Paid mods are back - Bethesda's "Creation Club" for Fallout 4 and Skyrim

[Infinitron]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-12-13-creation-club-the-fallout

Bethesda's Creation Club: the fallout

It's been six months since E3 2017, when Bethesda announced its intention to add a Creation Club to Skyrim and Fallout 4, their massively-successful mega-RPGs known for their breadth of content and emphasis on player freedom. This club would task third-party developers with producing new pieces for the publisher's two marquee games, which players could then buy from an online storefront with real money. While some decried the service as yet another attempt to introduce paid mods to the single-player gaming ecosystem, Bethesda insisted the market for free fan-made content would remain unaffected. "We won't allow any existing mods to be retrofitted into Creation Club," reads the FAQ. "It must all be original content."

Following this, in late August Bethesda revealed the initial line-up for Creation Club, which included the Hellfire Power Armour and the Chinese Stealth Suit, both priced at $5 and inspired by similar items introduced in the various expansions for Fallout 3. There was just one little problem - if you searched the Nexus, the massively-populated home of free mods for Bethesda's games, among others, you'd find both the Hellfire Power Armour and the Chinese Stealth Suit already on offer for the low, low price of nothing.

A mild furore erupted. Press pounced on the revelation, which fed the already-boiling fan frenzy over what were considered outrageous prices for sub-par content. Paying $5 for a piece of armour was bad enough, but when the free alternative is superior, the bad deal starts to seem like an out-and-out ripoff. For Road to Liberty, the mod team behind the two projects, it was a confusing development, and one they worked with Bethesda to try to avoid.

"There were 17 of us sitting in the Discord," says NafNaf95, a level and landscape designer who works with the team. "A lot of them are just fans who like to hang out with us. We were sceptical, but we wanted to give it a chance. When we saw the initial line-up, none of us had any idea what was coming up. I know somebody on the team might have, but not me, at least. When we saw it, we got on social media and told people, 'We have nothing to do with this. This is not our work.' But we got thrashed anyway."

"It was more of a coincidence than anything," says Dogtooth, the highly-respected artist behind both armour sets. "We had already shown off the armour, but there were some delays that kept it from coming out for a year. I reached out to Bethesda see what they wanted to do. I was ready to scrap it. They were totally awesome, and we made sure there were no issues.

"Something as simple as our behind-the-scenes naming scheme could have caused issues if a person had them both installed. That was a really excellent experience, being able to communicate directly with them to ensure that it wasn't in direct conflict."

By all accounts, Bethesda handled the apparent controversy well. All of the modders involved describe the incident as a minor misunderstanding. "They're not even that similar," Dogtooth adds. "I took a lot of liberties with both armours. They stuck closer to the originals. It's just an artistic decision."

You can pay for the Hellfire Power Armour on Creation Club, or get it for free from Nexus mods.

Beyond this, however, modders were far less kind to the Club itself, an initiative they describe as "valueless," "confusing" and altogether "half-assed." Though many applaud the concept as fresh and invigorating, the execution is another story entirely. "The negativity from fans and modders alike has been overwhelming," says Unoctium, the coding wizard who implements the mods into the game engine. "We ended up creating a separate channel for it on our Discord. But now, almost nobody posts in it."

Across a range of interviews, the various modders describe how they initially hoped the service would provide a standard of content far superior to that of the Nexus. Several referenced the paid mods fiasco of 2015, when Bethesda and Valve worked together to introduce paid content to the Steam Workshop. It was an unmitigated disaster in the community, but Bethesda seemed committed to the cause, publishing a lengthy defense on its blog. Valve was altogether less stalwart - it pulled support after just a week. From the modders' perspective, this experience explains why the Creation Club suffers from both a paucity of content and imagination alike, a service in search of a core audience.

"What they announced sounded really ambitious," says Gopher, a modder and streamer best-known for his modding tutorials. "Essentially, we thought they wanted external developers - ex-mod makers among them - to be able to create the big stuff, the stuff that came along rarely, like Falskaar, an expansion pack-sized mod for Skyrim, or total conversions like Enderal, which replaces the story entirely. But then they roll it out and it's a bunch of stuff that's already out there."

"Mini-DLC is the ideal form for paid mods," adds NafNaf95. "Mods can have content the size of DLCs, but it takes years. Modders, with the support of Bethesda, could do something like that in months."

Fallout 4's Chinese Stealth Armour mod was at the centre of the controversy around Creation Club.

Even the harrowed defenders of the service express scepticism at what they view as steep prices for the content on offer. Many reference the fact five piddling weapons or suits of armour costs as much as Far Harbor, one of the official DLC packs for Fallout 4. However, according to Dogtooth, who generally holds a far higher opinion of the initiative than his teammates these asking rates aren't quite as ridiculous as some may think.

"The prices are a little skewed, but some of them are made by contractors," he says. "When you work freelance, you have to charge some overhead while you work out a new contract. Salaried workers are discounted. If I was able to sell my content without Bethesda's oversight, taking into account what it costs to produce in man-hours, no one would buy them, because it'd be way too expensive."

From Gopher's perspective, the particulars of production might prove enlightening to some, but the fans are ultimately the ones getting the shaft. "Some people say I'm insulting the modders when I say a suit of armour isn't worth $5. Well, what does that say about the quantity of the game itself? It's got loads of weapons and suits of armour, and you pay $25 for it on-sale. There's definitely a disconnect."

As a whole, the modders view Creation Club as Bethesda's second stab at monetising the secondary content market, albeit in an incredibly limited form. They see it as a missed opportunity. "They don't realise they've monetised modding already," claims Gopher. "Modding is like a game's soundtrack. You don't buy new songs for use in-game. It's an extra that adds value to Bethesda games on PC, and it keeps the sales going strong. That's why it's a PR disaster."

When it comes to the future of Creation Club, the modders vary in tone and outlook, but they all agree it's probably not evaporating into the ether anytime soon. "I'm absolutely certain Elder Scrolls 6 will have some form of this," says Gopher. "And if they have content for it on day one, people are going to call it out for what it is: day one DLC. And we all know how the gaming community feels about that."

For what it's worth, though, the modders don't begrudge Bethesda for trying to pick up a few "cents on the dollar". In their view, the modding market is changing, and not for the better. "Everyone thinks the modders are becoming more mercenary, but that's actually the case for the userbase," says Unoctium. "People expect free content with professional troubleshooting and service. As a result, there's still collaboration between modders, but it's much more transactional, like trading favours."

The Enclave X-02 Power Armour mod for Fallout 4 took its creator thousands of hours to create.

Dogtooth illustrates this point with an anecdote. When designing the NCR Veteran Ranger armour, he decided to add a little comic flair by attaching a fire extinguisher to the back of the suit. While such a tool might seem slightly incongruous with the post-apocalyptic setting, he stands by the decision. "It was a great design decision for the silhouette," he says. "But we've gotten more flack for that than anything. More than one person has contacted me for the sole purpose of telling me that I have to change it. I'm obligated to, apparently." He gives a heavy sigh, more out of exhaustion than anger. "Times like that, I just log off. I want to be a nice person.

"I would love to see more complex content on the Creation Club," he continues. "But I think anybody who thinks what we have is low-effort should pick it up and try it. There are people out there who might say my work is better than anything on the Creation Club so far, but it's production art. It's heavily-deadlined. I have as much time as I need for a mod project.

"The amount of work I've put into the Enclave X-02 armour alone is like 1500 to 1800 hours. And that's just one of our mods. For the most part, I work on this stuff pretty much full-time. On weekends, six hours a day. If I was to charge money, it would be thousands of dollars.

"They see the quality, they don't see the time."

 

[vonAchdorf]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-12-13-creation-club-the-fallout

"The amount of work I've put into the Enclave X-02 armour alone is like 1500 to 1800 hours. And that's just one of our mods. For the most part, I work on this stuff pretty much full-time. On weekends, six hours a day. If I was to charge money, it would be thousands of dollars.

"They see the quality, they don't see the time."

That's a man-year. Don't know if to or :autism awareness:

 

[MWaser]

So he wastes an exceptional amount of time on something that's just a single suit of armor, and then is surprised that people don't appreciate the amount of time and effort he put into it?

He should really have picked up programming to recode game mechanics instead, he could have accomplished so much more within 1800 hours then, that people would actually give a shit about.

 

[Vorark]

For what it's worth, though, the modders don't begrudge Bethesda for trying to pick up a few "cents on the dollar". In their view, the modding market is changing, and not for the better. "Everyone thinks the modders are becoming more mercenary, but that's actually the case for the userbase," says Unoctium. "People expect free content with professional troubleshooting and service. As a result, there's still collaboration between modders, but it's much more transactional, like trading favours."

People used to freely create mods for fun, to fix an annoyance, to improve a beloved game or just to hone their skills. Nowadays it seems they get into it expecting to be showered in glory or donations to Patreon or whatever. Moreover, if the users are too dumb to read instructions, their funeral. No one owns anyone a single cent.

 

[Sigourn]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-12-13-creation-club-the-fallout

"The amount of work I've put into the Enclave X-02 armour alone is like 1500 to 1800 hours. And that's just one of our mods. For the most part, I work on this stuff pretty much full-time. On weekends, six hours a day. If I was to charge money, it would be thousands of dollars.

"They see the quality, they don't see the time."

That's a man-year. Don't know if to or :autism awareness:

I really hope he is talking out of his ass. Spending 1500 hours on a suit of Power Armor is the most autistic thing I've ever heard of. It means that, on average, he worked on the armor 1 hour per day since FO4's release. For a fucking suit of Power Armor.

"The amount of work I've put into the Enclave X-02 armour alone is like 1500 to 1800 hours. And that's just one of our mods. For the most part, I work on this stuff pretty much full-time. On weekends, six hours a day. If I was to charge money, it would be thousands of dollars.

"They see the quality, they don't see the time."

Yeah, too bad that's not how it works, kiddo.

 

[Thane Solus]

Finally! They gona save PC gaming and Single players.

...


"The amount of work I've put into the Enclave X-02 armour alone is like 1500 to 1800 hours. And that's just one of our mods. For the most part, I work on this stuff pretty much full-time. On weekends, six hours a day. If I was to charge money, it would be thousands of dollars.

Negro what? That can be done in one week by a lazy modeler + one more week for scripts and what not. So about 60 hours. What he did in the rest of 1400-1700 hours? Wank on animu?

"Bethesda Modders!"

 

[circ]

Jesus, those dumbfuck modders think Bethesda actually cares about its product and the shit quality is because they're strapped for time. That or they're putting on their best asskissing faces. And 1500 hours is total bullshit.

 

[Reinhardt]

You can make RL power armor in 1500 hours.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Yeah I don't believe that making that took 1500 - 1800 hours. 1500 hours is literally an entire year of near full-time work

"They see the quality, they don't see the time."

Actually I don't see either quality or time in those pics :/

Anyway I'm not really opposed to creation club content as long as it actually adds content to the game. I'm not paying $5 for some fucking armor or a mudcrab pet or an overpowered weapon.. I WOULD however pay $5 for a quality questline or a solid set of mechanical changes that somehow fix Skyrim's broken design.

 

[c2007]

Most of my mods, I have made for myself and never really considered sharing or publishing them. My name is on a couple of collaborations that were released, and I felt more than paid seeing our work in-game and having a portion of the playerbase enjoy it and comment.

Paid mods is bullshit. If you want to get paid for modding, get real you mostly won't. Stop being a hack like me and pursue a job in the game industry. I am a respectable modder, and a pretty shitty coder in comparison to the guys who wrote what I mod.

Something something millenials something something beat your children well, so they will learn to shut the fuck up....

 

[Bester]

We expect our 3d artists to create more sophisticated suits of armor in a week or two depending on the complexity, then it's 3 hours for our animator to rig it. So it's 40-80 hours. "1500 hours" lol.

 

[SCO]

By all accounts, Bethesda handled the apparent controversy well. All of the modders involved describe the incident as a minor misunderstanding. "They're not even that similar," Dogtooth adds.

Nice. The obvious implications are:

-- Better quality, because modders get more motivation.
-- A certain percentage of modders trying to nickel and dime the sheeple.
-- Poorfags getting riled up.

reddit is already REEEEE'ing over this lol

Mmmm

 

[LESS T_T]

In other news, Nexus Mods will add their own reward system using donation pool: https://rd.nexusmods.com/news/13371

In short, modders can opt-in for earning Donation Points based on downloads count, and can redeem them for rewards (cash and others). Donation Pool will be funded by Nexus Mods and its users.

Will Bethesda let this happen? Well, looks like Nexus Mod guys are rather optimistic.

Mod Author Donation System

While a few of the developers continue to work on the new site design, fixing up bugs, improving page load time performance and responding to useful critiques and suggested improvements to the UI and UX from users, I wanted to take some time out to announce a new feature that a few of our other developers are currently working on that we plan to launch in the first quarter of 2018. A new year's resolution of sorts, if you will.

The new functionality I want to talk about today is something I've wanted to do for a long time. Indeed, I initially pitched this idea in the mod author forums back in August to gauge user response and receive feedback from the users who would benefit from the system. Once you initially read what it is, you'll likely realise it's a contentious issue. Please ensure you read all the way to the end before you leave a comment, as it will answer a lot of questions!


To cut a long story short…

We are working on a Donation Points system on Nexus Mods that mod authors will be able to accumulate, through unique file page downloads, that can then be redeemed for rewards through a storefront style system.

Let me cut to the chase and clarify right now that this system definitely isn't going to let any mod author quit their day job. However, it should fulfill that original wish many mod authors have expressed for years now of wanting at least a little something tangible back from their modding hobby, even if it's just some recognition and a couple of free coffees/beers each month to keep them topped up while they're working on their mods.

On a personal level, I've been wanting to find a way to personally donate to mod authors past the occasional donation I throw out to mod authors whose mods I use, from Nexus Mods to you, for a long time now, and this seems like the best way of going about doing that in as fair a way as possible.

At the end of the day, this is going to be a way for Nexus Mods, and the users of Nexus Mods, to donate to and thank all the mod authors on Nexus Mods collectively.


How will this system work?

As a gift, every month we at Nexus Mods will donate a variable amount (expected to be between $5,000 - $10,000 at our discretion) into a central donation pool. This is the base level of contribution, the minimum total pool amount each month from which the Donation Points will be calculated.

When paid modding was first announced for Steam Workshop, lots of users bemoaned the fact that they'd like to see a stronger donation system put in place for mod authors. To that end, we are also working on enabling users of Nexus Mods to contribute into this monthly pool, so that any and all users of Nexus Mods can choose to donate into the total pool for that month if they so wish. Essentially, crowd-funded mod author donations. We'll provide a page on the site where you can see how high the donation pool is for that month, split between what we at Nexus Mods have put in, and what the entire community has put in and we'll probably gamify this a little and let users who donate opt-in to a leaderboard style system that lists how much they've donated and so on.

Donation Points (DP) will have a monetary value attached to them which, at time of writing works out at 1,000 DP being worth $1 USD. This will remain a constant and will not fluctuate or change.

At the end of the month, the total donation money pool will be converted into its DP equivalent. For example, a total donation money pool of $10,000 is the equivalent of 10,000,000 DP. A script will then sum up the total unique downloads that each file page has received in that month, from mod authors who have opted into this scheme, and divide the total available DP amount by the total unique download amount for that month. For example, if the total donation money pool is $10,000 (which is 10,000,000 DP) and the total unique download count is 5,000,000 then that means each unique download would be worth 2 DP. Ergo, a mod author who receives 25,000 unique downloads that month will receive 50,000 DP, which is the equivalent of $50 to redeem in our redemption storefront.

This system is completely opt-in and as such, it's impossible for us to currently calculate how many DP you'll receive per unique download. We can calculate the bare minimum based on a theoretical situation in which every single mod author on the site has opted in all their files, but that would not be a fair approximation. The number will fluctuate from month to month based on the available donation pool as well as what files have been opted into the system.

The metric we are using is the unique download count for a user's mod pages as a whole. Note that this is different from the unique download counts for the individual files you can download from a mod page. For example, if you have 14 files available to download on a single mod page and a user downloads each of those files, your unique download counter is increased by 1, and not 14. I understand this is going to be contentious for some people, especially in regards to big mods that already have a multitude of unique downloads within the community, but unfortunately there are restrictions with our stat tracking that will not enable us to, for example, count all downloads from the start of this scheme as having been reset and "unique" from that point on.


The redemption store - not just about cash

Users can redeem their Donation Points via a section of the site that will act like a storefront. While we will offer options to redeem DP for Pay Pal donations, Amazon gift vouchers and the like, it's also my hope we will offer items and options directly related to the hobby that brought us all here in the first place -- modding! The plan is to offer popular games from storefronts like Steam, Humble Bundle or GOG, subscriptions and software licenses for popular software that modders use for their modding or would like to use but can't afford and even PC hardware, for example, video cards, motherboards, memory and so on and so forth. I know some mod authors are running very old or budget systems. If we could help them improve their systems it could provide tangible benefits to the community as a whole.

Looking into the future, there's also the potential for the redemption store to be sponsored from month to month. For example, we might invite big names in the industry to donate some items to our storefront like Corsair donating some PC peripherals or Nvidia providing us with some video cards, which we'd likely discount in the redemption store for the mod authors.

We will also be offering the ability for mod authors to donate their DP to a few hand-picked charities. Donations will be sent to the selected charity once a nominal yet meaningful amount has been reached.


Why does it have to be another popularity contest? Why are you allocating points based on unique downloads?

As I'm sure you can understand this issue is complicated and can create the potential for a lot of drama in the community. Whatever system we come up with has to be reasonable and most of all, devoid of subjective human opinions as much as possible. That basically means that there should be no one person or group of people in charge of who receives points, whether that's me or anyone else.

Unique download counters are perhaps the most objective metric we have on this site and are a direct representation of the popularity of a file, even more so than endorsements. And most of all, unique download counters are so hard to game in the grand scheme of things that they are the safest bet when it comes to preventing fraud. You'd need to make about 20,000 new accounts, and download the same file using each of them, to make any sort of noticeable dent in the unique download counters across the site. I think that's unlikely. In contrast, if we were to use something like the endorsement system, or the file of the month system, you'd still need to make a lot of new accounts but it would be considerably less difficult to game.

While I appreciate that popularity is not a comparable metric to quality and that in an ideal world quality would be rewarded over popularity (or equally rewarded), I honestly think that this is the only way the system can remain as objective as possible. If you start proposing rewards for file of the month winners or endorsement ratios or anything of that ilk then we run into serious issues in regards to people trying to undermine these systems in order to try and gain an advantage and, in turn, more points. The unique download system cannot be undermined in the same way.

For me, and for us, this needs to be as hands-off as possible. We do not want to be micromanaging disputes between mod authors in regards to this system (e.g. "that author asked for endorsements in his description/comments/YouTube videos and therefore got lots of points when that isn't allowed! Delete their points or ban them!", and similar veins of thought). While I envision there will be some disputes between mod authors over this system, they shouldn't be based on the metric we use.

While I completely understand a system that's less about popularity would be better, no such system exists that won't simply be a huge magnet for drama, people leaving the community over petty reasons and so on and so forth.


Will it be opt-in or opt-out? Will there be restrictions on who can join the system?

This system will be opt-in. As in, if you don't want to be a part of this system you don't need to do anything and you will need to consent to joining up.

There may be stipulations about who can join up pursuant to further conversation with my solicitor about how best to legally set this up, as there may be age and location constraints (e.g. under 18's might need parental consent, and we can't donate or send items to countries that are currently under embargo from the UK/UN, silly stuff like that).


Can I accumulate Donation Points over many months? What's going to be the minimum "payout" for gift cards/Pay Pal donations?

Yes, your points won't disappear each month and will accumulate month after month until you spend them or donate them to others. The minimum donation amount is going to be $10 for Pay Pal and Amazon gift vouchers.


Can I give my points to another user on the site?

Yes, we'll implement a point transfer system for mod authors to give their points to other mod authors or users if they so wish. We'll likely make it possible for you to proactively and automatically donate the DP your files accumulate to users of your choice as well. For example, if you aren't interested in receiving any DP but you'd like to donate any DP you would have earnt to another user (like, say, your favourite mod author), you'll be able to do that.


How will you prevent fraud, or people getting points for uploading mods that aren't theirs, and so on?

Donation Points will be allocated on a NET90 system. That means you won't get your points until 3 months after that month has ended. For example, you wouldn't get your points for January until the start of May, which would be three months (90 days) after the month ended.

This is to give us (and you) a grace period so that any potential issues with a file can be found and rectified before points are allocated and used by a "malicious" author. If a file is found to be against our TOS during this time then it will be dealt with and any Nexus Points that might have been due to that "mod author" from that file will be void.

Case-in-point, imagine someone steals some assets from another mod author without permission and uploads that mod to Nexus Mods, opting in to the points system in the process. Without the NET90 system, if we (or you) don't catch this straight away it could potentially mean this mod author receives points unfairly. The NET90 system provides a buffer for us to root out files that fall foul of our system to ensure, as much as is realistically possible, that only legitimate and "Nexus Legal" files are receiving points.


Why will the contribution Nexus Mods makes to the total donation pool change from month to month?

We cannot commit to an official figure each month as our financial situation and financial needs change from month to month. We need to be flexible on what we can contribute for what, I think, are obvious reasons. However, we aim to commit between the $5,000 to $10,000 range every month.


Have you discussed this system with Bethesda? If Bethesda aren't happy with the system and ask you to remove it, will you remove it?

Bethesda have made it very clear over the years that if you force them to give you an answer on a particular issue it's much easier for them to say "no" than it is to say yes. However, if you simply get on with it and don't ask them, they don't need to say "no" or "yes" and they'll let you know if they have a very serious issue with it.

As far as my solicitor and I are concerned, there really shouldn't be a legal issue here. I'd talk it through with them for sure, but if they're adamant that it has to be removed then I will remove it for any Bethesda games we host as I'm sure you can appreciate getting into a legal fight over this wouldn't be prudent.

I will not remove it for any other game we support that Bethesda has no jurisdiction over.

It would obviously result in a system that benefits far fewer mod authors on the site, but I'm not going to let Bethesda dictate functionality on the site that is about more than just their games now, and has been for many years.


Will you make it possible to opt out specific files and/or distribute points amongst more than one mod author on a specific file?

Yes and yes.

I know there will be some mod authors who'll want to receive points on some files and not on others (e.g. collaboration mods). I also know there are some mod authors collaborating together who will want to be able to split the points that mod makes amongst all the mod authors involved. The uploader of the file will set the point allocation, and we'll likely code something so that all mod authors on that file are notified if that allocation changes at any time (to stop a naughty mod author changing it just before the end of the month in hopes of ripping off all the others).

Just like providing permission for your assets in general or when collaborating, you should document all your discussions in regards to Donation Point allocation so that if there are ever any squabbles and a moderator needs to get involved then you can reference your previous agreements with the person(s) you're collaborating with.


How will you combat people uploading patches for their mods as separate stand-alone file pages to garner more unique downloads?

We will be enforcing strict rules in this regard and bringing our moderation practices up to speed to combat instances where we think people are deliberately going out of their way to try and game the system at the expense of the site and user experience.

While we can plan for eventualities, we don't know what people are going to try until they actually do it. We will react accordingly.


Will other users be able to see how many Donation Points I've accumulated, for example, on my profile page?

No, the amount of Donation Points you have is completely private and only visible to you.


I don't want to use this system and I'm not comfortable with mod authors using my assets in their mods that receive points. Can I prevent this?

Yes. We'll update our own permissions system accordingly to reflect this change as well.

You don't need to be rude about it, but be very clear with any mod authors who ask for your permission, or who have asked for permission in the past, as well as in your own file permissions/credits section that you are not comfortable with anyone receiving points in any mods using your work.

If the mod author using your work tries to kick up a fuss, you can ask a moderator to intervene and set the record straight.

You have the right to stipulate how your assets are used and what benefits other mod authors can receive from that, just as the mod authors asking to use your work have the right to simply walk away and not use your work if they don't like the stipulations being placed on that usage. However, always remember to document any discussions you've had with mod authors in this regard in case of any trouble later, even if that mod author seems genuine and the nicest guy/gal in the world.


When?

We will release this functionality in the first quarter of 2018 unless something goes drastically wrong. We tentatively hope to have something out by the end of January or the beginning of February, but we're saying the first quarter to cover ourselves a little!

Once we have released the system and a few months have passed we will have accumulated enough relevant data to then form some useful conclusions and react, if necessary, accordingly.

As always, your feedback is welcome including anything constructive you might be able to add to improve the system. Please, however, really take note of what I wrote in regards to the use of the unique download counter as the metric being used. When I brought this topic up for discussion with the mod authors in August the response was overwhelmingly positive (as far as mod author responses go!) but there were a lot of questions raised and suggestions provided about using unique downloads which ultimately fall short of the criteria I've set out for the reasons already provided.

 

[Sigourn]

"When paid modding was first announced for Steam Workshop, lots of users bemoaned the fact that they'd like to see a stronger donation system put in place for mod authors."

The modding community is retarded. Like it or not, Creation Club is easily, EASILY, the best way modders have to make money. You don't need a "strong donation system", you need people willing to donate for the mods they like. People already pirate games that are free, why would they pay mod authors for something that is free? A lot of people don't give a shit, but when paid modding arrives they suddenly go "OMG WE NEED STRONG DONATION SYSTEMS".

No bitch, the existing system couldn't be any more simple than it is: there's a donation button, you click it, and the money goes straight to your mod author of choice. Just fucking use it.

 

[Gimble]

If mod authors expect to be paid through donations, they still have to ask and campaign for it actively along with the features of the mod (much like trying to sell a game). The rules of business apply just like anywhere else - nobody is going to spend the extra money unless they are actively made aware of that expectation.

The creation club opens up the possibility of perverse incentives - like Bethesda making money off of unofficial patches created by modders.

 

[Reapa]

If mod authors expect to be paid through donations, they still have to ask and campaign for it actively along with the features of the mod (much like trying to sell a game). The rules of business apply just like anywhere else - nobody is going to spend the extra money unless they are actively made aware of that expectation.

The creation club opens up the possibility of perverse incentives - like Bethesda making money off of unofficial patches created by modders.

duh!

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

I used a more better term in the official bethesda forum about modders that support creation club and paid mods.

I named them whores.

 

[Reapa]

I used a more better term in the official bethesda forum about modders that support creation club and paid mods.

I named them whores.

don't worry, there's nothing of value out there in terms of content mods or even mechanics mods.

 

[Parabalus]

"When paid modding was first announced for Steam Workshop, lots of users bemoaned the fact that they'd like to see a stronger donation system put in place for mod authors."

The modding community is retarded. Like it or not, Creation Club is easily, EASILY, the best way modders have to make money. You don't need a "strong donation system", you need people willing to donate for the mods they like. People already pirate games that are free, why would they pay mod authors for something that is free? A lot of people don't give a shit, but when paid modding arrives they suddenly go "OMG WE NEED STRONG DONATION SYSTEMS".

No bitch, the existing system couldn't be any more simple than it is: there's a donation button, you click it, and the money goes straight to your mod author of choice. Just fucking use it.

This is much better system for getting small amounts of from a lot of people. Paying 5$ to download a specific mod is ridiculous, but giving 5$ to the central nexus pool every few years is something much more palatable to people.

 

[Sigourn]

This is much better system for getting small amounts of from a lot of people. Paying 5$ to download a specific mod is ridiculous, but giving 5$ to the central nexus pool every few years is something much more palatable to people.

Except I'm sure people (in general) are more inclined to give money to the modders they think deserve it as opposed to giving it to a pool that gets distributed among modders they don't care about.

 

[Gimble]

With the proposed system, most of the money will go to the top 20 (which probably account for >90% of the downloads each month), even if a specific user's donation was meant for a niche quest mod. Also, start expecting fraudulent downloads when this is actually in place.

Modders are better off going for a patreon (or similar) style of system if they really want sustained commercial benefit, short of making and selling their own games.

 

[Wayward Son]

Modders are better off going for a patreon (or similar) style of system if they really want sustained commercial benefit, short of making and selling their own games.

This more than anything. Some of the better ones (the team behind Enderal for instance) should just make their own game or get hired for it and the rest should make a Patreon for their supporters.

 

[Big No]

Apparently certain armor and weapon skins on CC are periodically made free for everybody and they rotate every week I think. The quality of these "creations" are so sub par that they literally have to give them away.

 

[Fedora Master]

Just because someone spends thousands of hours on a project doesn't mean it's worth anything or that they're entitled to praise and recognition. Yet most autismo modders are in it exactly for that.

 

[MWaser]

Just because someone spends thousands of hours on a project doesn't mean it's worth anything or that they're entitled to praise and recognition. Yet most autismo modders are in it exactly for that.

Well, if someone is capable of spending thousands of hours on a project that sucks so hard it deserves no praise or recognition (or monetary compensation), then they certainly suck hard enough that absence of their content (because you won't buy it if it's pay-only) shouldn't affect anyone. After all, their content was not worth the time, why should it be worth the money?