Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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KickStarter Phoenix Point, the next game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. PanteraNera Learned

    PanteraNera
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    Click here and disable ads!
    Lately when ever I read a post from you I have to think about that song:


    Well it is obvious that you are excited about that game, but there is not enough to keep you positively excited. I can understand that ;)
     
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  2. luinthoron Learned

    luinthoron
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    Eh, I'm as disappointed as you by the use of campaign images not just for this here but also for the tactical UI in most of the recent articles, but we do also have the screenshots from their devblog post on the geoscape.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Shog-goth Educated

    Shog-goth
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    Even those two images date back to August '17. After that nothing more was showed, and I consider them more proofs of concept than real screenshots (and found them horrible, BTW).
     
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  4. PanteraNera Learned

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    Well to bring in some facts, the team started end of last year (Oktober/November 2017) to focus on New Jericho and the tactical part of the game for the PCGamer Weekender (mid February 2018) they were not able to include some elements they wanted to (a fourth class, Technician, reworked Larva, new creature "Chiron", functioning vehicle, to mention some). UV said that the geoscape was on hold for that time (still is?). Now another two months later, they basically show the same stuff + free-aim. Maybe UV will make a video of the EGX built (if there is enough additional stuff that was not shown in the EGX presentation). What I can tell from the presentation is: Technician still not in, as well as working vehicle.
    Backer Build One ETA two weeks, will most likely be the same + inventory and procedural-generated maps.

    No news on base building, geoscape, two non-player-factions, player faction, skill-system, class system, inventory-system.

    But seems they do the right thing, as pre-orders keep on rising beyond 100k $ a month.

    I still believe they are not holding back anything (or not much) that they could show.
    I am genuinely puzzled what they are working on (especially the artists) and why there is so little new to show.

    Actually I start to think that maybe Phoenix Point is a project to not closely follow but to forget and maybe (big maybe) it will release Q2 2019 and everyone will be surprised (for the better or worse).

    I personally have still not pre-ordered the game, as I still have no fucking idea were the journey is going.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 11:38 PM
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  5. PanteraNera Learned

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    BTW there is this video that shows a bit more than the dev blog that was just linked by luinthoron

     
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  6. Latelistener Arbiter

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    From what I gathered from the Fig update, specialists are something like second classes to the standard ones.
    You get Heavy at the start, you choose some skills for him and then you turn him into something else (Technician, for example). Yeah, I have a feeling that Technician is the specialist class for New Jericho.

    https://www.fig.co/campaigns/phoenix-point/updates/376

    From the official site.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. PanteraNera Learned

    PanteraNera
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    Oh that is all outdated info.
    Read up on the posts to get up to date: link 1, link 2, link 3
     
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  8. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
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    Not only that, but this ugly red-brown mockup sucks. I wrote to the developers and sent a redesigned color scheme. Since I have work, I didn't bother getting all the colors right, I did them separately :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Shog-goth Educated

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    Thanks, I missed that video. However even this is more than 6 months old and it doesn't add much to what we already know.

    "Excited" doesn't even come close to what I feel about the possibility of a new "X-Com spiritual successor" from JG. But I'm extremely frustated by an amateurish approach to the crowdfunding campaign and this crawling pace of development without apparent steady progress.
     
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  10. luinthoron Learned

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    And Kevin Hill's reply to your rant is still one of the best comments on the devblog. I wonder, did you ever bother to take up his offer to discuss this further via e-mail, or is complaining and coming up with worse color schemes all you can do?
     
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  11. Grotesque Arcane

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    Sorry, but no.


    [​IMG]
    I really like the style and color palette of the prototype but I guess this will be just another conceptual design that will get scrapped.



    I hope they will introduce the need of some kind of aerial interception of hostile forces that attack you, allies or other points of interests even if it will just be in the form of missiles or attack drones.
    Also seeing a hostile human faction settlement getting attacked and then attacking it further while is weakened could be interesting and for a true sense of exploration, the geoscape could be covered in fog of war.
    A mechanic of pinpointing radio signals of different settlements instead of just stumbling onto them while flying would also be interesting, a feature Fargo promised for Wasteland 2 but never acomplished
     
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  12. Shog-goth Educated

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    I really like it too, but sadly I'm also pretty sure that it's just a mockup. It's a shame, because it suits the game theme really well and the devblog ones are simply ugly, even as concepts.

    This would be great.
     
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  13. Shog-goth Educated

    Shog-goth
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    Just found this:

     
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  14. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

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    So, Apocalypse? I think the balance there was acceptable. We got a decent-ish amount of soldiers per week, limited, but soldiers were pretty durable because Megapol armor was quite decent until the aliens got Devastators. We could deploy as many soldiers as was felt like but the game quickly teaches you to employ small teams early on, which grown with the game. Newbie soldiers aren't that bad.

    I also felt the Android soldiers were a bit of a crutch for new players with their awesome stats. I loved having Androids on the team, good stats and no worries about getting Brainsucked.

    I think my favorite Apocalypse moment was when I lost all but six wounded soldiers after a streak of unsucessful missions. Then my base is invaded TWICE, one time after the other - I think the first time by Diablo, the second time by Osiron. Through a heroic effort and judicious application of autocannon HE and IN ammo, we managed to beat the enemy with two wounded soldiers remaining.
     
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  15. Latelistener Arbiter

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    I have serious doubts that the game will come out at the end of 2018, or if it is, with all these features Julian mentioned on EGX.
    I mean, c'mon there is: advanced AI, procedural and random generation, simulated world, destructions, ballistics, etc.
    It's much more than nuXCOM had on release, and he stated that they don't have the resources Firaxis had.
     
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  16. oasis789 Arcane

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    Day and night cycle, whodathunk something as simple as that would be such a sight for sore eyes.
     
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  17. PanteraNera Learned

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    Well to be fair, the tactical part of the game is much better than anyone expected. As far as I can tell pretty much everyone here expected an XCOM 2+ "Julian Gollop edition", even the people that were positive about the game. And than after quit some time of speculation and wrong assumptions UV talked about the hybrid-system in detail and we find out that it is in terms of the TU's very very close to X-Com (while offering just two "actions per turn").

    To me that is a tiny glimpse of hope, that they are actually going to deliver what they are or were talking about in other areas of the game. But yeah with a very very big question mark, because what people keep saying "it might change" or other things "got scraped" holds true as well. There is no guarantee for example for the tactical part that it will work as it is now (could get more complex, or more dumped down). UV said that they are testing multi-shots (so you can move-move, shot-shot, move-shot, use item-shot etc pp) but as he has said it is just a test and could get scrapped if it does work for their liking.

    Their "target audience" on facebook that bring in that whopping 100k+ $ monthly in pre-orders do not seem to care to much about that (which puzzles me very much). But it is very likely that they will have enough money to postbone the release at least for a couple of months (which is all I care for).

    So to sum it up, some things have changed for the better, but there is still a lot of things that are not revealed (or even worked on?) so it is still to early to say if the end-result will be good or bad, closer to XCOM or X-Com. Be a great game, or just a mediocre.

    Also keep in mind that they are expanding their team now, it might change the pacing (I surely hope so).
     
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  18. PanteraNera Learned

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    Yeah, also other bits of information, around their crowdfunding campaign Julian Gollop said n an interview that the Backer Build will be delivered January 2018, than that changed to Q1 2018, than to March, than to late March, than to end of March / beginning of April. And now they want to deliver it on April 30 2018. That is four to five months later.

    About the financial side, Firaxis spent quit some money from their budget on extensive VO and cut-scenes (also they scrapped their initial work that was much much closer to X-Com and completely redid the game-system). Phoenix Point will most likely have neither (that might actually change with the recent success in pre-orders, so far only "some VO" is planned). Also it is said that developing in Bulgaria is a lot cheaper.
     
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  19. Shog-goth Educated

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    [​IMG]

    Is this an official confirmation of multiple shots per turn, UnstableVoltage?
     
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  20. Latelistener Arbiter

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    I didn't say that they will run out of money. It's just unrealistic to see this game coming out this year.
    So far they designed 4 classes, one of which is still in the works. The tactical part that will be in the demo is still far from ready, and they have the strategic part which isn't easier to make with all that simulation.
    Although the fact that there are living breathing time units is giving me much hope.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 11:58 AM
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  21. ArchAngel Magister

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    I think how Xenonauts did it with right click adding more TU to your shot in exchange for more accurate shot is how it should be done. Since PP shows how much you can move and still fire they could change in real time the move+shoot border as you add more TU to that one shot. That would be easy to understand for players.
     
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  22. Shog-goth Educated

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    "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white; as long as it catches mice, it's a good cat" . The only thing I really care about is that the hybrid tactical system becomes "TU à la X-Com + Will Points" from "2 potential actions + Will Points".
     
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  23. PanteraNera Learned

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    Yes I keep saying since the PCGamer Weekender (two months ago) that they will not make that deadline in Q4 2018. Back than running out of money was my main concern.
     
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  24. PanteraNera Learned

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    To be more precise, this can mean three things:
    - the original system that allowed move-shot + an additional shot with spending willpower points
    - or the system they are testing that allows shot-shot
    - or that there are skills that enable you to do another shot

    He just confirmed that it is possible to fire multiple times.
     
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  25. ArchAngel Magister

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    With new Xcom like games the presentation is as important as the game itself. Most of the simplifications of Xcom were due to not being able to keep it both slick and complex. When you check out some of the videos of their previous versions you can see they had a better game there (by codex standard).
    It seems PP is kind of following same principle but are willing to go in the way of complexity more and sacrifice slickness and ease to play more.

    So to conclude, in case of PP it matters a lot if the cat is black or white because when customers come into the shop to buy a cat they cannot know how many mice the cat will catch in next 10 years but they can decide on the spot if they want to look at white or black cat running around their house for next 10 years.
     
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