Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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KickStarter Phoenix Point, the next game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. Space Satangender: ⚧ Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Fire in Long War 2 was imba as fuck. Enemies can't use skills, can't fire, can't melee. It was the most powerful effect of them all that rendered enemy defunct just by hitting them.
     
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  2. ArchAngelgender: ⚧ Magister

    ArchAngel
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    It was already like that in vanilla Xcom 2. Long War 2 in next patch is actually nerfing it a bit (and already did in this patch by reducing AoE of it to very low).
     
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  3. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Auto-Cannons with incendiaries were pretty much my emergency button. Bailed me out of many sure TPKs.
     
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  4. Make America Great Again Taka-Haradin puolipeikkogender: ⚧ Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Ok.
    I've backed it now.
     
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  5. LESS T_Tgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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  6. Lamprosgender: ⚧ Literate

    Lampros
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    Looks awesome.
     
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  7. Make America Great Again Taka-Haradin puolipeikkogender: ⚧ Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
    https://www.egx.net/egx/news/legendary-game-designer-julian-gollop-to-speak-at-egx

     
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  8. Make America Great Again Taka-Haradin puolipeikkogender: ⚧ Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    http://forums.snapshotgames.com/thread/realistic-ballistics-progress-report/

     
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  9. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
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    Maybe I'm crazy or something, but I'm not seeing the "issues" here. I'm all for gamism, but if there's one thing tabletop games do right, it's that they explicate the rules but let players figure out for themselves how the mechanics synergise with one another.

    CBT solved this issue perfectly, and those rules are over 20 years old now.

    EDIT: Jimmious If it's CBT, you can see the modifier tables here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables#Attack_Modifiers_Table. If it's for the first part about tabletop games, well pretty much every tabletop tactics game leaves it to players to figure things out, which is why you have guides for probabilities and optimisation.
     
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  10. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    The thing to remember is the shooting mechanics of Phoenix Point aren't like a board game. Sure, you have a stat that determines your accuracy, and you have a dice roll to determine if the shot goes off target, and by how much - but it doesn't rely on positive/negative modifiers like NuXCom. Whether or not a shot connects it dependent on if the simulated projectile actually makes contact with the target. The issue is making a simulation like that work with a moving target before all of the targets are technically stationary in a turn based game.
     
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  11. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
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    I see your point; I guess it's about choosing what to abstract and what to simulate. Given that movement is tied in with the time aspect, which already is an abstraction in itself by being turn-baesd, it might just have to come down to a numbers game in the end, as far as emulating attacker aim vs target movement is concerned.
     
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  12. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    Overall, we'd sooner just not worry about a moving target mechanic, than have to introduce board game-like modifiers to have to make it work. On of the great things about computer games is that you can have mechanics work in a much more complicated way than with a board game. We really want to make the most of this, and make something closer to good, old-fashioned X-Com.
     
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  13. Raapysgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raapys
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    Assuming enemies are wider than they are 'thick'(i.e. like a humanoid), then they'll be presenting a much smaller silhouette when running(perpendicularly to your firing vector) and thus be harder to shoot with the current mechanics, no?

    On the other hand, that could presumably be exploited by both players and AI when no cover is available; rotate until you are sideways to the enemy to minimize the chance of getting hit?
     
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  14. Cyberarmygender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Cyberarmy
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    "We have implemented a 'realistic ballistics' system which works in a similar way to the original X-COMs. It does make combat quite fun. Each bullet has a separate trajectory and damage whatever it hits."


    :love::love::love::love::love:
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Alienmangender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    It sounds good but I'm still a bit confused.

    wut? There is just one thing I would like to know. If I place my guy behind a solid 1 meter thick wall, will he be safe or can he still be killed because it's simulated that he pops his head out and in of cover or something?
     
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  16. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    If there's enough of him sticking out to hit, he can be hit. If it's possible for a bullet to path to the target, you can still hit them (though of course to more them behind cover, the less likely it is to hit).
     
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  17. Make America Great Again Alienmangender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    So my guys will always stick something out?
     
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  18. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

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    I guess they should have a way to tell your guy to be fully in cover but with some other disadvantages when he does that
     
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  19. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    (My insert quotes doesn't work anymore).

    But yeah, each piece of cover will be different depending on its size and shape. This is why the manual fine tuning system is added to aiming. You can look around to see if anything is poking out from behind cover and try to hit it.
     
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  20. Make America Great Again Alienmangender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Okay, from how I understand it, it will have nuXcom cover mechanics but you can free aim, and bullets will be an actual thing in the world.
     
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  21. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    There will be indicators to let the player know how "good/bad" the cover is. If it's high cover or low cover etc. But cover won't just be a -% chance to hit against a dice roll like NuXCom. It's an actual physical barrier that may or may not intercept the projectile depending on the path it takes.
     
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  22. Zombragender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    UnstableVoltage

    I guess the question is, how will my guys behave in turn-based? If I put my 6' guy behind a 7' iron wall, no parts of him will be sticking out. But on his turn he will lean out to fire at an alien. When my turn ends, will my guy be leaning exposed around the wall? Or will he be safe and sound behind 7' of iron? Will "overwatch" fire be allowed in order to shoot an enemy at the moment of maximum exposure? Will it trigger the instant a single pixel peeks out? We all get that bullet paths will be realistically modeled, which is great, but that raises more gameplay questions than it answers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  23. Make America Great Again Latrogender: ⚧ Arcane

    Latro
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    hype slowly rising...
     
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  24. udmgender: ⚧ Prophet Patron

    udm
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    Alright UnstableVoltage, you've convinced me to back at the Collector's Edition tier, which I'll do when I get paid.

    By the way, purely out of curiosity, what are your favourite tabletop games? Also, do folks at Snapshot get together for PnP?
     
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  25. UnstableVoltagegender: ⚧ Snapshot Games Developer

    UnstableVoltage
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    Sadly, I've been unfortunate enough never to really get into tabletop games. I guess not having any siblings was part of that. I was purely into computer games as I grew up, and I still am. The guys at Snapshot do play stuff together (and Julian was making his own board games before computer games). It's not something I join in with though, on account of being 1500 miles away!
     
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