Development Info Pete Hines Responds

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Precisely. Thank you, Saint. You are like a brother I've never had

I think this part is the key:

Sure, he might have gone a little overboard and perhaps could have been a little more tactful than saying outright that Pete Hines is full of shit.

I'm sure we each had our reasons to agree or disagree with Hines, but the main source of criticism appeared to be how Vault Dweller handled the subject.

 

[HanoverF]

But I wanted to whine too!!!

Ha, maximum capacity has been breached!

I don't think anyone would be "up in arms" so much if Beth would stop with the crappy PR. Reap what you sow and all that.

 

[Brillo]

I fail to see how this clears anything up; it's just more bullshit piled up on the other bullshit which basically amounts to: "Um... yeah, those interviews were done a month ago [before they realized people would get upset at decisions to go FP and RT without consideration for anything else], so just ignore it for now." and "Ugh.. yeah, eventhough the articles do present some clear ideas of what will be in FO3 just ignore that too because there's no dev team yet [BTW, where else would the articles get such clearly defined ideas except from a Beth person]."

Dude, do you not read? Todd Howard, Executive Producer on Oblivion got interviewed by some mags a couple months ago when interplay made their announcement. He told em his ideas and such for FO3 cause he'll likely be in charge there when it gets started. That doesn't mean things have been discussed, or decided. It doesn't mean there is a dev team currently planning or in preproduction.

And it doesn't mean things are decided and set in stone. Do you have any idea how many ideas get brought up and discarded early in development? And we aren't even at that stage yet. No team to sit around brainstorming, tossing out ideas, criticizing em, and picking them apart. No time spent visiting the community sites to see their reactions and what people want and expect. Just a couple sentences to get the mags off their backs and writing some positive hype early on.

This whole episode is exactly why companies are so hessitant to try and involve or communicate with game fans.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What part of "it's just more bullshit piled up on the other bullshit" in Seven's post did you miss, Brillo?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think this part is the key:

Sure, he might have gone a little overboard and perhaps could have been a little more tactful than saying outright that Pete Hines is full of shit.

I'm sure we each had our reasons to agree or disagree with Hines, but the main source of criticism appeared to be how Vault Dweller handled the subject.

I underlined the key parts. Let me read them to you: might, a little, perhaps, a little.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I like exitiums new phase because hes all trying to be civilized but makes himself look like a fool at every turn.

EXITIUM COME BACK TO THE DARKSIDE FABOI WE MISS YOU <3

WOW 4 LIFE

 

[Brillo]

What part of "it's just more bullshit piled up on the other bullshit" in Seven's post did you miss, Brillo?

And I was just pointing out that it may not have been bullshit. Believe it or not, sometimes game dev's tell the truth. :shock:

Sorry if I haven't spent the last decade of my life whining and gnashing my teeth and wailing in despair as I waited for the One True Fallout sequel while interplay fucked it over. Guess it sorta lets me actually believe someone. *shrug* But hey, whatever. You wanna spend the next three years doing more of the same, feel free.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And I was just pointing out that it may not have been bullshit. Believe it or not, sometimes game dev's tell the truth. :shock:

Does the fact that the explanation Pete used doesn't make any sense bother you?

 

[Brillo]

And I was just pointing out that it may not have been bullshit. Believe it or not, sometimes game dev's tell the truth. :shock:

Does the fact that the explanation Pete used doesn't make any sense bother you?

Makes sense to me. I even explained it in simpler terms for folks a couple posts back.

 

[Sol Invictus]

What part of "it's just more bullshit piled up on the other bullshit" in Seven's post did you miss, Brillo?

You sound like someone I knew who'd start accusing people of being liars if they ever muddled up anything they said or contradicted themselves in any possible way. He was this guy, right - he asked me what I was preparing and I told him it was egg salad. Of course, at that point I didn't know that I had ran out of eggs so I had to improvise with some pickles, so it became more of a pickled salad than an egg salad, right? Anyway, the guy comes back and he asks me why I'm not making an egg salad so I tell him what I'm doing and he immediately accuses me of 'bullshitting' him. Yeah, I get a little frustrated and try to explain to him what happened and he goes on about how I'm just "piling your bullshit on top of even more bullshit. If you don't how how to prepare an egg salad just say you don't know how and stop fucking lieing to me."

Suffice to say I don't talk to him anymore.

 

[FireWolf]

Bethesda has a problem. They've gotten hold of one of the most anticipated and acclaimed licences available with a fan base who're notoriously avid about everything relating to it. On the one hand they don't want to say anything about the title because they haven't started it yet, on the other they're being pressurised by both the fan community and the press for details which they don't have.

They could have just said at the start that they were unable to comment since the game hasn't even hit preproduction. Of course, they were also struck with the wild speculation which the fan community popped up with when there was no info whatsoever. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they release some vague ideas into the world there's speculation upon the worse case scenario and they're bitched out. If they don't release any info at all there's still wild speculation based on previous titles and the products of depraved and rabid imaginations.

Bethesda have persistently said they don't have a development team for this title yet, their best course of action would surely be to hire someone whom the community knows wont destroy the game.

 

[plin]

I wonder what some of you kids are like in real life. For something so small to get you so angry and flustered, it's amazing. Your dispositions and personalities must lack all patience, understanding, compassion, and reason. I wonder how you'll deal with real horrible situations in life. I wonder if seven or vault dweller, or briosfreak have ever been laid, have ever had real friends.

 

[Brillo]

Bethesda has a problem. They've gotten hold of one of the most anticipated and acclaimed licences available with a fan base who're notoriously avid about everything relating to it. On the one hand they don't want to say anything about the title because they haven't started it yet, on the other they're being pressurised by both the fan community and the press for details which they don't have.

They could have just said at the start that they were unable to comment since the game hasn't even hit preproduction. Of course, they were also struck with the wild speculation which the fan community popped up with when there was no info whatsoever. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they release some vague ideas into the world there's speculation upon the worse case scenario and they're bitched out. If they don't release any info at all there's still wild speculation based on previous titles and the products of depraved and rabid imaginations.

Yep. Which is probably why all the dev's with experience with the FO community have been like "Ha, good luck! They'll need it. " when asked about Bethesda developing FO3.

Bethesda have persistently said they don't have a development team for this title yet, their best course of action would surely be to hire someone whom the community knows wont destroy the game.

Such as? All the former dev's own/work at Bethesda's competitors. And although they've hired TES fans/modders from the community, I have a hard time seeing many FO folks who might be, uh, suitable. :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

Makes sense to me. I even explained it in simpler terms for folks a couple posts back

Ok then, let's take a look.

Todd Howard, Executive Producer on Oblivion got interviewed by some mags a couple months ago when interplay made their announcement. He told em his ideas and such for FO3 cause he'll likely be in charge there when it gets started.

Let me rephrase. A guy who will lilkely be in charge of the project stated his rather specific ideas for a game, but we should disregard those ideas as RUMARS because he's not officially in charge yet? Yeah, make a lot of sense.

That doesn't mean things have been discussed, or decided.

No, of course not. He just started talking and it came to him out of the blue. Now, things like "yeah, it's gonna be dark, violent, open-ended, and shit" are very generic and don't mean nothing. Things like "it's gonna be light sensitive and you'd need googles" point to some serious concepts already made. You don't make stuff like that up on a spot. That's too specific. Come on, people, use your heads. Light-sensitive means no light in the original dwelling. That's either some underground place like subway or a ruined vault. Once again to specific. It also means no isometric. Also specific decision. Details are everywhere, yet nothing's been discussed. It's a bought IP, for god's sake, nobody buys stuff unless they already know what they are going to do with that. Is it a rocket science for you, guys?

And we aren't even at that stage yet. No team to sit around brainstorming, tossing out ideas, criticizing em, and picking them apart.

Is that a fact?

No time spent visiting the community sites to see their reactions and what people want and expect.

The only community Bethesda is really interested in is the one that visits their own forums. These are the guys that made MW a success. These are the guys who love Bethesda. So, I'm sure that what people want and expect has already been noted, and that's why they bought the FO license in the first place.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I wonder what some of you kids are like in real life. For something so small to get you so angry and flustered, it's amazing. Your dispositions and personalities must lack all patience, understanding, compassion, and reason. I wonder how you'll deal with real horrible situations in life. I wonder if seven or vault dweller, or briosfreak have ever been laid, have ever had real friends.

Plin, I gave plenty of reasons and logical conclusions to explain and present my position. If you disagree, attack my position not me.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I underlined the key parts. Let me read them to you

How many more times are you going to make insinuations towards my reading capability while claiming it was not your intentionto attack me? Just curious.

 

[FireWolf]

VD, is the article in the words of Todd? I don't have the magazine myself so I'm relying on accurate translation from whoever posted it. If it is in quotation marks as being the exact words stated by him, then so be it, I'll gladly retract my statements regarding speculation. However, from what I can see from it, it appears to be entirely speculation on the writer's part about the goggles and whatnot. I don't know whether he/she's explaining what their interpretation of Fallout is, or whether its details gleamed from an interview.

Yep. Which is probably why all the dev's with experience with the FO community have been like "Ha, good luck! They'll need it. " when asked about Bethesda developing FO3.

I think the ones who say that about the Fallout community are those who brought out sub-par interpretations of the Fallout world. If they put forward stupid ideas and butcher the heritage of the universe then they should be brought down to size. If chuck had spent more time listening to the Fans than claiming they're so rabid perhaps his game wouldn't have sucked the hard one.

I just think if Fallout fans could be a bit more approachable they'd be more willing to consult us about what is a bad idea. I'm not saying take creative control away from them, but I think if we've stuck with the franchise for near a decade we probably have a bit of a valid reason to contribute.

 

[Brillo]

Let me rephrase. A guy who will lilkely be in charge of the project stated his rather specific ideas for a game, but we should disregard those ideas as RUMARS because he's not officially in charge yet? Yeah, make a lot of sense.

First, Hines wasn't saying disregard everything. He was responding to people calling him a liar for saying there wasn't a dev team in place yet, even though Howard said a couple things to a mag.

Second, I didn't say they were rumours. Said they were ideas someone had and talked when a mag asked them for comments literaly hours after finding out they'd gotten a license. Those ideas may very well end up incorporated into FO3. They may also be chucked out the window like 99% of the other ideas you come up with in pre-production. We don't know untill they say anything further.

The only community Bethesda is really interested in is the one that visits their own forums. These are the guys that made MW a success. These are the guys who love Bethesda.

Actually a lot of them are currently pissed of at Bethesda for making Oblivion smaller so they can try and improve the game's dialogue. It's actually a little funny to watch. Specially the heartbroken little xbox kiddies.

And as far as only caring about them, they've interacted far more with the FO community than with the people posting in the FO threads on their boards.

 

[plin]

I wonder what some of you kids are like in real life. For something so small to get you so angry and flustered, it's amazing. Your dispositions and personalities must lack all patience, understanding, compassion, and reason. I wonder how you'll deal with real horrible situations in life. I wonder if seven or vault dweller, or briosfreak have ever been laid, have ever had real friends.

Plin, I gave plenty of reasons and logical conclusions to explain and present my position. If you disagree, attack my position not me.

Oh, that wasn't an attack. That was just me wondering about something. And I have stated my opinion on this whole matter many times.

 

[Seven]

Dude, do you not read? Todd Howard, Executive Producer on Oblivion got interviewed by some mags a couple months ago when interplay made their announcement. He told em his ideas and such for FO3 cause he'll likely be in charge there when it gets started. That doesn't mean things have been discussed, or decided. It doesn't mean there is a dev team currently planning or in preproduction.

So then we're agreed that he's definitely got ideas, and he was allowed to discuss these ideas with a magazine, and no one over there at Beth stopped to say, "hey wait, nothing's been discussed or designed yet, perhaps we should hold off." Yeah, you're right I lack the capacity to read and have critical thought.

This whole episode is exactly why companies are so hessitant to try and involve or communicate with game fans.

This whole episode illustrates how Beth has put its foot in its mouth time and time again.

And I was just pointing out that it may not have been bullshit.

No you weren't you started by questioning my ability to read, and then you went on to make a couple generalizations and blanket-statements that aren't really contextual with this situation.

Makes sense to me. I even explained it in simpler terms for folks a couple posts back.

Gullable breed from you're from?

You sound like someone I knew who'd start accusing people of being liars if they ever muddled up anything they said or contradicted themselves in any possible way.

This has been an ongoing thing with Beth, I don't see why you persist in not accepting this fact. They say they have nothing to say, then they turn around and say something, then there's an uproar, and then they say that they have nothing to say and that nothing's been done. If this doesn't define bullshit then I don't know what does.

Your dispositions and personalities must lack all patience, understanding, compassion, and reason.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

First, Hines wasn't saying disregard everything. He was responding to people calling him a liar for saying there wasn't a dev team in place yet, even though Howard said a couple things to a mag.

What you don't understand is that Beth is trying to make their position as that of being open to any ideas when in fact they already have a clearly defined idea of where they want to go with the franchaise. I'm not doubting that there is no dev team, what I'm doubting is the attitude that they will keep an open mind and not dismiss certain aspects of FO out of hand.

 

[FireWolf]

Maybe Bethesda will hire Chuck what with his experience with both Fallout and the commuity.

 

[Brillo]

This whole episode illustrates how Beth has put its foot in its mouth time and time again.

Everyone puts their foot in their mouth occasionally. Specially when you've got obsessive fans parsing every single sentence you utter, looking for the bad news that will justify them flaming you.

Gullable breed from you're from?

Nah, just a bit less uptight about this all.

This has been an ongoing thing with Beth, I don't see why you persist in not accepting this fact.

Ongoing? Dude, in the last 2 months Bethesda's said about 6 sentences publicly about FO3 that were more detailed than "it's too early to comment" You sure all that Interplay shit's not bleeding into this for some of you?

I'm not doubting that there is no dev team, what I'm doubting is the attitude that they will keep an open mind and not dismiss certain aspects of FO out of hand.

And you dout that why? One or two senteces from a dev immediatly after they found out they got the license?

Doubt away. But on the off chance they are willing to listen to you, you might want to have something more productive to say than "Fuck you, you liars." to them.

 

[Avin]

bethesda should remake buggerfall. seriously, i liked thah game

 

[Vault Dweller]

I underlined the key parts. Let me read them to you

How many more times are you going to make insinuations towards my reading capability while claiming it was not your intentionto attack me? Just curious.

Come on, RP, you know me. I don't do sneaky stuff like that and have no problems openly and clearly insulting somebody. The only offensive thing I've said to you I took back. Peace, bro.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I wonder what some of you kids are like in real life. For something so small to get you so angry and flustered, it's amazing. Your dispositions and personalities must lack all patience, understanding, compassion, and reason. I wonder how you'll deal with real horrible situations in life. I wonder if seven or vault dweller, or briosfreak have ever been laid, have ever had real friends.

Plin, I gave plenty of reasons and logical conclusions to explain and present my position. If you disagree, attack my position not me.

Oh, that wasn't an attack. That was just me wondering about something. And I have stated my opinion on this whole matter many times.

First, it was an attack. Second, to satisfy your curiosity, I'm 33, married, have a kid, have been laid, have only 2 good friends. If you don't have any more questions, we move to the point #3. Third, I'm aware of your opinion and, unlike you, I didn't flame you for that by asking idiotic questions about the status of your sex life. How the fuck does that affect my position?