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Paid mods are back - Bethesda's "Creation Club" for Fallout 4 and Skyrim

Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,875,970
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
It's obviously communist system. It didn't work the first time, it won't work the second time, but they'll keep trying until they get it just right and generalíssimos Todd and Pete can retire in Hawaii while the modders resort to cannibalism (deleting their mods on the Nexus).

nYspTaj.gif
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,104
I think the problem is they're in balls deep this time by announcing it publicly at E3. Previously it was just press statements by Valve and Bethesda respectively on their sites so they could backpedal on it, but now they're in for the long haul unless they want to risk seriously losing face following public outcry. Again. Like/dislike ratio on that video is still hilariously skewed and Bethesda has said nothing about it yet.
 

Ziem

Arbiter
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
324
Communism is strictly atheist though, not compatable with Godd.
it's actually not completely haram if you turn religion into your own tool; romanians had a state-controlled orthodox church under communism


I think the problem is they're in balls deep this time by announcing it publicly at E3. Previously it was just press statements by Valve and Bethesda respectively on their sites so they could backpedal on it, but now they're in for the long haul unless they want to risk seriously losing face following public outcry. Again. Like/dislike ratio on that video is still hilariously skewed and Bethesda has said nothing about it yet.
? that shit 2 years ago wasn't "just press statements", they implemented it on steam workshop
as for "losing face" and "public outcry", by the time they were releasing faggout4 nobody really cared about this entire paid mods drama nor did they care about the fact that since gamebortion engine, every bethesda game is essentially a repackaged copy of the previous ones, people (including, sadly, those who frequent this site) just ran to their stores happy they can purchase the same shitty game in a different wrapping
which pretty much proves that every bethestard must be beheaded
normally i'd settle for cutting off their reproductive organs, but faggots dont reproduce anyway, so it would not count as a just punishment
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Instead of making a big announcement that people will inevitably rebel against, they should have just started doing it, in a gradual fashion. Reach out to the developers of the most popular mods and offer them a DLC partnership. Then say "That worked well, so we're going to continue doing this with selected mods in the future." The program could be expanded over time until it becomes a de-facto "Creation Club", without ever having had to tell the public "We're doing paid mods now".
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
2,350
Location
Moscow
Instead of making a big announcement that people will inevitably rebel against, they should have just started doing it, in a gradual fashion. Reach out to the developers of the most popular mods and offer them a DLC partnership. Then say "That worked well, so we're going to continue doing this with selected mods in the future." The program could be expanded over time until it becomes a de-facto "Creation Club", without ever having had to tell the public "We're doing paid mods now".

Bethesda should hire you.
 

Lahey

Laheyist
Patron
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
1,467
Grab the Codex by the pussy
They tried but Feargus wouldn't let him go. Zenimax doesn't seem to know the difference between suing frogposters and boiling frogs.
Communism is strictly atheist though, not compatable with Godd.
it's actually not completely haram if you turn religion into your own tool; romanians had a state-controlled orthodox church under communism
I'm too much of a newfag to rate this as "informative" so instead please accept this written statement of thanks.
 

Rabbid

Savant
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
182
This is just a first step to a fully closed system for the next "buy-for-the-mods" single-player games that are Bethesda's trademark. Zenimax is just trying to convert the hype and the network built around modding into a potential revenue stream.

The problem I see with their new implementation is that it could be a lot worse (for the modders) than the Steam Workshop one. Not only they completely disregard everything the "big modders" have been doing without pay for years, namely: 1. building and hyping the entire network Zenimax tries to override 2. making it mainstream with the game they will re-re-release time and time again; they are also creating an artificially competitive environment for modders to buy into this new cooperation scheme. Remember the young and naive guy who made Falskaar? He wanted to be a Bethesda dev, and, of course, Beth didn't cave in. I am sure their interns are sooo much better than this guy.

The modders will eventually become freelancers as Bethesda will outsource more and more of the dev and support cycles. Judging by the statement's wording, they won't even be paid as full-time devs/contractors would. No, they will be named "external partners/Creators" who must submit a CV of sorts (provide samples of their previous work) so that they'll have the privilege to have their work "approved and curated" by Bethesda, with the prospect of being paid pennies when they hit their development milestones. Note that there is not even a mention of a sales cut compared to Steam Workshop.

Heck, it's not even the launch of a revolutionary monetization platform by Zenimax (see Uber and their non-employees drivers). They are enclosing an existing network tied to their IP and they won't even compensate fully the "Creators" for assisting their dev cycles and creating revenue that can potentially scale (like IAP in mobile games).

I hope that I am wrong here, as modders deserve at least to be compensated and get full-time jobs for their future contributions into AAA games. The monetizing of preexisting networks is a lost cause in this day and age anyway.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
"Paid mods" sounds awful, because it is.

But this isn't just "paid mods" when you think about it, it's more like "paid DLC". Why? Because the stuff that allegedy will be released on the Creation Club will very much work like DLC: fully integrated into the game, completely compatible with every other "paid DLC" that makes it to the Creation Club.

People bought shit like Hearthfire, but they suddenly don't like someone selling a MUCH better mod like Frostfall.

Let's recapitulate:

- Modders will be paid for their work.
- Mods will be released fully compatible with the base game and other mods.
- Mods will be more polished and probably better than their "normal" counterparts, that is, without the help from Bethesda (citation needed).

It all sounds awesome. There are two big problems that I cannot ignore:

- Over time I have no doubt that the "paid DLC" will be worth much, much more than the base game.
- Bethesda will use the Creation Club to add less content to their future games. After all, modders can do the work for them, and they will profit from the sales.

Bethesda is no guarantee of anything. In any reliable and honest developer's hands, Creation Club sounds really cool. Millenia's Weapon pack is extremely high quality, it could be EVEN MORE high quality if he had worked with Obsidian to iron out compatibility issues. That mod is definitely worth at least $5 in my book. For reference, how much is a full meal at McDonald's over there in the USA? I definitely think people overreact when it comes to prices for game-related stuff. I would gladly skip a delicious burguer if it means Millenia's weapons were fully integrated into New Vegas.
 

Rabbid

Savant
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
182

I mostly agree with your comment. The problem arises when DLC produced by freelancers (freelancers is the best case scenario - the other being a free-for-all Greenlight with minimum input from Bethesda) becomes the norm. Don't even think that small DLC (textures, armour sets, etc) will be hand-picked, or that the "Curator" will be burdened with extra costs to differentiate them from a mod. I am sure some chaps would even pay a small amount to have their work feature Bethesda's seal of approval.

Should a professional game dev be treated as a talented "Creator"? The Creation Club announcement could target both industry pros and amateur modders. This is a set up for major complications, especially when it is part of a promotional campaign taking place at E3. They didn't update Zenimax's corporate site with job openings (iirc, Hearthfire DLC was made by hiring modders). This is not an internal memo but a marketing campaign, a telling sign that Zenimax intends to override a community network (aka the modding scene), not push the industry's creative boundaries.

A mod like Frostfall is fully worth an asking price. Even a texture pack deserves to be paid if the creator wishes so. That does not equal trapping content creators inside a closed system while devaluing their, as well as the industry professionals', work. I am certain that Bethesda's DLC platform will be expansionary in the long run. The statements they issued employ tactful language. They won't release mods per se, but there is enough ambiguity to associate curated DLC with mods in the future. As is the norm in such cases, the only enabling factor is the IP. The work (even the promotion) is done by others but the gains belong to the IP holder.
 

MWaser

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
607
Location
Where you won't find me
I thought the State (Bethesda) taking control of the production (mods) was a kinda commie movement actually :M
That would only be the case if the mods were previously being sold individually by the production businesses, which was not the case.

It's more like the state claiming the local free water sources that people could use for free but a few people were either hired to upkeep or upkeeping out of their own volition but now it's sold.
 

MWaser

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
607
Location
Where you won't find me
This is just a first step to a fully closed system for the next "buy-for-the-mods" single-player games that are Bethesda's trademark. Zenimax is just trying to convert the hype and the network built around modding into a potential revenue stream.

The problem I see with their new implementation is that it could be a lot worse (for the modders) than the Steam Workshop one. Not only they completely disregard everything the "big modders" have been doing without pay for years, namely: 1. building and hyping the entire network Zenimax tries to override 2. making it mainstream with the game they will re-re-release time and time again; they are also creating an artificially competitive environment for modders to buy into this new cooperation scheme. Remember the young and naive guy who made Falskaar? He wanted to be a Bethesda dev, and, of course, Beth didn't cave in. I am sure their interns are sooo much better than this guy.

The modders will eventually become freelancers as Bethesda will outsource more and more of the dev and support cycles. Judging by the statement's wording, they won't even be paid as full-time devs/contractors would. No, they will be named "external partners/Creators" who must submit a CV of sorts (provide samples of their previous work) so that they'll have the privilege to have their work "approved and curated" by Bethesda, with the prospect of being paid pennies when they hit their development milestones. Note that there is not even a mention of a sales cut compared to Steam Workshop.

Heck, it's not even the launch of a revolutionary monetization platform by Zenimax (see Uber and their non-employees drivers). They are enclosing an existing network tied to their IP and they won't even compensate fully the "Creators" for assisting their dev cycles and creating revenue that can potentially scale (like IAP in mobile games).

I hope that I am wrong here, as modders deserve at least to be compensated and get full-time jobs for their future contributions into AAA games. The monetizing of preexisting networks is a lost cause in this day and age anyway.
Just wait for global economy collapse to have things reset, surely the exploitation of common folk cannot continue on endlessly in a trickle-up economy if corporations keep finding more way to earn profit from licensing the work of others for themselves.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623

I mostly agree with your comment. The problem arises when DLC produced by freelancers (freelancers is the best case scenario - the other being a free-for-all Greenlight with minimum input from Bethesda) becomes the norm. Don't even think that small DLC (textures, armour sets, etc) will be hand-picked, or that the "Curator" will be burdened with extra costs to differentiate them from a mod. I am sure some chaps would even pay a small amount to have their work feature Bethesda's seal of approval.

Should a professional game dev be treated as a talented "Creator"? The Creation Club announcement could target both industry pros and amateur modders. This is a set up for major complications, especially when it is part of a promotional campaign taking place at E3. They didn't update Zenimax's corporate site with job openings (iirc, Hearthfire DLC was made by hiring modders). This is not an internal memo but a marketing campaign, a telling sign that Zenimax intends to override a community network (aka the modding scene), not push the industry's creative boundaries.

A mod like Frostfall is fully worth an asking price. Even a texture pack deserves to be paid if the creator wishes so. That does not equal trapping content creators inside a closed system while devaluing their, as well as the industry professionals', work. I am certain that Bethesda's DLC platform will be expansionary in the long run. The statements they issued employ tactful language. They won't release mods per se, but there is enough ambiguity to associate curated DLC with mods in the future. As is the norm in such cases, the only enabling factor is the IP. The work (even the promotion) is done by others but the gains belong to the IP holder.

It's basically why I think the Creation Club is a bad thing. Some modders will benefit, but in the end it's nothing but trouble. Bethesda SHOULDN'T profit from what people do with their tools, in the same vein the store that sells me tools doesn't profit from the woodwork I make.

No, I don't make woodwork, but the analogy stands.
 

Vival

Augur
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
230
Fuck yeah, i was hoping it would return! Last time was so damn fun to watch! Modding tends to be filled to the brim with screeching lolcows, so the endless drama when mods get stolen, pirated, face censorhip will be a salty feast.
 

BBMorti

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
607
Instead of making a big announcement that people will inevitably rebel against, they should have just started doing it, in a gradual fashion. Reach out to the developers of the most popular mods and offer them a DLC partnership. Then say "That worked well, so we're going to continue doing this with selected mods in the future." The program could be expanded over time until it becomes a de-facto "Creation Club", without ever having had to tell the public "We're doing paid mods now".
Easy now, control your inner jew before it evolves too far
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
2,350
Location
Moscow
Instead of making a big announcement that people will inevitably rebel against, they should have just started doing it, in a gradual fashion. Reach out to the developers of the most popular mods and offer them a DLC partnership. Then say "That worked well, so we're going to continue doing this with selected mods in the future." The program could be expanded over time until it becomes a de-facto "Creation Club", without ever having had to tell the public "We're doing paid mods now".
Easy now, control your inner jew before it evolves too far

It's actually pretty hard to control your inner jew sometimes, to the point of struggle. I know that feeling. :lol:
 

Severian Silk

Guest
It's basically why I think the Creation Club is a bad thing. Some modders will benefit, but in the end it's nothing but trouble. Bethesda SHOULDN'T profit from what people do with their tools, in the same vein the store that sells me tools doesn't profit from the woodwork I make.

No, I don't make woodwork, but the analogy stands.
Unless you also want to sell your woodwork in that store.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
It's basically why I think the Creation Club is a bad thing. Some modders will benefit, but in the end it's nothing but trouble. Bethesda SHOULDN'T profit from what people do with their tools, in the same vein the store that sells me tools doesn't profit from the woodwork I make.

No, I don't make woodwork, but the analogy stands.
Unless you also want to sell your woodwork in that store.

You mean "Bethesda should profit by modders selling content in their Creation Club"?
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
Communism is strictly atheist though, not compatable with Godd.
it's actually not completely haram if you turn religion into your own tool; romanians had a state-controlled orthodox church under communism


I think the problem is they're in balls deep this time by announcing it publicly at E3. Previously it was just press statements by Valve and Bethesda respectively on their sites so they could backpedal on it, but now they're in for the long haul unless they want to risk seriously losing face following public outcry. Again. Like/dislike ratio on that video is still hilariously skewed and Bethesda has said nothing about it yet.
? that shit 2 years ago wasn't "just press statements", they implemented it on steam workshop
as for "losing face" and "public outcry", by the time they were releasing faggout4 nobody really cared about this entire paid mods drama nor did they care about the fact that since gamebortion engine, every bethesda game is essentially a repackaged copy of the previous ones, people (including, sadly, those who frequent this site) just ran to their stores happy they can purchase the same shitty game in a different wrapping
which pretty much proves that every bethestard must be beheaded
normally i'd settle for cutting off their reproductive organs, but faggots dont reproduce anyway, so it would not count as a just punishment

we still do. a few years ago the state started paying wages to priests. so basically in romania you pay taxes that go to the church in addition to donations and paid church sevices like weddings and funerals for the benefit of being brainwashed into voting for the "right" party.
and it doesn't help if you're a clandestine worker. they still get your money through taxes on gas, cigarettes, alcohol and of course value added tax + the price of anything that requires transportation and consumes gas in the process which is mostly everything.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Kinda happy that the "mods will fix it" crowd finally gets their comeuppance. :M

It's lame, but this is Bethesda, so what did you expect?
 

Severian Silk

Guest
It's basically why I think the Creation Club is a bad thing. Some modders will benefit, but in the end it's nothing but trouble. Bethesda SHOULDN'T profit from what people do with their tools, in the same vein the store that sells me tools doesn't profit from the woodwork I make.

No, I don't make woodwork, but the analogy stands.
Unless you also want to sell your woodwork in that store.

You mean "Bethesda should profit by modders selling content in their Creation Club"?
In the 2000s you had to pirate or dumpster dive to play old games no longer sold in stores if you didn't want to pay an arm or leg or accumulate dozens of boxes and manuals. Then Steam and GOG came, and you could do so legitimately. And all was good.

Same deal here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
In the 2000s you had to pirate or dumpster dive to play old games no longer sold in stores. Then Steam and GOG came, and you could do so legitimately.

Same deal here.

I don't get your point, teacher senpai. What I'm trying to say is that modders aren't allowed to make money off their mods. People don't play mods because of the assets Bethesda has made, people play them because of the idea someone crafted on his own, and that idea isn't Bethesda's. A modder making money by selling his .esps on a disc on the middle of the street is illegal to Bethesda. Aside from the laws already in place, I don't see why it should be illegal. Bethesda should be thankful modders constitute free advertising for their otherwise buggy, boring games.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
In the 2000s you had to pirate or dumpster dive to play old games no longer sold in stores. Then Steam and GOG came, and you could do so legitimately.

Same deal here.

I don't get your point, teacher senpai. What I'm trying to say is that modders aren't allowed to make money off their mods. People don't play mods because of the assets Bethesda has made, people play them because of the idea someone crafted on his own, and that idea isn't Bethesda's. A modder making money by selling his .esps on a disc on the middle of the street is illegal to Bethesda. Aside from the laws already in place, I don't see why it should be illegal. Bethesda should be thankful modders constitute free advertising for their otherwise buggy, boring games.
it's what you get for bowing to corporations pushing copyright laws. there is no such thing as intellectual property. it's made up to get rich easy by doing something once and then living off it for the rest of your life.
i like the argument with the tools. a hammer will have to be made again and again for each new customer and there is no way in hell that customer will start paying you for every nail he hits for the rest of your life because you sold him a fucking hammer.
but with moronic copyright laws everything is possible and with people bowing to them courts will enforce them ad absurdum.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,175
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
they will get away with it because this is the mentality of average people:

pprCJI2.jpg


they will whine and whine in the end of the day still throw money at it.
 

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