KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

NWN2 has two things going for it: the keep (which is good but not great) and the character system.

 

[Galdred]

NWN2 keep is something special because it's the best stronghold in gaming. I already said they have to make it more like that instead of playing architect in an RPG. Big decision making that affects something down the line.

That is unfortunately a statement I have to agree with:
Crossroad keep was somewhat pointless(as developing it didn't change that much for the final battle), but it is the best we've got so far. DA: Awakening was pretty good iirc, but the game itself was too easy.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

NWN2 keep is something special because it's the best stronghold in gaming. I already said they have to make it more like that instead of playing architect in an RPG. Big decision making that affects something down the line.

Dead State fits this.

 

[Shadenuat]

It's not like that arrows are rare in RPGs or expensive as they should be.

Stock arrows shouldn't be expensive ffs. It's a stick with a sharp end and fletchings.

not expensive in what setting? in what era? compared to what?

medieval arrows were not free at all and would be a moderate money sink for a comparable beginning group of "adventurers" if they existed

+2 and better arrows would take quite a sum from you in IE games if you'd want to run a pure bow ranger for example. not comparable to ridonculous amounts of money you end up with later but still thousands of gold.

 

[Background Character]

Can I romance Baba Yaga?

 

[Grunker]

+2 and better arrows would take quite a sum from you in IE games if you'd want to run a pure bow ranger for example.

Yes, which meant playing as an archer was p. much the only way to have money matter in the IE games. Weren't you're the one just arguing for more class balance?

 

[Neanderthal]

It's not like that arrows are rare in RPGs or expensive as they should be.

Stock arrows shouldn't be expensive ffs. It's a stick with a sharp end and fletchings.

not expensive in what setting? in what era? compared to what?

medieval arrows were not free at all and would be a moderate money sink for a comparable beginning group of "adventurers" if they existed

+2 and better arrows would take quite a sum from you in IE games if you'd want to run a pure bow ranger for example. not comparable to ridonculous amounts of money you end up with later but still thousands of gold.

Now this is one area where I'd like to see a bit of crafting in the party camp, you purchase fifty arrowheads (pile, broad what have you) from the local smith, a few feathers for the flights, and fletch your own shafts. Glue and wood would be a given I'm thinking, but your wizard or cleric could add some sparkly bits if need be, or your thief poison or something.
Make Bowyer/Fletcher a skill and pepper opportunities and rare components here and there maybe.

 

[Lacrymas]

The problem with crafting has always been the question "what does it add to the gameplay?". What is the difference in this situation between just buying the arrows and having to go through the crafting process? The crafting seems unnecessary.

 

[Neanderthal]

I like ad hoc crafting and preparation, and masterwork crafting being left to professionals, that's reason enough for me.

 

[Azarkon]

Banal starting scenarios like "go kill bandits" require better presentation than 15 minutes of exposition.

I'm sorry wat
Now you're losing me. why is local lord telling you to go kill banditos is not enoff to go kill banditos?

Do you need to spend 15 minutes to tell adventurers to go kill bandits?

This game obviously took inspiration from Obsidian's games

It's basically NWN1 prologue - meet npc/lords and companions then evil dudes come; and BG1 act 1-2 - hunt banditos and kobolds in forests, not any obsidian games.

Comparing to Neverwinter Nights is setting a low standard.

But I wasn't talking about the plot, I was talking about its use of mouse over links in the dialogue, as well as the use of dialogue for exposition, both features of recent Obsidian games.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's not like that arrows are rare in RPGs or expensive as they should be.

Stock arrows shouldn't be expensive ffs. It's a stick with a sharp end and fletchings.

not expensive in what setting? in what era? compared to what?

medieval arrows were not free at all and would be a moderate money sink for a comparable beginning group of "adventurers" if they existed

+2 and better arrows would take quite a sum from you in IE games if you'd want to run a pure bow ranger for example. not comparable to ridonculous amounts of money you end up with later but still thousands of gold.

In D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder non magical arrow inherit magical bonuses from the bow. If the bow is a +2 fire bow, non magical arrows fired from it are also considered +2 and can set stuff on fire. Magical arrows are only useful to give magical abilities that the bow that fires them does not have or to allow non magical bows to still damage creatures that are resistant to non magical weapons.

 

[Shadenuat]

goddamn balance.

 

[deuxhero]

It would be one thing if arrows were 100% crafted (ignoring the oddity of spontaneous arrowhead generation) while in wilderness during downtime. Then it would function like a per-day resource that could be novaed or stockpiled. Crafting arrows for the sake of having crafting is pointless. Item crafting has plenty of reasons to exist, be it trading character resources for financial resources , giving the player a very specific item they want for resources (and this could easily be done with a "request" option for NPCs. Smiths having random inventories without such a feature makes very little sense.), unique components for unique items (Often with a quest to get the stuff and/or choice of multiple items. Do you make the chunk of meteor iron into the Amulet of Invincibility or Ring of Laser Blasts?) instead of pointless "crafting" resources that do nothing.

The first is how it works in PNP Pathfinder, which is actually a good option because your money isn't subject to money grinding or broken economy, especially in a premade adventure. It also avoids otherwise useless crafting items and the only thing spent are money (the crafter is assumed to buy everything he needs. ), time and, in the case of armor/weapons, the base item. A handful of adventures award items that can be used to craft items, but this takes the form of being worth X Gold worth of components toward certain types of magic item (like ones that require a spell with the fire descriptor, or ones that add a bonus to AC)

 

[Neanderthal]

Sounds shit.

 

[Lacrymas]

If the crafting was tied to feats and it was something substantial, i.e. not having the items you craft anywhere else, then it might add an interesting element to the game. Being able to buy everything you can craft is almost pointless, certainly not enough justification to develop an entire system for it.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The only game I ever found crafting enjoyable in was Arcanum. It was simple, efficient, and productive. Materials were also fairly easy to come by. It's only fault is that I was digging through every trashcan I passed on the street for granules of charcoal. I would have liked to see a reputation consequence for that. I remember having a bit of fun crafting in TOEE since it had a level cap. The sale value of the crafted items were FAR in excess of the craft requirements. After that, every shred of XP on my wizard above Level 10 was spent churning out artifacts (+3 radiant polearms anyone?).

Crafting should be handled like Baldur's Gate 2, in that you didn't craft. You quest for legendary artifacts (or stumble upon them), and then take them to an NPC. To hell with harvesting every bush and toadstool along the way to brew up whatever potion that I'm going to hoard anyway. If I wanted to pretend to be some pleb townie, I'd play The Sims. Let's spend those development resources on something better, no?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

One thing is for sure; this game is destined to be shit as it isn't TB and looks like very rushed.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

As for now, while you can get magic bows and seems quickly, even act 1 has monsters with resists, and as you can imagine even something like 5/silver would make your average damage from most ranged weapons around err 0. Game does not feature anything like oils to apply on weapons either. Not giving ranged weapons any ammunition just kinda shits on ranged characters.

When doing scope control for an ambitious project given the time they have, ammunition types are an easy cut, especially given that most people prefer spells and melee.

most people prefer mcdonalds and think fast and furious 9 is the best idea for a movie ever

 

[jungl]

I cant remember the last DnD game where I considered using different ammuntion other then icewind dale and even there it was pointless. I rather have weather effects. Remember early mid 2000 when we got games like age of mythology, company of heroes and other isometric games that pushed the envelope in graphics when it comes to isometric games? That was nice. Then late 2000 to now everything is the lazy hipster zero effort excuse. Retro indie shit is trendy so who cares about graphics xD. Wouldn't you rather have more sandbox pixel art multiplayer games!111 free autism test included.

 

[Lacrymas]

You use special ammunition when you want something to die faster or is immune to the regular one.

 

[Dorateen]

Arrows of slaying was a wonderful concept in Knights of the Chalice.

 

[santino27]

Special ammunition is a pain in the ass in real time w/ pause systems, imo, to the point that a lot of people never use it at all vs forgetting to swap back and forth and blowing it all on useless encounters.

In turn-based, I think it's a really good addition to add another (albeit minor) wrinkle to combat.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Everything is a pain in the ass in real time w/ pause systems

Fixed.

 

[Fairfax]

Crafting should be handled like Baldur's Gate 2, in that you didn't craft. You quest for legendary artifacts (or stumble upon them), and then take them to an NPC. To hell with harvesting every bush and toadstool along the way to brew up whatever potion that I'm going to hoard anyway. If I wanted to pretend to be some pleb townie, I'd play The Sims. Let's spend those development resources on something better, no?

Such is the Gygax way.

Pcs create magic items before they achieve high level and retire? Never! What on earth is adventurous about manufacturing? If they sought a special magic item they quested for it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Special ammunition is a pain in the ass in real time w/ pause systems, imo, to the point that a lot of people never use it at all vs forgetting to swap back and forth and blowing it all on useless encounters.

In turn-based, I think it's a really good addition to add another (albeit minor) wrinkle to combat.

As a 38+12+x+y youtube videos watcher I can say do not worry, game has you with things like Oversized (extra damage for pitiful -2 to hit) Composite Keen +2 +2d6 acid damage bows with unlimited ammunition that bring much balance as giving that to even basic ranger companion Endu whachacallhim allows you to machinegun trolls in any numbers doing more damage than melee focused barbarian.

Now imagine whole party with this, early IE games with their longbows and +1 arrows you have to collect/buy rest in peace.

Yeah you do get this slightly later in the game (after becoming baron) and yeah they cost some money/time to come buy but the idea of unlimited ranged attacks of this sort in an open world isometric game where most monsters just stand around near the edge of fog of war waiting does not look very reasonable to me. Even early or medium level spells probably would not compare to Enduku sniping from his acid enchanted rifle to his heart's content.

Also I feel this game levels up you too quickly. Mods cutting xp probably incoming. What is this, it's like a plague of all nu-oldskool rpgs to skyrocket you through levels to level 10-12. They think that in an exploration based game where you travel with your little horse token opening locations and fighting random encounters, players won't move their little token everywhere exploring and killing random encounters and begin to quickly overlevel everything?

How to make xp gains in nu oldskool rpg:
1. make game
2. before release, cut all xp gains your designers were working on by 50%
3. release. wait
4. yeah strangely enough it turned out players still reach maximum level fine and game turned to be balanced. wow.