Party Based Classless RPG Suggestions

[Slow James]

I'm looking for some suggestions from the Codex on RPGs that are party based, but don't have specific classes.

The party can be one the player creates or one where the companions are recruited, no preference. Combat can be turn based of RTWP, anything besides action. Also, while I know there are some examples like Wasteland 2 or Jagged Alliance, the preferred genre would be typical fantasy, swords and sorcery.

I'm curious to see if there are many party based games that are truly classless, allow magic as a learned skill without being born a "Mage'" and which don't wind up being completely broken in terms of gameplay or balance.


Any suggestions?

 

[Cadmus]

well...Divinity:OS?

 

[Slow James]

well...Divinity:OS?

It's been a few months since I fired up Divinity, but didn't that have classes? Flexible classes, don't get me wrong, but classes nonetheless?

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Darklands, of course.

 

[V_K]

Blackguards are classless in principle, but magic is an exception here, it has to be specified at creation.
Challenge of the Five Realms - although since skills improve by use you'll waste a ton of reagents trying to teach your warriors magic.
Magic Candle series doesn't technically have classes, but it has races (and wizards are a race) that put limits to how much you can level certain skills if at all.
Jeff Vogel's Exile trilogy if you can get it to run. Avernum, its remake, qualifies too but he dumbs down character and magic system with each iteration, so I'd go with Exile.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I liked the look of this thread title, so I thought I'd drop by.

But then I found out it's about classlessness.

What's the angle you're angling for with the whole classlessness thing?

 

[Pony King]

D:OS is classless according to your specified requirement.
The classes were more build suggestions/automation.

 

[Slow James]

I liked the look of this thread title, so I thought I'd drop by.

But then I found out it's about classlessness.

What's the angle you're angling for with the whole classlessness thing?

We must tear down the class system that oppresses the masses!

Wait... no... wrong class system.


The discussion in some of the other threads about magic and it sizes in gaming had me thinking about more systems that could have magic being utilized freely by other class types, essentially. Classes in today's gaming seem to be driven by MMO archetypes that pigeonhole game design into an increasingly stale direction, IMO.

I was just looking for some suggested examples of games that let you control a party, but also not be slaves to designated roles within that party. If that makes sense.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Beyond Divinity.
You can choose class on the start, but that's not important. More important is - how you invest your future skillpoints (you can remove them for money and get back these points, then invest in something else) and stat points.
762mm - no classes for you and your free mercenaries. The one you paid have set specialisations though.

 

[Slow James]

D:OS is classless according to your specified requirement.
The classes were more build suggestions/automation.

Understood. More like TES games and their "classes," which were A) not well designed and B) more of a starter kit to work off of.

Like I said, it's been a few months since I've fired it up (great game, just dropped off due to something else and not gotten the time to go back yet) and even longer since I went through its character creation, so I appreciate you setting me straight.

 

[V_K]

Also (try at your own risk):
Daemonsgate - while all your characters come pre-made, you can still train them in all skills (attributes are static though, iirc). Magic is satisfyingly original in that it's limited to alchemy, item enchantment and summons. But the game has a ton of weird design decisions, particularly in its combat system and large (think Daggerfall but in overhead view) empty maps.
Faery Tale Adventure: Halls of the Dead - extremely RPG-lite, but technically qualifies. Character also come pre-made, but all the difference between them comes down to having 2 instead of 1 in a couple of skills (with the maximum being something like a 100) and you can develop them in any way you like. Also, the dialogue system is atrocious.

Come to think of it, going completely classless in a game with full party creation might be a bit of an overkill. A system like in later Wizardries seems flexible enough for that kind of game.

 

[octavius]

Dragon Wars.

But as I wrote somewhen else:

I'm not a big fan of the allocate-a-certain-amount-of-points-to-create-your-characters system, preferring the more random roll-a-character-class system, since being a party based game there is no point in creating jack-of-all trades characters, and by specializing the four characters you tend to end up with the four archetypical classes of Fighter, Thief, Wizard and Priest anyway.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Darklands and Arcanum faggot.

 

[Slow James]

Darklands and Arcanum faggot.

I've played the shit out of Arcanum, you dickless hairy cunt rag.


But thanks for the Darklans suggestion, I've overlooked the game in the past but may have to pick it up off GOG now. Cheers.

 

[k0syak]

Drakensang had a kinda classless system IIRC, have you played them?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

If you can stomach Arcanum combat you should be able to play through Darklands custerfuck of RtwP. Also read Manual and Clue Book before you play

Spoiler

they are both around 120 pages in gog version

 

[Slow James]

Drakensang had a kinda classless system IIRC, have you played them?

No, I had seen it come out, but hadn't taken a look. I'll have to scope it out.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Jeff Vogel's Exile trilogy if you can get it to run. Avernum, its remake, qualifies too but he dumbs down character and magic system with each iteration, so I'd go with Exile.

Actually, that's not true - for quite a while, Avernum's RPG system was developing with each iteration. And I'd say that 5 and 6 are the best of the series - yeah, their system might not be the deepest and their worlds might not be the most free, but they have the best encounter design of the series (when it comes to the bossfights, of course - trashmobs are trashmobs; but then, there's probably a hundred of bossfights in each of those so yeah).

 

[Athelas]

Arcanum faggot.

I don't think AI-controlled companions count as 'party-based'.

D:OS is classless according to your specified requirement.
The classes were more build suggestions/automation.

Understood. More like TES games and their "classes," which were A) not well designed and B) more of a starter kit to work off of.

Like I said, it's been a few months since I've fired it up (great game, just dropped off due to something else and not gotten the time to go back yet) and even longer since I went through its character creation, so I appreciate you setting me straight.

You don't actually have to pick any of the 'starter kits' in D:OS, you can customize your character from the very beginning in character creation.

 

[V_K]

Jeff Vogel's Exile trilogy if you can get it to run. Avernum, its remake, qualifies too but he dumbs down character and magic system with each iteration, so I'd go with Exile.

Actually, that's not true - for quite a while, Avernum's RPG system was developing with each iteration. And I'd say that 5 and 6 are the best of the series - yeah, their system might not be the deepest and their worlds might not be the most free, but they have the best encounter design of the series (when it comes to the bossfights, of course - trashmobs are trashmobs; but then, there's probably a hundred of bossfights in each of those so yeah).

Character system - maybe, can't remember the details exactly. But magic took a huge hit in the first Avernum, and was made even more dull from the fourth onward.
Also, "best encounter design of the series" isn't much of an achievement, really.

 

[V_K]

Drakensang had a kinda classless system IIRC, have you played them?

No, I had seen it come out, but hadn't taken a look. I'll have to scope it out.

It's not classless, it's just that there are trainers that can teach a non-class skill to a character. But due to how leveling up works, he'll still be worse at it than the one who had it at creation. And magic also can't be taught to a non-magic character, IIRC - it's a TDE thing.
But they're pretty decent party-based RPGs anyway, even if not classless. Especially the second one.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Thunderscape.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I believe the original Dungeon Siege fits your criteria. It sucks shit though.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

I get that people enjoy doing their own thing and hence the clamour for a classless system, but I was raised on D&D 2nd ed and am fairly familiar with both ways of doing it and tbh I prefer strict classes. A lot of the fun I got was from hinder, hobbling the classes to see what would happen. PnP example, I had a brain damaged mage, couldn't remember his own name most of the time DM used to regularly fuck me up and it was a hoot, so I just guess those memories have rolled over and made me enjoy classes in my RPG's.. although admittedly cRPG's certainly don't have the same freedom or options, but that's were my predilections have continued to lie.

 

[k0syak]

Drakensang had a kinda classless system IIRC, have you played them?

No, I had seen it come out, but hadn't taken a look. I'll have to scope it out.

It's not classless, it's just that there are trainers that can teach a non-class skill to a character. But due to how leveling up works, he'll still be worse at it than the one who had it at creation. And magic also can't be taught to a non-magic character, IIRC - it's a TDE thing.
But they're pretty decent party-based RPGs anyway, even if not classless. Especially the second one.

Probably got it mixed up with D:OS a bit
Still, pretty good games. Story in the first one is kinda lame - regular EPICHEROIC bullshit, but River of Time is very low-key and enjoyable.