

It's new and exciting at first but the more you play it, the more you realize (if you have a medium IQ and know better ) the old systems are superior and not limiting.
And all this combined with also the limiting item system of the new XCOM, you must be a retard to say that "it's not shit".

Maybe it's not shit if you want to make money and appeal to the fratboi who will forget about your game in three days.
Numberz and complex systems are hard.

 

[ArchAngel]

but it not shit by default as some people are trying to paint it.

No, it's a barrel full of shit covered at a top with layer of honey.

It's new and exciting at first but the more you play it, the more you realize (if you have a medium IQ and know better ) the old systems are superior and not limiting.
And all this combined with also the limiting item system of the new XCOM, you must be a retard to say that "it's not shit".

Maybe it's not shit if you want to make money and appeal to the fratboi who will forget about your game in three days.
Numberz and complex systems are hard.

Why are you mentioning nuXcom here? We are talking about 2AP system, the other faults of nuXcom are a separate problem. One that PP is fixing.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

What makes you think it wants to differentiate itself from XCOM (at least in terms of presentation)? It's obvious Gollop wants to piggyback on the success of nuXCOM, a level of success he never had with his own games. I doubt most nuXCOM players even played the original X-COM game and if they did, I doubt they cared for its more simulationist design.

Of all the things to copy from XCOM it's presentation would be the worst. It ain't like it had some great HUD design that people were talking about like Persona 5, or that it integrated such things in an interesting way like Dead Space, it's not even a UI that was particularly elegant to interact with. And that's just shit related to the HUB, worst was they abandoned the original's cool comic book stylization with its Gambit head sock, Guile/JoJo hair (although that did make it in) and Masamune Shirow styled armors in favor of some third rate generic Gears of War knockoff look. XCOM did well despite looking like some cheap XBOX Live game without any sense of visual style. The game's one big stylistic stroke was oddly the base side cutaway view...odd because it destroyed the possibility of actual base attacks, and because you can do a cool looking cutaway views top-down too.

I'm still waiting for one of these to have death animations like Fallout 1 & 2.

 

[Mazisky]

What makes you think it wants to differentiate itself from XCOM (at least in terms of presentation)? It's obvious Gollop wants to piggyback on the success of nuXCOM, a level of success he never had with his own games. I doubt most nuXCOM players even played the original X-COM game and if they did, I doubt they cared for its more simulationist design.

Of all the things to copy from XCOM it's presentation would be the worst. It ain't like it had some great HUD design that people were talking about like Persona 5, or that it integrated such things in an interesting way like Dead Space, it's not even a UI that was particularly elegant to interact with. And that's just shit related to the HUB, worst was they abandoned the original's cool comic book stylization with its Gambit head sock, Guile/JoJo hair (although that did make it in) and Masamune Shirow styled armors in favor of some third rate generic Gears of War knockoff look. XCOM did well despite looking like some cheap XBOX Live game without any sense of visual style. The game's one big stylistic stroke was oddly the base side cutaway view...odd because it destroyed the possibility of actual base attacks, and because you can do a cool looking cutaway views top-down too.

I'm still waiting for one of these to have death animations like Fallout 1 & 2.

I guess for PP copying Nuxcom presentation it was intended stuff like modern graphics and visuals, not the art style. That is a complete different thing, altough i agree for the most with your claims

 

[Grotesque]

Beautiful Desolation - work in progress


I never thought that in this day and age a developer would make this type of UI anymore, and not those flat, for tablet finger mashing, insipid & blunt UI that you find at every corner today.

After seeing the first footage with the combat gameplay of PP, I even felt stupid I dared to hope it will have at least something more original.

 

[Shog-goth]

Always the same story: the presence or lack of time units is considered by someone the most important feature in the game, to the point that even if a game is good but lacks time units it will be considered shit.

Just to be clear: I don't think that PP will be a bad game just because of AP, but I simply prefer the greater flexibility, granularity and depth allowed by TU. I signed up for a UFO "spiritual successor" not for a XCOM "done right" and this is a cornerstone mechanic to figure out the final result...

 

[Mazisky]

Beautiful Desolation - work in progress



I never thought that in this day and age a developer would make this type of UI anymore, and not those flat, for tablet finger mashing, insipid & blunt UI that you find at every corner today.

After seeing the first footage with the combat gameplay of PP, I even felt stupid I dared to hope it will have at least something more original.

That UI is cool but it feels like a game from 90'. Not sure i want this. Maybe u should just play old games.

 

[Freddie]

Beautiful Desolation - work in progress


I never thought that in this day and age a developer would make this type of UI anymore, and not those flat, for tablet finger mashing, insipid & blunt UI that you find at every corner today.

After seeing the first footage with the combat gameplay of PP, I even felt stupid I dared to hope it will have at least something more original.

You know, for the user friendly GUI amount of functions needed for XCOM type of game can't work with that.

Yep, you know it. Well played though.

 

[Grotesque]

for the user friendly GUI amount of functions needed for XCOM type of game can't work with that.

So you can't have functionality and artistic flair in a UI?
I think you're confused

 

[Mazisky]

You are complaining about the aesthetic of the UI when the most important thing should be funcionality.

This is the dumbest complain i've ever heard about a game. Well done

Next game u'll gonna complain that the moon texture has too many craters.

 

[Freddie]

for the user friendly GUI amount of functions needed for XCOM type of game can't work with that.

So you can't have functionality and artistic flair in a UI?
I think you're confused

Well, I recall UFO and how there were separate buttons for everything, it was very well designed GUI for what they were aiming for and supported the game play. It's a great game, you should try it someday. Anyway, now, what I have seen from PP GUI it's aiming for exactly the same thing, with the functions needed for that game. Flow...

I don't know UFO was new thing in many ways when it came out. The whole computer gaming on PC was still much more potential market than what we have today. Today we have a culture. You don't exactly need to do the idiot GUI for GUI to be user friendly. How many clicks for player to reach his intended actions. How much screen space we sacrifice... etc. economy.

But you know that... Went bit too far with this, got confused or something?

 

[GarfunkeL]

2 action system is not a breakthrough but it not shit by default

Yes it is. It's the most retarded confession to dumb fucks since RTwP was made for idiots who couldn't comprehend turn-based. Firaxis used it literally because the modern casual gamer cannot into simple arithmetics. Similar how they fudged the RNG to favor the player instead of being truly random. It's the biggest problem in the new Shadowrun games and if PP uses it or something similar, it cannot but fuck things up. When moving one tile/hex/square/meter is the same as moving ten tiles/hexes/squares/meters, it's fucked up.

 

[ArchAngel]

2 action system is not a breakthrough but it not shit by default

Yes it is. It's the most retarded confession to dumb fucks since RTwP was made for idiots who couldn't comprehend turn-based. Firaxis used it literally because the modern casual gamer cannot into simple arithmetics. Similar how they fudged the RNG to favor the player instead of being truly random. It's the biggest problem in the new Shadowrun games and if PP uses it or something similar, it cannot but fuck things up. When moving one tile/hex/square/meter is the same as moving ten tiles/hexes/squares/meters, it's fucked up.

Well PP does not have that. You can move 1 tile at a time if you want and still fire when you used all your move points.

Maybe we misunderstood each other. That part of 2AP from nuXcom was retarded and their pod system+free move after activation only made it worse.

Part that I don't have a problem with is that you can shoot once or twice, or move twice or move certain amount and shoot once. Since D&D has worked like that for years well enough so can Xcom.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Well PP does not have that. You can move 1 tile at a time if you want and still fire when you used all your move points.

NO, fuck no!
Character can move 1 tile at a time up to a distance that is dictated by its stats and wielded weapon and then fire, or it can sprint up to max movement distance (which will probably be modified by carried equipment).

 

[ArchAngel]

Well PP does not have that. You can move 1 tile at a time if you want and still fire when you used all your move points.

NO, fuck no!
Character can move 1 tile at a time up to a distance that is dictated by its stats and wielded weapon and then fire, or it can sprint up to max movement distance (which will probably be modified by carried equipment).

That is what I said as well with less words.

 

[Grotesque]

You are complaining about the aesthetic of the UI when the most important thing should be funcionality.

u'll

No wonder you're one of those new wave cretins with the artistic sensibilities of a frozen onion and that expects that everything in life should be about how easy is to attain something above all else.
I bet that if you see a shit on the street, you stress about the spoon with which you eat it and how it has to have the right volume for you not to consume too much energy bringing it to your mouth.

 

[ChaDargo]

You are complaining about the aesthetic of the UI when the most important thing should be funcionality.

No wonder you're one of those new wave cretins with the artistic sensibilities of a frozen onion and that expects that everything in life should be about how easy is to attain something above all else. ...

Form follows function... but there still needs to be some form to it, some style, and preferably not an almost identical form and style to two horrible new XCom games (tbh, only played NucomEU). Doesn't mean one dismisses this different attempt by completely different people, hence why I follow this thread, but complaints can and should still be expressed. Your hostility, Mazisky, makes no sense.

I didn't particularly like the big battle with the boss spider lady, but I understand that it's not finished at all and can/will get much better in the final product. But I better not say anything about it! I have to wait until the game is finished and has 2 expansions before I comment on my problems with its design, right?

2 action system is 3% of the gameplay.
Before screaming at dumbed down we have to see all the rest, expecially the strategic layer who is supposed to be pretty deep.

Or we could scream while waiting for what's supposed to be coming? Or maybe even analyze claims and break down how realistic or honest they are? Or maybe even offer alternative suggestions? Nah? Just stfu and wait for the game? Did you back this thing or something?

 

[Grotesque]

Lets hear some more from about half the target audience after the brilliant decision to clone the UI style and emulate the looks/gameplay.
If I were Gollop, I would give myself a pat on the back for approving this and a one way trip to Bermuda Isles to the employee with the marvelous idea.

If you want the fanbois and enthusiast supporters of a franchise to buy your game, tread lightly!

 

[ArchAngel]

So 10 random people that commented negatively on youtube are half the target audience now?!
You are try harding way too much now.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Backed this game, will play it. Can't wait for it to come out.

 

[ChaDargo]

So 10 random people that commented negatively on youtube are half the target audience now?!
You are try harding way too much now.

I'm not sure of the dev's target audience or if their intention is to reach Nucom fans by using such a derivative look (I doubt it). But those 10 random people aren't wrong in their observations and there will be more who notice and dislike it. But I imagine the devs intend to change things up as they continue to progress.

I sure hope they do at least for the sake of my eyes when I buy the game or at least try it out

 

[PanteraNera]

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/02/20/watch-julian-gollop-play-his-xcom-like-phoenix-point/

HeavyStorm says:
I’m surprised – the game is not “like” xcom, which I expected, it’s more like a xcom mod! Did I miss something, is he working for Firaxis now?
I expected to have a game that felt more like the oldies (UFO and Terror From The Deep), since developed those games…

Gothnak says:
I agree and find it a little sad.
Xcom is very big budget and has a certain style and feel. It looks like this game is replicating almost every aspect of that and trying to do a few things differently.
I’d rather Mr Gollop had looked at Xcom from the ground up and worked out what it was doing well and badly and decided to innovate in a few more areas and maybe make it look a LOT less exactly like the other game.
This doesn’t mean the game will be bad, it just means everyone who buys it has to have room for two XComs in their library instead of 2 different games.

Laurentius says:
Hmm, I feel a bit of disappointment. Cramped spaces, few soldiers, reliance on cover feels way too “xcomy” then I would like. Where is my TFTD skirmish line?

Ur-Quan says:
Unfortunately that choice made the game look a lot more like a straight up copy of the Xcom remake.
Seriously if someone told me this was an Xcom mod I wouldn’t even doubt him.
You should definitely try to show more of the differences in future gameplay demos.

upupup says:
I dunno. I like the parts where the game is doing its own thing and I don’t like the parts where it’s trying to be nuXcom. Both nuXcom games I disliked for overly simplifying the gameplay and for going for a cinematic, heroic tone, to the point of letting you practically build goofy superhero teams and having villains that taunt you and swear revenge. The more they stay away from that, the more I’ll like it.

Banks says:
I feel that they are aiming in the wrong direction.

fearandloathing says:
I was very keen on the game, but after the success of Xcom2 in re-inventing itself, especially with DLCs (which I’m yet to play), I fear PP may slip into irrelevance at the time it’s released. Still, its strategical part, as far as we know, is miles ahead of xcom2’s, and that’s what interests me most. Sad to see that they couldn’t make the tactical game feel different though. I certainly agree that there is no need to differentiate from Xcom2 just for the sake of it, but maybe a more different art style would help. Animations especially are annoyingly similar.