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On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!
- Thread starter Curufinwe
- Start date
newcomer
Learned
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 919
Get the Fire Wielder to boil the river
Actually damn fortunate we have this guy, without him we wouldn't really stand a chance.
Not to mention that we have no ways to fight the giant (unless someone wants to start the legend of David vs Goliath in this LP?)
Actually, I think there's a place much better than A, B, and C, which is:
However, for this one to be effective the hill must be sufficiently high enough / too many casualties if they try to climb (maybe we can set up a FIREWALL?). Even if we end up picking C, spot D will have to be at least watched because they might try to surround us
And of course, another issue if we pick this one is how to lure them there, but this is not a semi-open
Those spots are there because they're basically where they're coming through on the way to your camp. D would be excellent but, there's always one but, they could merrily ignore your army and waltz right into camp unopposed.
AstralStorm
Educated
Why would you duel if you can just kill the leader and see the band disperse?
If he's as foolhardy as the rest of them, he might even plain charge with the rest of the band...
and if he doesn't, there might be a sneaky way to get rid of him.
If he's as foolhardy as the rest of them, he might even plain charge with the rest of the band...
and if he doesn't, there might be a sneaky way to get rid of him.
TOME
Cuckmaster General
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,820
How do they know where our camp is? Or did it takes us that long to send those scouting parties that they managed to scout us?
Monty
Arcane
C for me too.
As the beastmen we have encountered have seemed to be under some spell/influence it will be interesting to see whether this came from the leader or somewhere else (ie if we kill the leader perhaps the spell will be lifted). Perhaps we should focus all our javelins and fire on him and hope he leads the charge.
As the beastmen we have encountered have seemed to be under some spell/influence it will be interesting to see whether this came from the leader or somewhere else (ie if we kill the leader perhaps the spell will be lifted). Perhaps we should focus all our javelins and fire on him and hope he leads the charge.
That is probably the most insane illustration I have seen in quite a while...
Internet
Scholar
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2012
- Messages
- 136
Gives "bear cavalry" a new meaning, doesn't it?
2 A, 1 B, 16 C. Again, a clear victor.
The army left immediately for the chosen site of battle, employing forced marches to get there in time.
After three days of hard travel we got on the slope of the chosen hill. Not a moment too soon: our forward ranging scouts soon reported back, saying we had perhaps seven hours before the beastmen got there. Just enough time for a quick sleep and meal.
The battle would take place late morning, with the sun watching everything from right above our heads. It was a cloudless day of late summer, warm but not scorching hot, ideal weather for fighting.
The two hosts assembled, one on a slope overlooking the lake's shore and preventing access to the lands beyond, the other in the plains below. One organized and grimly silent, the other a noisy rabble. One preceeded by a bald man, holding a red stone in his hand, the other by an hairy giant, wielding two axes made of a strange grey, smooth material.
Battle would be waged soon, but first strategies would have to be decided...
Ok, yet another open update. I want to hear what will be your tactical approach to this first major battle of the LP. I'll make a list of your 'units' and ask how you want to deploy them, what their tasks will be in the upcoming battle and how much freedom of action you want to give their commanders (more freedom will leave more leeway for me to intervene, which might be a mixed blessing of course).
The units:
75 obsidian warriors, the core of your army, armed with obsidian spear, axe and 3 javelins;
25 stone warriors, equally trained but inferiorly armed (stone spear and axe, no javelins);
5 bear friends, with 7 bears (their effectiveness is a complete unknown);
1 Wielder of Fire, with his two apprentices. Adept at ranged flaming. I will control the Wielder, no orders for him, sorry, but you can tell me how you want to use the weaker apprentices. Suggestions for the Wielder are of course welcome, but I will be the one to decide.
Enemy units, now that you can see them clearly:
140 fur clad, bare handed, muscular men;
10 fur clad, wood and bone club wielding even more muscular men (those guys are bigger and most definitely threatening to look at);
1 fur clad, dual axe wielding insanely big man (the leader. He's the biggest and most muscled man your tribe has ever seen, even from his distance he radiates menace).
The map:
Black oval is your army, which I will draw again with the battle update when you tell me how to deploy your people. Red rectangles are the enemy: bigger one is the 140 'normal' guys, the smaller rectangle is the leader with his retinue.
The different green and grey colors are elevations. You're staying on the lower, steeper slopes of this hill. If those guys want to get to you they'll have to climb a pretty steep incline. If they decide to ignore you and head to camp they'll more or less commit suicide, as they'd be crushed between a rock (you) and an hard place (the lake).
Alright, get planning. If you have questions, if anything is unclear or whatever, ask. I'll do my best to check this update often and answer.
The army left immediately for the chosen site of battle, employing forced marches to get there in time.
After three days of hard travel we got on the slope of the chosen hill. Not a moment too soon: our forward ranging scouts soon reported back, saying we had perhaps seven hours before the beastmen got there. Just enough time for a quick sleep and meal.
The battle would take place late morning, with the sun watching everything from right above our heads. It was a cloudless day of late summer, warm but not scorching hot, ideal weather for fighting.
The two hosts assembled, one on a slope overlooking the lake's shore and preventing access to the lands beyond, the other in the plains below. One organized and grimly silent, the other a noisy rabble. One preceeded by a bald man, holding a red stone in his hand, the other by an hairy giant, wielding two axes made of a strange grey, smooth material.
Battle would be waged soon, but first strategies would have to be decided...
Ok, yet another open update. I want to hear what will be your tactical approach to this first major battle of the LP. I'll make a list of your 'units' and ask how you want to deploy them, what their tasks will be in the upcoming battle and how much freedom of action you want to give their commanders (more freedom will leave more leeway for me to intervene, which might be a mixed blessing of course).
The units:
75 obsidian warriors, the core of your army, armed with obsidian spear, axe and 3 javelins;
25 stone warriors, equally trained but inferiorly armed (stone spear and axe, no javelins);
5 bear friends, with 7 bears (their effectiveness is a complete unknown);
1 Wielder of Fire, with his two apprentices. Adept at ranged flaming. I will control the Wielder, no orders for him, sorry, but you can tell me how you want to use the weaker apprentices. Suggestions for the Wielder are of course welcome, but I will be the one to decide.
Enemy units, now that you can see them clearly:
140 fur clad, bare handed, muscular men;
10 fur clad, wood and bone club wielding even more muscular men (those guys are bigger and most definitely threatening to look at);
1 fur clad, dual axe wielding insanely big man (the leader. He's the biggest and most muscled man your tribe has ever seen, even from his distance he radiates menace).
The map:
Black oval is your army, which I will draw again with the battle update when you tell me how to deploy your people. Red rectangles are the enemy: bigger one is the 140 'normal' guys, the smaller rectangle is the leader with his retinue.
The different green and grey colors are elevations. You're staying on the lower, steeper slopes of this hill. If those guys want to get to you they'll have to climb a pretty steep incline. If they decide to ignore you and head to camp they'll more or less commit suicide, as they'd be crushed between a rock (you) and an hard place (the lake).
Alright, get planning. If you have questions, if anything is unclear or whatever, ask. I'll do my best to check this update often and answer.
Multiple Sarcasm
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Messages
- 3,181
1st row: obsidian and fire wielders.
2nd row: bears and stone.
Tactics:
Depending on how close the beastmen's formation will be, start throwing javelins and fireballs either at their tested maximum range (close formation) or medium range (loose formation). Account for elevation for distance.
Once out of javelins and the beastmen are half-way up the slope, hold fire, move the 2nd row forward and charge with it.
Once the 2nd row is engaged, charge with obsidian.
If/once our mundane forces are overwhelmed, have the fire wielders resume bombardment until either side falls.
2nd row: bears and stone.
Tactics:
Depending on how close the beastmen's formation will be, start throwing javelins and fireballs either at their tested maximum range (close formation) or medium range (loose formation). Account for elevation for distance.
Once out of javelins and the beastmen are half-way up the slope, hold fire, move the 2nd row forward and charge with it.
Once the 2nd row is engaged, charge with obsidian.
If/once our mundane forces are overwhelmed, have the fire wielders resume bombardment until either side falls.
Zwist
Learned
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 236
Multiple sarcasms approach is sensible.
So I'm for it.
I do however ask myself what effect it would have on the beastmen if we killed the giant.
Unlikely as it is, maybe they would flee in terror.
I would rather like that.
But seeing as the wielder does what he wants anyway, he is probably going after him.
Also I hope they are not animalworshippers being able to control beasts(as in our teddies).
So I'm for it.
I do however ask myself what effect it would have on the beastmen if we killed the giant.
Unlikely as it is, maybe they would flee in terror.
I would rather like that.
But seeing as the wielder does what he wants anyway, he is probably going after him.
Also I hope they are not animalworshippers being able to control beasts(as in our teddies).
Cassidy
Arcane
Establish a first line of Obsidian and stone warriors to defend the hill. Take initiative in the attack with the fire wielders that should be behind the defensive line raining fire at the beasts while the bears should be ready. The enemies will be weakened enough by the time they close to melee. Use bears after the battle was already won to chase the retreating enemies and wipe out their remnants, because their actual effectiveness is unknown thus using them in an important role would be unwise, while using them for such would be a less risky way of determining whether they could actually serve in a real fight or not.
TOME
Cuckmaster General
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,820
Just like Multiple Sarcasm's plan, but after releasing bears, we should quickly assess the situation. If our javelins and Wielder killed lots of them then continue with the plan. If not, then withdraw. We should be able to get across the river which should give us extra time to escape.
No point to keep fighting if defeat is certain before our main forces clash. Warmongers not going to like it but that's my plan.
No point to keep fighting if defeat is certain before our main forces clash. Warmongers not going to like it but that's my plan.
Hrm, I kind of like multiple sarcasm's plan, but only at the beginning. I think the second part is dodgy. Having his second row attack is not good. 25 men and 7 bears will not hold the survivors of 140 warriors, sorry. So, my plan (copying shamelessly a bit of his plan)
1st row: obsidian and fire wielders.
2nd row: stone
3rd row: bears
Tactics:
- Depending on how close the beastmen's formation will be, start throwing javelins and fireballs either at their tested maximum range (close formation) or medium range (loose formation). Account for elevation for distance. The leader and his retinue are primary targets.
- Once out of javelins and the beastmen are close, hold fire. The fire wielders go to the second row, the stone armed warriors join the obsidian armed in the first row. Form a line tight but as wide as possible. It is to our advantage, if they are scattered and disordered, to stay in formation. Think of it as a primitive group of spear warriors (hello there, king Leonidas)
- Have the bears from third row move sharply to the south, still staying up.
- If the beastmen mainly follow the bears, crush them with a charge to their flank
- If instead they come for the warriors, stay still and face them as a tight line. Between the tight formation, our reach advantage due to spears and height, we should be able to hold.
- Have the bears friend with their bears circle and attack the enemies from the flank, and the wielders use fire of opportunity
- Fight it out to the death. We can't retreat, they're faster than us.
- If they flee, chase them and kill as many as possible (but do NOT go near the forest)
Possible change of tactics due to events:
- If the leader falls and they are afraid or disoriented, fire from above till out of javelins, then charge. We might be able to break them
- If they split, divide out forces in an equal number of parties. Always try to counter their charges with a tight formation and spears forward
- If the wielder of fire runs on his own, do NOT back him up. If he survives, nice. If not, a pity. I'm not going to lose the war if he decides to do some sort of heroic charge.
- if it looks hopeless early on, stone warriors and bear friend shall sacrifice themselves to buy us time while the wielders and obsidian armed retire
1st row: obsidian and fire wielders.
2nd row: stone
3rd row: bears
Tactics:
- Depending on how close the beastmen's formation will be, start throwing javelins and fireballs either at their tested maximum range (close formation) or medium range (loose formation). Account for elevation for distance. The leader and his retinue are primary targets.
- Once out of javelins and the beastmen are close, hold fire. The fire wielders go to the second row, the stone armed warriors join the obsidian armed in the first row. Form a line tight but as wide as possible. It is to our advantage, if they are scattered and disordered, to stay in formation. Think of it as a primitive group of spear warriors (hello there, king Leonidas)
- Have the bears from third row move sharply to the south, still staying up.
- If the beastmen mainly follow the bears, crush them with a charge to their flank
- If instead they come for the warriors, stay still and face them as a tight line. Between the tight formation, our reach advantage due to spears and height, we should be able to hold.
- Have the bears friend with their bears circle and attack the enemies from the flank, and the wielders use fire of opportunity
- Fight it out to the death. We can't retreat, they're faster than us.
- If they flee, chase them and kill as many as possible (but do NOT go near the forest)
Possible change of tactics due to events:
- If the leader falls and they are afraid or disoriented, fire from above till out of javelins, then charge. We might be able to break them
- If they split, divide out forces in an equal number of parties. Always try to counter their charges with a tight formation and spears forward
- If the wielder of fire runs on his own, do NOT back him up. If he survives, nice. If not, a pity. I'm not going to lose the war if he decides to do some sort of heroic charge.
- if it looks hopeless early on, stone warriors and bear friend shall sacrifice themselves to buy us time while the wielders and obsidian armed retire
AstralStorm
Educated
I kind of like the plan, however since we have a few hours, we might be able to prepare a fiery suprise for the barbarians, to be ignited when they charge.
If possible, adding additional concealed pits to slow them down could be quite useful - but perhaps not as useful since they will be charging uphill if at all.
Make sure people are equipped with rocks to be thrown from a distance - good addition to the javelins and more plentiful.
Not sure our folks are the best rock throwers out there, but this might be good enough to at least weaken the barbarians.
I wouldn't leave bears as the last line though, far too unpredictable and untested, might just add to the chaos of the retreat.
I'd use them right before the second line of the infantry. If anything, they'll buy us some time.
It's silly to assume we'll be able to reliably flank the superior force from our position - we have the advantage of the slope, but that might not be enough...
Remember that we're mostly to rout them, not murder.
As to the contingency plan: prepare the best runner to be sent out if we're in dire straits to inform our camp in advance. Due to our reasonably defensive position, the militia should be able to hold if warned.
Pity we haven't prepared any smoke signals instead, could've been more reliable.
If possible, adding additional concealed pits to slow them down could be quite useful - but perhaps not as useful since they will be charging uphill if at all.
Make sure people are equipped with rocks to be thrown from a distance - good addition to the javelins and more plentiful.
Not sure our folks are the best rock throwers out there, but this might be good enough to at least weaken the barbarians.
I wouldn't leave bears as the last line though, far too unpredictable and untested, might just add to the chaos of the retreat.
I'd use them right before the second line of the infantry. If anything, they'll buy us some time.
It's silly to assume we'll be able to reliably flank the superior force from our position - we have the advantage of the slope, but that might not be enough...
Remember that we're mostly to rout them, not murder.
As to the contingency plan: prepare the best runner to be sent out if we're in dire straits to inform our camp in advance. Due to our reasonably defensive position, the militia should be able to hold if warned.
Pity we haven't prepared any smoke signals instead, could've been more reliable.
Esquilax
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2010
- Messages
- 4,833
Should our fire apprentices focus on the front-lines and the leader of the beastmen? If he and his elite troops are severely wounded or killed, it'll hurt their morale. They may be feral beasts, but even beasts know fear. The leader probably has powerful magic at his disposal, taking him out would make the possibility of the beastmen using our bears against us far less likely.
Btw, I approve of all the revisions in Vernydar's plan. I especially like the idea of using the bears to hit their flanks once we're in melee range. As long as our formation stays disciplined, our bears can wreak havoc by catching them unawares. More importantly, I think that it's the only way to ensure that our bears can make a difference in the battle without being charmed by the enemy. We have to assume that they posses some sort of control over animals.
Also, AstralStorm mentioned this, but can we make pre-battle preparations to make things more favourable to us? IIRC, there were a few trees in the hills, if we can chop off branches, gather dead leaves and pile them around the hill, we can create a firewall around us.
Btw, I approve of all the revisions in Vernydar's plan. I especially like the idea of using the bears to hit their flanks once we're in melee range. As long as our formation stays disciplined, our bears can wreak havoc by catching them unawares. More importantly, I think that it's the only way to ensure that our bears can make a difference in the battle without being charmed by the enemy. We have to assume that they posses some sort of control over animals.
Also, AstralStorm mentioned this, but can we make pre-battle preparations to make things more favourable to us? IIRC, there were a few trees in the hills, if we can chop off branches, gather dead leaves and pile them around the hill, we can create a firewall around us.
Form a rough phalanx of the obsidian and stone warriors in the centre (about three ranks deep, so all can throw their javelins and so it's sufficiently long to avoid being encircled). Bears to the side to counter-attack or defend against encirclement (likely they'll give the centre formation enough time to readjust to the flanking attempt). Apprentices just behind the main phalanx and gunning for the giant.
I also say we get the men up an hour early to dig some punji stakes to the sides and in front of us.
I also say we get the men up an hour early to dig some punji stakes to the sides and in front of us.
Computer Gamer Refugee
Learned
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2012
- Messages
- 382
I would also throw out that that once the bears get into battle the odds of them being able to tell between friend and foe seems pretty dang low, so make sure they either attack on a flank or when no one else is in combat.
We should probably make 2 large fires to funnel the enemy so that their forces are a bit more manageable as well.
There's a huge chance that we'll burn down the surrounding area, but the fire wielder and his apprentice will be bombarding the area so something is likely to catch fire regardless.
There's a huge chance that we'll burn down the surrounding area, but the fire wielder and his apprentice will be bombarding the area so something is likely to catch fire regardless.
We should also be careful over which we send first; the bears or the wielder. Seeing fire rain down upon the surrounding area could potentially spook them and cause them to run amuck in our own lines.
Esquilax
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2010
- Messages
- 4,833
I figure we'd rain javelins and fire on them from afar, then once the battle came to melee range on the hills, our bears would hit their southern flank.
How about this idea: just before we get into melee range, our front-liners will pull out axes because the enemy will in all likelihood be too close for spears. However, the row of men behind them will provide support with spears. I confess I'm not familiar with how Greek hoplites used spear tactics, but would this work?
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