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Ok so Betrayal at Krondor is awesome

Mrowak

Arcane
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Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
Wyrmlord said:
Will this make the game too easy? No. It will keep you at par, and you will be less taken aback by certain combat situations that are near impossible to win. The game was designed with the precise expectation that you have already done maximum possible exploration. It's why the end boss is 100% impossible to beat without certain very specific spells - the game expects that you have already explored fully and gotten those spells. I had to start the game all over again after reaching the end - I learnt I had nothing to use against the end boss.

Pardon me, but out of curiosity, what spell are you talking about? Is it

Fetters of Rime?
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
In order to beat the boss, you need one or two of these:

Gambit of Eight
Rusalki summoning spell (don't remember the name)
Spell to draw another person closer

from my vague memory. Most basic, intermediate, and even advanced spells do zero damage against the boss.
 

Mrowak

Arcane
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
Wyrmlord said:
In order to beat the boss, you need one or two of these:

Gambit of Eight
Rusalki summoning spell (don't remember the name)
Spell to draw another person closer

from my vague memory. Most basic, intermediate, and even advanced spells do zero damage against the boss.


I see. I appraoach it differently.

Each time I fight Makala I cast "fetters of rime" spell. It does not damage him or the demons but it does paralyze them. After that I suck away all their strength with whatitsname spell and pummel them do death with staves. The fact that by the end of the game Owyn is basically a Kung-fu master helps a lot.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
I think that a lot of impossible encounters frustrated my younger self to no end when I played it. So much that I even considered using a trainer to buff up my characters to 100%...heh. But doing that Gorath or Locklear would bug out the game and make them unable to wield swords...funny, realy.
 

Sergiu64

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Glory to Ukraine
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Sic semper tyrannis.
Dragon's Skin is the game winning spell. Makes one of your guys plain invulnerable for a number of rounds. It's like one of the few ways to deal with that Rusalki quest in chapter 2.

I remember the first time I played BaK, I was barely understanding English... Thought Owyn was some kind of shepard. Was wondering why swordsmen were forcing a shepard to go with them. Kept duying due to eating poisoned/spoiled rations.

When I played it again at a later date I realized how awesome the game is.
 

mutile

Novice
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
29
Wyrmlord said:
In order to beat the boss, you need one or two of these:

Gambit of Eight
Rusalki summoning spell (don't remember the name)
Spell to draw another person closer

from my vague memory. Most basic, intermediate, and even advanced spells do zero damage against the boss.

Not true at all, none of those spells are needed and you start with invitation.

Boss easily beaten with just skin of the dragon.
 

mutile

Novice
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
29
Wyrmlord said:
The game was designed with the precise expectation that you have already done maximum possible exploration. It's why the end boss is 100% impossible to beat without certain very specific spells - the game expects that you have already explored fully and gotten those spells. I had to start the game all over again after reaching the end - I learnt I had nothing to use against the end boss.
.

Exploration is not needed to find spells, sufficient spells can be purchased from shops and all the spells in the game can be learned from the cup in the last chapter.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Not all. You can't have the patrus translation spell.

Oh how i OCD-raged

I think some spells are only hidden in the wilderness too (like mad's gods rage or touch of lims-kragma)
 

Johannes

Arcane
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Nov 20, 2010
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casting coach
Wyrmlord said:
Great to see some perspectives from the developer.

I disagree with Zomg's suggestion that you move straight to the main quest objectives.

Avoid it completely and get the most out of the world in the first chapter. Why?

You really do not know what to expect in the chapters beyond the first one, and maximum early exploration at the start of the game will

1) get you all the spells that you never know you might desparately need

2) get you all the training from the trainers throughout the game's world, to keep your characters combat ready

3) get you enough gems and precious stones to sell, to be sure you have enough money

4) use that money to buy discount Greatswords and Dragon's Scale Armor from a discount shop north of the map, and bless them from the Temple of Kahooli north of the map

Will this make the game too easy? No. It will keep you at par, and you will be less taken aback by certain combat situations that are near impossible to win. The game was designed with the precise expectation that you have already done maximum possible exploration. It's why the end boss is 100% impossible to beat without certain very specific spells - the game expects that you have already explored fully and gotten those spells. I had to start the game all over again after reaching the end - I learnt I had nothing to use against the end boss.

The downside of my approach is that it leaves James untrained, but when Locklear has already killed most of James' potential enemies in the first chapter, James does not need to be as strong.
Or maybe you just suck at this game :/
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Messages
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Divinity: Original Sin
SCO said:
Not all. You can't have the patrus translation spell.
Yes you can, at least pre-patch on the floppy version. I was OCD enough on my first run to actually get them all :M

Also, if you DO patch, you'll need to use the cup anyway as it becomes impossible to complete one of the sidequests and get the associated spell (Mind Melt or something like that)
 

mutile

Novice
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
29
"UNION
Owyn will never need this Spell. (He can technically obtain it, though, by using the Cup of Rlnn Skrr in Chapter 8 or 9.)"
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Sergiu64 said:
Dragon's Skin is the game winning spell. Makes one of your guys plain invulnerable for a number of rounds. It's like one of the few ways to deal with that Rusalki quest in chapter 2.

I remember the first time I played BaK, I was barely understanding English... Thought Owyn was some kind of shepard. Was wondering why swordsmen were forcing a shepard to go with them. Kept duying due to eating poisoned/spoiled rations.

When I played it again at a later date I realized how awesome the game is.

Agreed. I was like....'Why do I keep getting diseased? Hmmm,...wait, why can't these rations stack? Ah-HA!'
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I played the game 3 times at various years before i found that the spider poisons weapons.
 
Repressed Homosexual
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Mar 29, 2010
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Location
Ottawa, Can.
I tried to start it again. Once more, I end up leaving in disgust.

The 3D view is just too awful. I cannot see around me, and the 3D space is all messed up. I will see a house to my left, I will turn left... and discover that I have missed it, so I need to move back and turn again... the 3D movement is full of annoying stuff like this. I have never played a game where exploration was this frustrating. It just makes me too scared of missing important NPCs, locations or sidequests.

Shame because the writing and characters show a lot of promise.
 

Renegen

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
4,062
You need to reduce the step count, then you'll take smaller steps and I think also turn better. I played the game the first time many years after it came out. The graphics always "sucked" and yet the game is very immersive, the game has aged really well and the graphics are not a problem. Plus, you don't need to visit every house.
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
Black_Willow said:
It's a very poor RPG, more of an interactive book.
Does it really matter what pretentious, pseudo-intellectual label you give to any game?
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
I remember this game , it was very good and faithful to raymond E. feist first books, the plot is the same or almost. If you loved the story you cant possibly miss his books, in my opinion its very good fantasy in a believable world.Its keeps going on with the next generations and descendants of heroes.Theres truly material for more rpgs there, off course nothing of such will happen ever again.. ah the 90's..
 

Hekateras

Educated
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
70
Location
Germany
Black_Willow said:
It's a very poor RPG, more of an interactive book.

"It's not the kind of RPG I'm used to playing" does not equal "It's a poor RPG". That's as asinine as saying that it's not a good RPG because you can't customise the characters. Kindly get a clue.

Mortmal said:
I remember this game , it was very good and faithful to raymond E. feist first books, the plot is the same or almost. If you loved the story you cant possibly miss his books, in my opinion its very good fantasy in a believable world.Its keeps going on with the next generations and descendants of heroes.Theres truly material for more rpgs there, off course nothing of such will happen ever again.. ah the 90's..

FEIST DID NOT WRITE THE STORY OF THE GAME. Neal Hallford did.

Also, Feist kind of sucks, and I'm saying that as someone who grew up loving his books. The more I look back and investigate the backstory, the more I'm convinced that the stuff that was actually good about the series usually involved cribbing off of someone else - the original Friday Nighters (= the rest of his group of college buddies who, together, came up with the world and lore for Midkemia, and are thus presumably responsible for a lot of the awesome in the first trilogy), the various co-writers, and of course Neal Hallford. Unless you think it's a coincidence that what's widely considered the best books in the series (Honoured Enemy, Empire Trilogy, Magician) either had co-writers or input from the aforementioned Friday Nighters.

From what I can tell, the last few sagas in the series have been more fully original Feist flavour, which explains why he keeps jumping between trite plots without bothering to resolve them fully and the characters are bland copies of previous ones.

The novelisation of BaK mostly sucks as well, sadly. There's some great moments, but the characters really suffer from Feist's take on them. I mean, that scene where Gorath accidentally punches Owyn unconscious... Way to turn a great story into The Three Stooges, Ray. T_T Now that I think of it, Kendaric in the novelisation of Return to Krondor received a similar "let's randomly turn this character into a comedic punching bag" treatment. Maybe Feist just doesn't want the risk of the young mage character becoming more interesting than young Pug. T_T


If you want a great story, freaking play the game, and try to be as completionist as you can. That's the only way you're going to get the awesome you should get from it. I cringe at the thought of people only knowing the characters and the story through the mess Feist made of them.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Divinity: Original Sin
It's not so much that he blew it up, but the way he did it. Then again that book was horribly rushed towards the end and several of the reveals made no goddamn sense. Shame, as I kinda liked Flight of the Nighthawks and thought it was his best in a very long time.
 

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