KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Jimmious]

Ok now I actually watched the gameplay video too. It looks like a mod of XCOM 2 to be honest. I understand the frustration of Alienman . I don't mind too much since I enjoyed the nuXCOMs but I was hoping for something more unique from Gollop.
It's very early though, that's my main hope.

*Pretty ridiculous to have an ability called "Gun and Run" which does almost the same thing as the "Run and Gun" of nuXCOM. To the level of a cheap replica ridiculous.

So you also understand how being a fool feels? Because only a fool makes stupid assumptions based on a video that has more than half promised features missing. This game is not even in Alpha state the moment.
And Gun and Run does not do what Run and Gun does. It does exactly the opposite. It lets you move and shoot and then move again. Run and Gun lets you 2x move and then shoot.

So you find it normal that there is an ability called Gun and Run which does the "opposite" of Run and Gun?
And that all icons are more or less the same with XCOM? Yellow face for alien flanked, red for not flanked, grey for visible by teammates but not the specific soldier? Half shield for half cover, full shield for full?
The same circle for grenades? The same movement "line"? The same "two weapons" which you can swap for each soldier?
Hell even the mission objectives are in the same way written and positioned.

 

[Freddie]

I don't mind the Firaxis-like interface, familiarity with a popular game will bring in more customers. These things are extremely important to me:

1. A proper line of sight and detection system. If my soldier hasn't been personally detected by the enemy he should be invisible to them.
2. No pod activation mechanic. By far the worst feature of the Firaxis XCOM games.
3. A proper ballistics system.
4. Deep strategic layer with meaningful choices and consequences.

If they can deliver on those then they can copy as much of the nuXCOM look as they like. I already pledged anyway because I really believe than Gollop can make a great game. At worst he will make a nuXCOM clone with slightly worse graphics and better gameplay, which I would be ok with. At best he will deliver a truly great tactical game which I would be elated to play.

Pretty much what I think of this as well.

Hah, really? I guess they've very much intentionally replicated nuXCOM as a baseline prototype to expand from.

Couple of things I came to think.

Gollop's choice pretty much makes sense to me, because the most important thing and responsibility to backers is to DELIVER. Now it may very well happen that project doesn't meet points for additional features, but I think economic choice to use concept that already exists it's huge time (and time = money) saver so I think that's one piece which would have made creating all that additional content and delivering on time actually practical possibility.

Also what comes to video, using elements that are already familiar to largest possible audience was IMO good choice. You see how stuff works, interface, movement etc. you don't need to waste time for that stuff and can instead bring up new features like targeting different body parts / systems, enemy attack mechanics and how hitting different parts can influence bleeding and other things other people have brought up in their messages already.

Ultimately, I get impression that Gollop's own game here is to create turn based 'spiritual' sequel to X-Com with some old and new features without turning tactical combat time sink, which would narrow target group, which would mean less potential buyers. It's just that there are so only so many people with purchasing power who have time and patience for playing a campaign for like half a year to get anywhere.

What I think now, is that if Gollop manages to get his own game right, game will find wider market, make nice profit and if that happens we may even get a sequel.

That said, better deliver those ballistics, stealth mechanics, etc.

 

[ArchAngel]

Ok now I actually watched the gameplay video too. It looks like a mod of XCOM 2 to be honest. I understand the frustration of Alienman . I don't mind too much since I enjoyed the nuXCOMs but I was hoping for something more unique from Gollop.
It's very early though, that's my main hope.

*Pretty ridiculous to have an ability called "Gun and Run" which does almost the same thing as the "Run and Gun" of nuXCOM. To the level of a cheap replica ridiculous.

So you also understand how being a fool feels? Because only a fool makes stupid assumptions based on a video that has more than half promised features missing. This game is not even in Alpha state the moment.
And Gun and Run does not do what Run and Gun does. It does exactly the opposite. It lets you move and shoot and then move again. Run and Gun lets you 2x move and then shoot.

So you find it normal that there is an ability called Gun and Run which does the "opposite" of Run and Gun?
And that all icons are more or less the same with XCOM? Yellow face for alien flanked, red for not flanked, grey for visible by teammates but not the specific soldier? Half shield for half cover, full shield for full?
The same circle for grenades? The same movement "line"? The same "two weapons" which you can swap for each soldier?
Hell even the mission objectives are in the same way written and positioned.

Why not use a familiar and good UI. Only thing that is a placeholder for sure is two weapon icons as the released game will have a proper inventory.
The rest? I don't see a problem.

 

[Grotesque]

Pheonix Point, the Long War mod for Firaxis's XCOM 3: Terror Fom the Deep spin-off.

 

[27]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/6fpzoo/questions_and_answers_from_julian_during/

Q&A transcript from the latest stream with Julian.

A few quotes concerning ballistic system:

"Q: Will the bodies of dead enemies be persistent? Can you cover behind dead enemies?
JG: Covering behind dead enemies will be a thing with our new “realistic ballistics” system.

Q: How does the low/high cover system interact with the physics bullets?
JG: A realistic ballistics system has a major impact on the cover system. We will be implementing ballistics next, so you will get to see how it works soon.

(...) Realistic ballistics system will be based on X-Com: Apocalypse algorithms."

 

[Darth Roxor]

and yet for all the realistix ballistix all they have to show is nu-nuxcom

 

[thesheeep]

People here are not really good at grasping the concept of "in development", are they?

 

[Darth Roxor]

wake up sheeple

 

[Excidium II]

If it's not supposed to be representative why bother showing.

 

[Achilles]

They wanted to show some gameplay to increase pledges.

 

[luinthoron]

So you find it normal that there is an ability called Gun and Run which does the "opposite" of Run and Gun?
And that all icons are more or less the same with XCOM? Yellow face for alien flanked, red for not flanked, grey for visible by teammates but not the specific soldier? Half shield for half cover, full shield for full?
The same circle for grenades? The same movement "line"? The same "two weapons" which you can swap for each soldier?
Hell even the mission objectives are in the same way written and positioned.

Fun fact - the Gun and Run ability also exists in many XCOM 2 mods. And I see no reason to name it anything else when people already know it as such.
Similarly, there's nothing wrong with using other similar display conventions that the players are already familiar with.
And, of course, all of this is still subject to change in the final game.
Two weapons is a less fun part of the demo, but proper inventory management has already been confirmed for the final game, so I would not be too worried about that in a pre-alpha demo that in addition to this only features three different pre-made soldiers.

If it's not supposed to be representative why bother showing.

It's not representative of all systems, but it showcases the ability to target different body parts, the return fire system, and various other abilities of your soldiers and the aliens.

 

[Israfael]

Lack of backbones (proper ballistics / FOVs and other things) make it hard to believe it was possible to showcase anything without having such a groundbase, which makes me a little bit worried. Otherwise it's just a scam like the infamous Radiant AI showcase at E3 2005 or basically every Stalker SHOC demos / showcases

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Someone redpill me on nuXcom, y u guise no likey?

 

[ArchAngel]

Someone redpill me on nuXcom, y u guise no likey?

It is not like old UFO. That is where their logic stops.
But it has its good and bad sides.

 

[thesheeep]

If it's not supposed to be representative why bother showing.

If you have not implemented ballistics yet but a simpler system to showcase or focus on other development areas, you are supposed to not show what you have, because it will not be just like that in the final product?
During not-even-alpha?
During a funding campaign?

This isn't a preorder marketing shtick with everything set in stone already.
You gotta sell me some of your shit, because sometimes I would like to detach myself that much from reality, too.

 

[ArchAngel]

BTW there was another live stream of the demo, this time while chatting with Gollop.
Video is here:

 

[Jimmious]

Here's mr Gollop's answer to my comment about the game being way too similar to XCOM2:

JulianG
DEVELOPER

While the presentation may look somewhat similar to XCOM2 the functionality of the interface and game mechanics are different. Phoenix Point will have an inventory system. You select a weapon or item of equipment to use, and the action zone updates based on the action point cost for using the item. Although the IGN video doesn't show it, you will see from UnstableVoltage's videos that there is an implicit Time Units system rather than the 2 action point system of XCOM 2. The yellow/red flanking lines and cover system are going to change once we implement the new realistic ballistics system.

Spoiler

 

[ArchAngel]

The last video I posted Master Gollop said their strategic layer will be heavily influenced by 4x games and then name dropped Master of Orion and Alpha Centauri as main influences

 

[luinthoron]

A couple of Gollop comments from the replies to the latest update, specifically on soldier deployment and difficulty:

The deployment system in the demo is for testing purposes only - however, the final game will have deployment options based on transportation type, advance intelligence, character abilities, and so on.

On the difficulty question - I don't know how UV managed to lose it! The AI and alien abilies are still fairly basic - in particular the queen doesn't have much AI yet. In the final game boss monsters will be able to tear down walls and buildings to root your soldiers out and they will have many different abilities and AI modules.

 

[Grotesque]

Someone redpill me on nuXcom, y u guise no likey?

trolling effort: 2/10 stars

and then name dropped Master of Orion and Alpha Centauri as main influence

he must be really desperate

 

[luinthoron]

Campaign update 18:

With just a short time left, we would like to thank you for backing our campaign - it has been a fantastic experience, and great to read all of your comments.

UnstableVoltage conducted a live stream of the demo with questions answered by Julian.

He has posted a summary of the questions and answers here

UnstableVoltage will also officially be joining the Snapshot team as our community manager. He will help us to communicate the development process to backers, and gather your feedback for the dev team here at Snapshot Games.

Here is a final burst of amazing fiction from our writing team:

Towards Freedom, by Jonas Kyratzes

Harbinger, by Allen Stroud

Dotada, by Thomas Turnbull-Ross

The Horror Awaits
On earth in 2047 you may find something like this. Slavi has created an awesome concept to round off our campaign. Sleep well!

 

[Excidium II]

If it's not supposed to be representative why bother showing.

If you have not implemented ballistics yet but a simpler system to showcase or focus on other development areas, you are supposed to not show what you have, because it will not be just like that in the final product?
During not-even-alpha?
During a funding campaign?

This isn't a preorder marketing shtick with everything set in stone already.
You gotta sell me some of your shit, because sometimes I would like to detach myself that much from reality, too.

Ballistics is sort of an important thing to have implemented. This demo is more like a showcase of art assets than of gameplay.

 

[27]

Jullian was supposedly against releasing a video so soon but UV (that new community manager) convinced him it's better to show any gameplay before the campaign's end - and people will understand that it's just an early, unfinished, and placeholder-ish build, only vaugely resembling the finished product. Considering the reactions outside the codex, can't say he was wrong.

The reason why they made the demo at all without the mysterious ballistic system is supposedly that it already allows them to work on AI - which they see as one of the main long-term challenges. But considering how rudimentary AI is right now and how soon is the ballistic system supposed to be implemented, I'm not sure if that was such a good trade.

In the end, though, they could show *something* with simplified shooting mechanics - whey wouldn't be able to show gameplay without any AI.

 

[Excidium II]

Considering the reactions outside the codex, can't say he was wrong.

People are content with "gameplay" footage as long as the visual assets don't look placeholder.

 

[thesheeep]

If it's not supposed to be representative why bother showing.

This isn't a preorder marketing shtick with everything set in stone already.
You gotta sell me some of your shit, because sometimes I would like to detach myself that much from reality, too.

Ballistics is sort of an important thing to have implemented. This demo is more like a showcase of art assets than of gameplay.

I hate to repeat myself, but:

Spoiler

What they did is called prototyping.
You implement a simplified version first to test what works/doesn't and it also allows you to work on other aspects as well.
As I said before, the differences an actual ballistics system makes will be rather minor anyway. Some changes in what you can aim at depending on what is in the way. Some changes to how projectiles behave (especially grenades I imagine, bullets won't drop much at those distances). And all those side effects along the way (hitting enemies behind, etc.). That's it.
Everything else you can already do well enough with a much simpler system.
And that is why they implemented it first... I seriously don't get what's so hard to understand here. It is a perfectly logical choice.