Official Codex Star Citizen Squadron Thread

[anus_pounder]

 

[Grunker]

Blaine, would you kindly explain to me why you think it is unreasonable to question the fact that the man can do both an insanely complex open world, non-linear single-player game AND a very complex, dynamic MMO on a budget that is way, way smaller than usual for just one of these?

From everything I have read, it seems that the single-player will be a version of the multiplayer game without the additional players. You're welcome to tell me otherwise though.

If you're right, I can't for the life of me understand why every single developer in existance isn't doing this with their own games. Making the perfect SP and MP game all in one for the price of half of each seems a sweet deal for any company that wants to broaden its audience. Weird how no one is doing it, except those that concentrate on one of them and make an exceedingly simple version of the other.

Your defense of Chris is reminiscent of Roguey's worship of Sawyer

 

[Blaine]

Grunker

Consider what Egosoft managed to accomplish with the X series, having a much smaller team, less talent, nowhere close to a project lead of Chris Roberts' caliber, and far fewer resources. Consider what Crowd Control Productions managed to achieve with EVE starting off with a skeleton crew and a shoestring budget. Consider what just a single man with hardly money accomplished with the Evochron series, which features sandbox single-player and user-hosted multiplayer (it's decent, but not spectacular).

Star Citizen is not going to be a theme park MMORPG stuffed full of dialogue, scripted quests, complicated scenery, animals, innumerable character models, buildings, magic spells, etc. Using deep space as the overall setting and focusing on fewer than twenty ships at launch lightens the workload considerably. He had the fucking ships fundamentally working last October, for fuck's sake, and demonstrated such. Yes, there will be advanced features such as factories, boarding, multi-crew ships, and so on, but I believe they're doable.

I absolutely believe there'll be time to implement the persistent universe properly while also design the branching, 50-mission, single-player campaign with cinematics a la Wing Commander, yes. The user-hosted mod-able multiplayer will be an offshoot of the persistent universe. It'll take work to implement properly, but a tiny pittance compared to the rest of the project.

From everything I have read, it seems that the single-player will be a version of the multiplayer game without the additional players. You're welcome to tell me otherwise though.

I'd like to know what that "everything I've read" you're referring to entails before I explain this in detail.

 

[Grunker]

Consider what Egosoft managed to accomplish with the X series, having a much smaller team, less talent, nowhere close to a project lead of Chris Roberts' caliber, and far fewer resources. Consider what Crowd Control Productions managed to achieve with EVE starting off with a skeleton crew and a shoestring budget. Consider what just a single man with hardly money accomplished with the Evochron series, which features sandbox single-player and user-hosted multiplayer (it's decent, but not spectacular).

Star Citizen is not going to be a theme park MMORPG stuffed full of dialogue, scripted quests, complicated scenery, animals, innumerable character models, buildings, magic spells, etc. Using deep space as the overall setting and focusing on fewer than twenty ships at launch lightens the workload considerably. He had the fucking ships fundamentally working last October, for fuck's sake, and demonstrated such. Yes, there will be advanced features such as factories, boarding, multi-crew ships, and so on, but I believe they're doable.

I absolutely believe there'll be time to implement the persistent universe properly while also design the branching, 50-mission, single-player campaign with cinematics a la Wing Commander, yes. The user-hosted mod-able multiplayer will be an offshoot of the persistent universe. It'll take work to implement properly, but a tiny pittance compared to the rest of the project.

All this sounds very convincing until one notices that you failed to answer the central question: Why is it then that nobody has done this before? Appealing to a WIDE, BROAD audience is THE key marketing goal of today's games - ironically it's why no one has appealed to us in such a long time. But despite everyone's effort to capitalize on the SP and MP crowd both, with BioWare's latest attempt being SW:ToR, suddenly Chris comes and succeeds? Well, he certainly succeeded in promising to do it, but I think the points you make above pertain to wistful thinking when you take into accound that what Chris is doing has never, ever been done before to a satisfying degree.

If he succeeds in being the first, I salute the man for his vision and you for your trust in him. But I maintain that the chances are low.

I'd like to know what that "everything I've read" you're referring to entails before I explain this in detail.

The website.

 

[Blaine]

Why is it then that nobody has done this before?

Because there's never been a project like this one before. The fact that Squadron 42 and Star Citizen are "twitch" space combat games (and the latter a deep-space sandbox) rather than hotkey World of Warcraft clones really is a key distinction. Chris Roberts' expert involvement is another. The level of detail that today's technology allows (not only in visuals, but in articulation of individual starship parts and other simulationist concerns) is yet another distinction. A non-linear space dogfighting game with a branching mission structure hasn't been done at all in over a decade. Even the advent of crowdfunding is a factor, and while the team is smaller than Gearbox and their resources "only" $20m or so (there are private investors), it's far more than many others have had.

If he succeeds in being the first, I salute the man for his vision and you for your trust in him. But I maintain that the chances are low.

I have my doubts, too. I don't know for sure that it'll be amazing, or that all promised features will be implemented at or near launch, or that I'll like the way the ships control and handle, or that the instancing/slider system will turn out to be a good idea, or that the credits shop might not have an undue effect on the game. However, unlike you, I believe that the chances are very good.

The comparison of me to Roguey is a terrible one. The Codex is a computer RPG forum, and the entire Codex is already fapping over Project Eternity, yet even the slightest criticism is met with Tweet and forum quote spam on Roguey's end. I on the other hand am facing people absolutely raging about how shit this game will definitely be, and yet I still admit (and not just for show) that there are valid concerns to be had. I am however forced into what appears to be a defensive position simply by repeating the same unbiased information about Star Citizen's features ad nauseum.

 

[villain of the story]

So when exactly did this shit go from being a spiritual successor to WC series to an MMO milking cow? Glad I stayed away.

I can't blame ole Chris for wanting a pie of the business but promising those old games to promote an MMO is fucking dishonest so fuck him and his game.

Squadron 42 will be

What happened to "Star Citizen"?

 

[Grunker]

Because there's never been a project like this one before. The fact that Squadron 42 and Star Citizen are "twitch" space combat games (and the latter a deep-space sandbox) rather than hotkey World of Warcraft clones really is a key distinction.

You are flat-out telling me that Robert's is such a divine genious that he figued out what the entire industry has been trying to solve for over a decade? Call AAA guys what you will, but they know how to sell to a broad audience. If they knew of an economic way to produce a single-player campaign that tied into a multiplayer-game, they'd be all over that shit.

Hell, and example: Neverwinter, the new f2p mmo, is almost entirely twitch-based. It doesn't have an SP-campaign. Why? Resources. Even with a budget probably around double Star Citizen's, they barely had the cash to make a bare-bones MMO with four character classes.

I have my doubts, too. I don't know for sure that it'll be amazing, or that all promised features will be implemented at or near launch, or that I'll like the way the ships control and handle, or that the instancing/slider system will turn out to be a good idea, or that the credits shop might not have an undue effect on the game. However, unlike you, I believe that the chances are very good.

The comparison of me to Roguey is a terrible one. The Codex is a computer RPG forum, and the entire Codex is already fapping over Project Eternity, yet even the slightest criticism is met with Tweet and forum quote spam on Roguey's end. I on the other hand am facing people absolutely raging about how shit this game will definitely be, and yet I still admit (and not just for show) that there are valid concerns to be had. I am however forced into what appears to be a defensive position simply by repeating the same unbiased information about Star Citizen's features ad nauseum.

Untrue. This is the first post I recall on this subject where you even emit just a hint of doubt towards Roberts and this project.

Bah, we'll see when the time comes.

 

[Drakron]

Because there's never been a project like this one before.

Freelancer called.

And no, it had multiplayer ... what doomed Freelancer was the strange controls and the fact people moved away from flight sims.

There are many reasons to be suspicious due to apparently be everything, I hope when things get closer at launch some things get dropped as it gets more focused on what it wants to be but until then everyone have every reason to be cautious, I hope for a Wing Commander: Privateer game that is why I keep a eye on it.

Also this will be a niche game, question is WHAT niche game ... will it be for EVEtards as its EVE with a joystick or for people like me that want a more modern Wing Commander: Privateer since its what it will be in the end?

 

[Data4]

Doesn't Chris Roberts already have investors who were willing to contribute a big chunk of cash separate from the crowdfunding? I seem to remember something about the crowdfunding part being as much of a proof to the investors that this is something people desire as it is an alternate source of funding.

 

[Blaine]

Untrue. This is the first post I recall on this subject where you even emit just a hint of doubt towards Roberts and this project.

Most of my doubts have centered on the credits shop and the question of how efficiently players will be able to earn credits in-game, buried back around pages 10-13 in the General Gaming thread. I've posted about it on the Codex, on the RSI forums, and on several other fan forums, and my attitude remains that although Chris Roberts insists the game won't be grindy or P2W, we'll just have to wait and see. You doubters ought to post your Concerns™ (as they've been labeled) on the RSI forums, then I assure you you'll find out what a fanboy really is. I'm extremely reasonable compared to most.

I have other doubts as I stated, but I don't tend to "emit" them on the Codex, no. That's mainly because my doubts are normal and tame compared to the extremely bitter, sky-is-falling Tourette's versions expressed by half the people who post in these threads.

This is me recently in the RSI private subscriber's forum (being tactful, yes, lest I be dogpiled by rabid fanboys):

Spoiler

Doesn't Chris Roberts already have investors who were willing to contribute a big chunk of cash separate from the crowdfunding? I seem to remember something about the crowdfunding part being as much of a proof to the investors that this is something people desire as it is an alternate source of funding.

Yeah, and that chunk is assumed to be around $6-$10m at this point, but no one knows for certain.

 

[Drakron]

Most of my doubts have centered on the credits shop and the question of how efficiently players will be able to earn credits in-game, buried back around pages 10-13 in the General Gaming thread.

Depends on itemization or skill, in Privateer your upgrades were pretty much mandatory in sense it now did something, like the scanner when you started with a monochrome radar that meant you could not even do patrols because it lacked IFF.

Having a top of the line meant nothing because equipment was so some upgrades were required just to move on, granted it was a single player game but unless you did something stupid and go to Kilrathi space you would be fine (or try to go the sectors on the left instead of the right) since enemies never really changed, you still had pirates flying the Talon and ConFed flying Stiletto were the real danger was running into a Paradigm when carrying contraband and they scanned you since those were the only of the 2 capital ships.

If itemization offsets skill then its a problem, otherwise its not.

 

[Grunker]

Untrue. This is the first post I recall on this subject where you even emit just a hint of doubt towards Roberts and this project.

Most of my doubts have centered on the credits shop and the question of how efficiently players will be able to earn credits in-game, buried back around pages 10-13 in the General Gaming thread. I've posted about it on the Codex, on the RSI forums, and on several other fan forums, and my attitude remains that although Chris Roberts insists the game won't be grindy or P2W, we'll just have to wait and see. You doubters ought to post your Concerns™ (as they've been labeled) on the RSI forums, then I assure you you'll find out what a fanboy really is. I'm extremely reasonable compared to most.

I have other doubts as I stated, but I don't tend to "emit" them on the Codex, no. That's mainly because my doubts are normal and tame compared to the extremely bitter, sky-is-falling Tourette's versions expressed by half the people who post in these threads.

This is me recently in the RSI private subscriber's forum (being tactful, yes, lest I be dogpiled by rabid fanboys):

Spoiler

View attachment 1661View attachment 1663

Sorry for the late reply, vacation.

I like the Blaine I see in that screenshot. He should post here as well

 

[Blaine]

Sorry for the late reply, vacation.

I had family over this weekend, didn't notice.

I like the Blaine I see in that screenshot. He should post here as well

I can argue either side, but both forums are extremist. Which side should I argue when people are being intensely negative? I'm certainly not going to join in. In my view there's a lot to be excited about, there are some concerns, and there's still plenty we aren't sure of.

 

[bertram_tung]

been following this from the beginning, finally pledged 40 bucks about a month ago

 

[Elthosian]

I pledged at the Freelancer level some time ago, mostly for the physical goodies and the branching campaign, but you can count me in if I get a decent internet provider by the time the game comes out, reading the updates and the general gaming thread has gotten me pretty interested and this could be the first MMO that I get to play in a constant manner.

 

[Szioul]

I pledged when they were running it on Kickstarter.

 

[Blaine]

All right, we've got 35 interested parties so far, sorted into categories. Note: There is no great pressure on any Codexian to pledge until the end of November 2013 (provided you have a valid credit card), because I'm an original backer. You can pay me at-cost to gift you pledge packages at the original low prices and with Lifetime Insurance on the included ship(s). This will probably annoy me as I'm unsure how to transfer PayPal funds into my bank account and detest PayPal in general, but whatever. I'll require payment up front for this service.

ESPIONAGE CORPS: My spymaster ambitions are as strong as ever, and naturally one person cannot realistically infiltrate a dozen large in-game organizations (guilds/squadrons/clans/whatever) by himself. That would suck all of the fun out of the actual game and become a second and third job. The Goons (Something Awful) will be the most difficult and annoying community to fit into, since their forum regulars are insufferable, popamole-loving mangina hambeasts. I'll probably handle them myself. Most other large, noteworthy organizations (including Redd Squadron [Reddit] and The Vederation [4chan]) have absolutely no recruiting standards whatsoever and will be easy to infiltrate. I'm very familiar with the "culture" of each of those sites, but again, I'll probably be handling the Goons.

For clarity's sake, infiltration is a purely metagame activity and has nothing to do with game mechanics. It involves participating in their forums, their voice chat, integrating yourself into their culture, playing the game with them off and on, and generally ingratiating yourself as much as possible while gathering useful intel such as fleet movements, leadership structure, base locations, potential turncoats or moles to be recruited to the spy's own network, et cetera and so on, even acts of sabotage and betrayal if the game mechanics/rules allow for them. Obviously, maintaining an awareness of operational security and trying not to get caught are also important factors.

ERGO, if anyone wishes to volunteer to infiltrate an organization (either a specific one or to be determined), send me a PM and I'll sit on it. This will be my last public posting on the matter, at least anywhere on the Internet that I don't consider "secure."

"Why do that?" you may ask. "It's gay," you might say. The answer is simply because it's fun and can be challenging.

Pledged/plan to pledge:
Tzaero
Matt7895
Zarniwoop
Blaine
mindx2
Disgruntled
stony3k
mikaelis
bertram_tung
Szioul

Interested if the game is good:
IDtenT
deuxhero
fizzelopeguss
Trash
J_C
anus_pounder
Grunker
Multi-headed Cow
Metro
raw
TripJack
Tycn
Jarpie
Yaar Podshipnik
skuphundaku
Data4

Interested but unsure if PC/Internet will handle it/if I'll be able to play/etc.:
LeStryfe79
SmartCheetah
praetor
Krraloth
Elthosian

Maybe (agnostics):
Turisas
Haba
Zed
Drakron

 

[Metro]

I'll infiltrate the one with all the hot women aged 24-30.

 

[Jarpie]

All right, we've got 35 interested parties so far, sorted into categories. Note: There is no great pressure on any Codexian to pledge until the end of November 2013 (provided you have a valid credit card), because I'm an original backer. You can pay me at-cost to gift you pledge packages at the original low prices and with Lifetime Insurance on the included ship(s). This will probably annoy me as I'm unsure how to transfer PayPal funds into my bank account and detest PayPal in general, but whatever. I'll require payment up front for this service.

ESPIONAGE CORPS: My spymaster ambitions are as strong as ever, and naturally one person cannot realistically infiltrate a dozen large in-game organizations (guilds/squadrons/clans/whatever) by himself. That would suck all of the fun out of the actual game and become a second and third job. The Goons (Something Awful) will be the most difficult and annoying community to fit into, since their forum regulars are insufferable, popamole-loving mangina hambeasts. I'll probably handle them myself. Most other large, noteworthy organizations (including Redd Squadron [Reddit] and The Vederation [4chan]) have absolutely no recruiting standards whatsoever and will be easy to infiltrate. I'm very familiar with the "culture" of each of those sites, but again, I'll probably be handling the Goons.

For clarity's sake, infiltration is a purely metagame activity and has nothing to do with game mechanics. It involves participating in their forums, their voice chat, integrating yourself into their culture, playing the game with them off and on, and generally ingratiating yourself as much as possible while gathering useful intel such as fleet movements, leadership structure, base locations, potential turncoats or moles to be recruited to the spy's own network, et cetera and so on, even acts of sabotage and betrayal if the game mechanics/rules allow for them. Obviously, maintaining an awareness of operational security and trying not to get caught are also important factors.

ERGO, if anyone wishes to volunteer to infiltrate an organization (either a specific one or to be determined), send me a PM and I'll sit on it. This will be my last public posting on the matter, at least anywhere on the Internet that I don't consider "secure."

"Why do that?" you may ask. "It's gay," you might say. The answer is simply because it's fun and can be challenging.

Pledged/plan to pledge:
Tzaero
Matt7895
Zarniwoop
Blaine
mindx2
Disgruntled
stony3k
mikaelis
bertram_tung
Szioul

Interested if the game is good:
IDtenT
deuxhero
fizzelopeguss
Trash
J_C
anus_pounder
Grunker
Multi-headed Cow
Metro
raw
TripJack
Tycn
Jarpie
Yaar Podshipnik
skuphundaku
Data4

Interested but unsure if PC/Internet will handle it/if I'll be able to play/etc.:
LeStryfe79
SmartCheetah
praetor
Krraloth
Elthosian

Maybe (agnostics):
Turisas
Haba
Zed
Drakron

You can move me to the pledged.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

It's a cool idea, but I'd be an awful spy. Like I mentioned earlier my play time would be pretty erratic, and what I didn't mention was that I don't really use voice chat or anything. On top of all that, out of the listed guilds/corps/groups the only one I have a working knowledge of would be 4chan, and since they're so incompetent at games in general I doubt they'd really be worth infiltrating, though of course you don't know until you do. Don't have a SA account and the few brief moments I've looked at their forums I recoiled in horror, and the same goes for Reddit.

 

[Norfleet]

I could be convinced to take a spin on this if my schedule is free if and when this thing stops being vaporware. But I don't pay for things. I would be interested if I can avoid any and all fun associated with this thing, because I hate fun.

 

[Data4]

You can move me to the pledged.

Ditto.

 

[mindx2]

I have no interest in this spy junk. I am mainly interested in the single-player portion and an willing to try the multi-player stuff as I'm very unfamiliar with MMO games... as in I don't play them at all. I'm only willing to give it a go since many here (who also seem to dislike MMOs as much as I do) are willing to try it as well.

 

[Trash]

You can move me to the pledged.

Same here.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I've pledged already, have a Freelancer and 315p. Will probably buy a constellation before the grace period finishes too.