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Original Design Document of Deus Ex, Docs of Unmade Thief 4 and Deus Ex 3 Released

LESS T_T

Arcane
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Codex 2014
Someone got these documents from Joe Martin, the writer who wrote the articles about cancelled Ion Storm/Eidos games on Eurogamer, and released them online: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/5crvld/full_dx1_design_doc_with_annotations_by_warren/

SO excited to share this with you, this is a document I've wanted to get my hands on for YEARS, and I just got in contact with the writer of an article on them, Joe Martin (Venerate his name and obey him in all things!), and he sent them to me! He was, as of the writing of the article, unable to fully share them, apparently this has changed.


Early (1997) Deus Ex (Shooter: Majestic Revelations) design document annotated by Warren Spector
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_-knUokw90RzIwUEJsU2pYdWs/view

Related article: The deleted scenes of Deus Ex


Thief 4 game concept submission
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_-knUokw90bGhZVkQxR1hYVHc/view

Related article: The modern day Thief reboot that never was


Cancelled/unmade games of Ion Storm and Origin, include Deus Ex 3 concepts
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_-knUokw90eTRfZEs3amVWQWc/view

Related articles: Ion Storm's lost Deus Ex Sequels, Origin System's unmade games and rejected ideas
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...f_an_original_Deus_Ex_design_doc_surfaces.php

Back in 2013, Eurogamer published a look at what Ion Storm Austin's seminal game Deus Ex could have been, replete with excerpts of an original design document annotated by game director Warren Spector.

Now, it appears a Reddit user convinced the writer of that article and convinced him to share his full copy of the document, along with copies of Ion Storm design documents (circa 2004) for a Thief 4 game that never happened and a packet that includes design documents for a third Ion Storm Deus Ex game (along with a seemingly random assortment of other documents, including what appears to be notes given by film producer Laura Ziskin to Warren Spector on the draft of a script for a Deus Ex movie.)

All of these documents make for fascinating reading, and the Deus Ex design doc is especially notable for game devs because it reveals how significantly the game evolved over the course of its development.

For example, a cursory skim of the document (republished below) reveals that the Deus Ex team originally hoped to ship the game (then referred to as Shooter: Majestic Revelations) by 1998 (it shipped in 2000) with a third act that took place on a space station (cut from the final game) and, if they could swing it, maybe some kind of cooperative multiplayer mode (they couldn't.)

While most of what you'll find in this document has already been discussed at length by the Deus Ex team -- see Warren Spector's original postmortem of the game and, more recently, our oral history of Deus Ex's development -- it's still intriguing to page through a written record of what the game which has influenced so many game designers could have been.
 

Wesp5

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So now that these documents are out, is DX modding advanced enough to add the space station part and others to the game?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So now that these documents are out, is DX modding advanced enough to add the space station part and others to the game?

Deus Ex modding is super advanced, but I'm not sure anybody would be interested.
 

pippin

Guest
Deus Ex in space soundslike something Invisible War could have. You actually interact with aliens in that game, they're more than just enemies.
Also the concept for Thief 4 was sad.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath
Deus Ex in space soundslike something Invisible War could have. You actually interact with aliens in that game, they're more than just enemies.
Also the concept for Thief 4 was sad.
Weren't they, actually, the result of some genetic government project rather than the genuine aliens?
 

Wesp5

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Deus Ex modding is super advanced, but I'm not sure anybody would be interested.

Really? I would have been amazed in getting my hands on some original Troika documents when we recreated the library map for Bloodlines, because I'm pretty sure that our version is different from what they intended to do! Also other groups like the KOTOR2 restored content mod finished even more missing stuff, so why would nobody want this done for DX?
 
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pippin

Guest
Deus Ex in space soundslike something Invisible War could have. You actually interact with aliens in that game, they're more than just enemies.
Also the concept for Thief 4 was sad.
Weren't they, actually, the result of some genetic government project rather than the genuine aliens?

In DX1 they might have been, but Invisible War gets batshit crazy at the end (End of Evangelion tier crazy) and I don't know anymore.

I want to believe?
 

grimace

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Described as an RPG Adventure similar to games like Half-Life (Sierra), Fallout (Interplay), The Dark Project (LookingGlass) Goldeneye (N64).

"Shooter is the near-future, science fiction, roleplaying game that asks, is it better to live free in a world of chaos or live safely in an ordered world of someone else's design?"

I will read this doc. If only I had read it after my first play thru.

"The octopus-like secret society called :rvIajestic 12, with its tentacles touching and guiding, seemingly all human endeavors."

SMERSH/SPECTRE ... Harvey Smith influenced by Ian Fleming?
 

LESS T_T

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Deusex/comments/5d2ly0/deus_ex_archive_announcementmassive_archive_for/

Deus Ex Archive Announcement,Massive archive for anything DX

Joe Martin, the writer who got me a copy of the DX Annotated design document, also got me in touch with a fellow DX super fan "X E N ", who like me, has a massive archive of files related to DX.

Except much, much larger and containing some info not very publicized (though to my surprise actually available for some time!)

We've just had a fantastic talk on steam and are happy to announce the eventual merger and mass availability of the archives.

we're also calling to anyone with any DX archives or in fact any files to contribute!

It will be a long effort to sort all this stuff for release, so bear with us.

The current plan is to release them via torrent, and size abiding, google drive.

We will be researching hosting options, and are also calling to anyone with such means to host it.

The current archive is going to be at least 60ishGB+

The contents include- -mods -fanart -podcasts -interviews -documents

I've created a sub over at reddit /r/dxarchive . Not really ready, but still feel free to post there.

Massive credits to X E N, AKA /u/op4xendance , an incredible labor of love from her, I've just contributed about 8gbs of mods. The rest is all hers!

Please respond with thoughts/comments or especially if your able to contribute!

And remember to share the news! Tell your friends!

Thank you!

Edit : Just wanted to make sure I was 100% clear on the ANY files bit, incomplete mods/artworks/ your old outdated walk-through/ if it's related to even mildly to Deus Ex, and even if you don't think we could possibly want it, we probably want it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dxarchive/

I wonder if there are Invisible War-related design docs (for the sake of curiosity).
 

Siel

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The Thief series has always been held back by esoteric, unrecognizable fiction and passive, slow-paced gameplay

Thief 4 will feature pick-up- and- play simplicity. The game will adhere to accepted console interface standards and, unlike priorgames in the Thief series, will feature accessible and familiar fictional concepts

we want tactical, visceral combat... the combat should feel good and the player should always feel like he has influence over the strategic situation.

Similar games: Max Payne, GTA


:prosper:
 
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Unkillable Cat

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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
The Thief series has always been held back by esoteric, unrecognizable fiction and passive, slow-paced gameplay

Thief 4 will feature pick-up- and- play simplicity. The game will adhere to accepted console interface standards and, unlike priorgames in the Thief series, will feature accessible and familiar fictional concepts

we want tactical, visceral combat... the combat should feel good and the player should always feel like he has influence over the strategic situation.

Similar games: Max Payne, GTA

jtdr5.jpg
 

Gerrard

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Oddly, you almost never hear designers talking about the importance of playing a role when they talk about
roleplaying games. Typically, characters in RPG's are defined by a restrictive character class or a list of
statistics as long as your arm - it isn't much of an overstatement to say that an RPG is defined as a game
that defines its central character by a bunch of numbers. Characters typically have 6-12 attributes (Strength,
Agility, Intelligence, etc.) and often have a list of skills tracked at a fine level of granularity (giving you, for
example, a Lockpick score of 12, a Sharpshooter score of 72, a computer hacker skill of 53, etc.)

This, to us, seems shallow and even dangerous, far too often resulting in two players performing the same
actions but coming back with different results because of seemingly insignificant differences between their
characters and inadequate feed hack. Does anyone really think the difference between a 72 Sharpshooter
score and a 73 should have any impact on gameplay? Is there any way to provide players with adequate
feedback about such fine distinctions? Does anyone think this is fun?
This will trigger some people.
 
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The first Thief was (and is) the perfect stealth sim. And a great game beyond that, one of the best of all time.

Dishonored is watered down pap that serves no purpose, there's no tension because there is no threat. That game is a huge waste of incredible art direction and a great world. The only thing it can teach is "why bother?"

Design docs for that Dagger of Ways abomination sound even worse than Thi4f. Holy shit.
 

vortex

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The first Thief was (and is) the perfect stealth sim. And a great game beyond that, one of the best of all time.

Dishonored is watered down pap that serves no purpose, there's no tension because there is no threat. That game is a huge waste of incredible art direction and a great world. The only thing it can teach is "why bother?"

Design docs for that Dagger of Ways abomination sound even worse than Thi4f. Holy shit.

Thief 4(Ion Storm) sounds better on paper than Thief4(2014). Thief 4(Ion Storm) should have happened for better or for the worse. It would change the course of other stealth games. And, eventually Thief (2014) wouldn't have been such disappointment.
I would like to see Dagger of Ways gameplay in some sci fi thief game. Maybe as part of the playstyle in Infiltrator demo.
 
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Thi4f was only a disappointment to newfags. Everyone else knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, from the very first gameplay videos, that it was going to be shit.
 

Soulcucker

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Messages
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Oddly, you almost never hear designers talking about the importance of playing a role when they talk about
roleplaying games. Typically, characters in RPG's are defined by a restrictive character class or a list of
statistics as long as your arm - it isn't much of an overstatement to say that an RPG is defined as a game
that defines its central character by a bunch of numbers. Characters typically have 6-12 attributes (Strength,
Agility, Intelligence, etc.) and often have a list of skills tracked at a fine level of granularity (giving you, for
example, a Lockpick score of 12, a Sharpshooter score of 72, a computer hacker skill of 53, etc.)

This, to us, seems shallow and even dangerous, far too often resulting in two players performing the same
actions but coming back with different results because of seemingly insignificant differences between their
characters and inadequate feed hack. Does anyone really think the difference between a 72 Sharpshooter
score and a 73 should have any impact on gameplay? Is there any way to provide players with adequate
feedback about such fine distinctions? Does anyone think this is fun?
This will trigger some people.

Who?
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
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Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
that thief 4 sounds like a massive decline.

we will never get another good theif game again no matter what it seems



Franchise Potential


The Thief series has always been held back by esoteric, unrecognizable fiction and passive, slow-paced gameplay.


Thief 4—Dagger of Ways intends to broaden the appeal of the series by providing faster-paced, more active gameplay and using more universally recognizable (stronger) fictional elements.


We will stay true to the original high concepts of the Thief series: Garrett as a character, a deeply-simulated gothic city and stealth-action gameplay. As with the previous Thief games, various factions vie for control of the City.


Moving Garrett into the modern world opens the way for many potential upgrades and extensions to the series over time: Vehicles, Data Hacking, Counter-surveillance, etc.
 

tormund

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Heh, some people were defending the idea of modern day Thief in that older thread. This will... change their mind.

"The Thief series has always been held back by esoteric, unrecognizable fiction and passive, slow-paced gameplay."
:hmmm:
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,925
Oddly, you almost never hear designers talking about the importance of playing a role when they talk about
roleplaying games. Typically, characters in RPG's are defined by a restrictive character class or a list of
statistics as long as your arm - it isn't much of an overstatement to say that an RPG is defined as a game
that defines its central character by a bunch of numbers. Characters typically have 6-12 attributes (Strength,
Agility, Intelligence, etc.) and often have a list of skills tracked at a fine level of granularity (giving you, for
example, a Lockpick score of 12, a Sharpshooter score of 72, a computer hacker skill of 53, etc.)

This, to us, seems shallow and even dangerous, far too often resulting in two players performing the same
actions but coming back with different results because of seemingly insignificant differences between their
characters and inadequate feed hack. Does anyone really think the difference between a 72 Sharpshooter
score and a 73 should have any impact on gameplay? Is there any way to provide players with adequate
feedback about such fine distinctions? Does anyone think this is fun?
This will trigger some people.

Who?
Everyone who uses "storyfag" unironically.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,754
Besides that this modern-day Thief 4 idea is very close to the original DX itself, later in the year 2004 in which it was proposed, VTM: Bloodlines came out. Of course it's a very different game, but then it already covers a lot of the Thief 4 ideas, like a "deeply-simulated gothic city and stealth-action gameplay" and "various factions vie for control of the City." Only with the whole vampire bonus on top and still it failed to be profitable...
 

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