Company News Obsidian working on a Pathfinder game - could be an Eternity CRPG + card game

[Crooked Bee]

I too wish they licensed Ars Magica instead, especially given how enthusiastic Sawyer is about it, but I guess Pathfinder is just a safe bet all around.

 

[J_C]

Gotta love how after all that Sawyer's shitting on 3.5 Obsidian is going to work on an RPG based on 3.5's carbon copy. Would be even funnier if people will like it more than PoE's system.

But seriosly, fuck Pathfinder, couldn't they pick an actually good system for their new game?

I'm not a p'n'p roleplayer, but isn't pathfinder a good system?

 

[Stompa]

I'm not a p'n'p roleplayer, but isn't pathfinder a good system?

Not really. It's still has the same problems as D&D 3.5, the biggest of which is disparity between casters and non-casters. Only Pathfinder managed to make some of them worse. Changes in skills assfucked rogues, changes in feats gimped fighters, monks aren't even worth mentioning. Then they nerfed martials directly through errata several times. Idiotic attitude of lead developer didn't help at all. Probably the best example of this was Ultimate Combat, sourcebook dedicated to fighting things, which had a big portion of it dedicated to new spells and archetypes for caster classes.

 

[Alchemist]

I think Pathfinder is a fine system. I played through 2 long adventure path campaigns (just finished Jade Regent last Friday) and it works well enough and we had a great time. Balance is a little off, yeah - such is the case with most versions of D&D. You learn to work around it, for example not playing a rogue if you're concerned with optimization.

It would make a great computer game if implemented right (turn-based or GTFO). My only issue with Pathfinder is the length of combats and absurd amount of modifiers to keep track of, especially at high levels. One of our players had to work out a spreadsheet to reference during combats. This wouldn't be in a issue in a computer game though.

 

[Vulcris]

I too wish they licensed Ars Magica instead, especially given how enthusiastic Sawyer is about it, but I guess Pathfinder is just a safe bet all around.

How I would love that .

Ars Magica seems to have everithing Sawyer likes setting like (an historical setting with low fantasy). Of course there is poor balance between characters type since mages are the focus of the game, hence the name of the game, but a single sword hit can still kill a mage easily. Plus it have Covenants as a meta character, and judging as how much having a stronghold for their characters seems important for a lot of IE players, it could be a very popular addition. The main problem I see is that the magic system is way more complex that any other magic system ever implanted in a video game.

And it doesn't have all the bullshit D&D have like hp and levels that makes low level ennemies trivial after a few level gained. One of the most interresting encouters my players had in an Ars Magica game was against some petty skeletons wich surrounded a house in which the players were barricaded. They discussed more than an hour irl before deciding to go out and confront them, because even if an encounter seems trivial in this game, there are risks to lose a man each time you fight. That gives the DM way more freedom to create some interresting encounters and stories than systems like pathfinder.

 

[Grunker]

Gotta love how after all that Sawyer's shitting on 3.5 Obsidian is going to work on an RPG based on 3.5's carbon copy. Would be even funnier if people will like it more than PoE's system.

But seriosly, fuck Pathfinder, couldn't they pick an actually good system for their new game?

I'm not a p'n'p roleplayer, but isn't pathfinder a good system?

Stumpa is an Excidium, i.e. sure 3.5 has problems but so does every system in existence. KotC was fucking fantastic, and Pathfinder is an update of that system in every way.

So yeah, if you want to join the "I hate D&D"-crowd then you can say Pathfinder is shit or whatever, but if you like D&D, there's nothing better than Pathfinder.

Also, @Stumpa, this is straight up untrue:

the biggest of which is disparity between casters and non-casters. Only Pathfinder managed to make some of them worse.

Not only because the spread between caster and non-caster is much smaller in Pathfinder (courtesy of Polymorph, Divine Power and so on being fixed and the worst prestige classes not existing anymore), but also because "much worse" is an insane sentiment. I mean, I get the people who are disappointed that Pathfinder held onto the "non-casters good early, casters good late philosophy" to some extend, but the claim that Pathfinder somehow expanded that gap is downright bullshit. I guess if you count Book of Nine Swords you have an argument, but then you can just implement that book in your game if you like sword magic. Stumpa is also right about some feats, about the rogue etc. but then Druid also got kicked in the nuts so it's not true to say that it's a caster vs. non-caster thing. Vital Strike etc. was a bad nerf, but I expect any decent video game developer will make certain changes (you know, like every other video game developer has) to nix those things if they cause problems during actual play.

I have completed three adventure paths fully, and during actual, practical play, it typically goes like: 1-8, martial classes outshine casters, 9-10, somewhat equal, 11+, casters take over. Though, in all adventure paths, casters have been drained of almost all resources at different points, so not even that is completely true.

If all Stumpa has played is PF Society, then it is different, 'cause those (pretty bad overall) scenarios typically consist of a ton of fighting, no resource-draining of casters and overall advantages to caster classes.

Point is, during practical play, Pathfinder is a clear improvement over 3.5. Moreso since if you feel like you're lacking something from 3.5 you can just implement that into your PF campaign with almost no changes.

Anyway, Pathfinder is far from perfect and has big problems - but name me a complex P&P system that doesn't and I'll call you a fucking liar. Even GURPS is riddled with flaws (HERESY GRUNKER).

 

[Grunker]

I too wish they licensed Ars Magica instead

It sucked that that Kickstarter failed.

 

[J_C]

I like DnD, so probably I'd like this.

 

[AbounI]

There will be a press release tomorrow.
Lisa Stevens, Paizo CEO:

All will be revealed this weekend. Well, maybe not all.

Press release tomorrow. More details throughout the weekend. We are talking about more than one type of game. I think you guys will be happy.

Btw, they are NOT taking over Pathfinder Online. Let's squash that right now.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rd8x?Pathfinder-Computer-Game-to-be-revealed-at#45

But the more interesting quote is this one:

Another possibility is they could be making the pathfinder adventure card game into a computer game, similar to Magic The Gathering, and Warcraft's Hearthstone.

That said, i'd prefer a CRPG. by far.

You know what I say in life, why do you have to choose? Why not have both?

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rd8x&page=2?Pathfinder-Computer-Game-to-be-revealed-at#65

So, there are still chances for a cRPG

edit : sorry, missed it was reported on page 4

 

[Crooked Bee]

I too wish they licensed Ars Magica instead

It sucked that that Kickstarter failed.

Yeah, that was probably the most disappointing KS failure for me.

 

[Roguey]

About as bad as a f2p tnk mmo imo.

 

[Rake]

About as bad as a f2p tnk mmo imo.

God, if people end up prefering this game's system than PoE's i would laugh for hours

 

[handup]

So yeah, if you want to join the "I hate D&D"-crowd then you can say Pathfinder is shit or whatever, but if you like D&D, there's nothing better than Pathfinder.

Grunker, have you played Castles and Crusades, Fantasy Craft or even Legend? I like Pathfinder, but there are undoubtedly way better alternatives to it.

the biggest of which is disparity between casters and non-casters. Only Pathfinder managed to make some of them worse.

Not only because the spread between caster and non-caster is much smaller in Pathfinder (courtesy of Polymorph, Divine Power and so on being fixed and the worst prestige classes not existing anymore), but also because "much worse" is an insane sentiment. I mean, I get the people who are disappointed that Pathfinder held onto the "non-casters good early, casters good late philosophy" to some extend, but the claim that Pathfinder somehow expanded that gap is downright bullshit. I guess if you count Book of Nine Swords you have an argument, but then you can just implement that book in your game if you like sword magic. Stumpa is also right about some feats, about the rogue etc. but then Druid also got kicked in the nuts so it's not true to say that it's a caster vs. non-caster thing. Vital Strike etc. was a bad nerf, but I expect any decent video game developer will make certain changes (you know, like every other video game developer has) to nix those things if they cause problems during actual play.

I have not played any of the adventure paths so I'm only going to speak from my own experience as a DM and player.

On the battlefield it is generally accepted that Pathfinder did somewhat even the playfield, mostly by taking away the spells that could effectively replace the other player's abilities such as Divine Power. I find that debatable, however, since Grease (a single spell that does a Tripping Fighter's job better than he does), Color Spray, Sleep, Silent Image can still affect the fate of the battle more than a d12+3 Greataxe. Out of combat things are way worse than in 3.5. Casters can still Knock locked chests, turn invisible instead of sneaking, fly instead of climbing, use summoned creatures' strength to lift portcullises, walk on water instead of swimming, use the Jump spell instead of jumping, cast the Lust spell instead of seducing, cast Friends instead of befriending etc.

Only now, Specialization doesn't prohibit spells of opposed school, they just take two spell slots instead of one (unless they take that feat that negates that), crafting now no longer costs xp, +2 to Int and Wis is way easier to get so now pretty much every wizard starts with 20 Int. Also, Sorcerers get to choose bloodlines which give them increased versatility (cause that's what sorcerers were lacking in, versatility) and Druids get Domains. And don't even get me started on the fucking skill system. Before, perception required you to put points in three different skills, not all of which may have been class skills, now it's just one skill and the fucking cleric is going to have it at highest because it's keyed off Wisdom and the skill list is so small and everyone gets so many skill points that they'll all pick perception as a skill. You know they have no idea what they are doing with the skill list when they give the witch and the sorcerer Use Magic Device as a class skill.

Now, if I had to choose between Pathfinder and 3.5 I'd still choose Pathfinder, but only because of the improvements to combat maneuvers.

 

[m_s0]

Hmmm. Sawyer may be a 4e fag, but what is Tim Cain?

He's Special:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjd4i1o4UY&t=3m31s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjd4i1o4UY&t=6m56s

 

[ikarinokami]

Keeping Tim Cain as lead programer on POE at this point is a huge waste of talent.

Tim Cain has never been Lead Programmer on POE. He's a programmer and a system designer on it.

Adam Brennecke is the Lead Programmer apart from producing.

I stand corrected, however my point still stands, his talents are being wasted at the moment.

 

[ikarinokami]

in actual game play casters and melee are very balanced, though "theory crafters" disagree.

 

[Grunker]

So yeah, if you want to join the "I hate D&D"-crowd then you can say Pathfinder is shit or whatever, but if you like D&D, there's nothing better than Pathfinder.

Grunker, have you played Castles and Crusades, Fantasy Craft or even Legend? I like Pathfinder, but there are undoubtedly way better alternatives to it.

I do not think any of them are better alternatives. In fact, I don't even think they're alternatives. I like Castles & Crusades actually, Fantasy Craft I'm pretty meh on, but neither of them have the complexity, mix & match and customization that Pathfinder has, especially when you consider that we use 3.5 as well and just port it to Pathfinder (which takes like half an hour for a prestige class for instance so it's pretty fucking easy).

Also, this is without going into the fact that the adventure paths are some of the best ease-of-play things ever crafted for P&P, and since you only do adventure paths when you need something easy that isn't too taxing on the GM to run, going "you could just convert that" is a very poor argument.

So no, I don't think any of those systems reach even half-way to Pathfinder's awesomeness and your "undoubtedly" is solely on you. Pathfinder is the best system for half-n-half roleplaying adventure and tactical combat with focus on character development. Since that is what we like to play when we don't play super-duper serious games, Pathfinder is perfect for us. Other stuff we run of those types of games are Shadowrun in GURPS, for example.

On the battlefield it is generally accepted that Pathfinder did somewhat even the playfield, mostly by taking away the spells that could effectively replace the other player's abilities such as Divine Power. I find that debatable, however, since Grease (a single spell that does a Tripping Fighter's job better than he does), Color Spray, Sleep, Silent Image can still affect the fate of the battle more than a d12+3 Greataxe

Yeah, one battle. When my crew escaped from Ravenscar (see the LP in my sig), they won through one important fight by virtue of a well-timed Colour Spray. After that, the wizard's Daze was very much less worthy than the barbarian's mauling of every opponent.

Only now, Specialization doesn't prohibit spells of opposed school,

Actually, they do. We're using the variant rules for Sin Magic.

Now, if I had to choose between Pathfinder and 3.5 I'd still choose Pathfinder, but only because of the improvements to combat maneuvers.

Chief reasons to use Pathfinder over 3.5:

1) Fixed spells.

2) All classes get cutomization and class features on every single level-up.

3) There are reasons to stay single-class and reasons to spread out, reasons to dip and reasons to avoid dipping.

4) There are customization options beyond even class configuration.

5) Variant rules are polished to a near mirrorshine.

6) The adventure paths are nothing short of fantastic.

7) You can pick and choose 3.5 stuff to implement as it suits you.

8) www.d20pfsrd.com is perhaps the greatest game resource database in existance.

9) There are plenty of add-on resources for your game, like we use the harrow-cards and the fumble and critical decks for instance.

Also, we of course use house-rules for each and every game we run. See the LP in my sig for our houserules if you're wondering how we play (those get updated continuously, obviously).

 

[Grunker]

in actual game play casters and melee are very balanced, though "theory crafters" disagree.

See, I like some theorycrafting, but the fact is that if your group only uses theorycrafted "builds", you have a shitty GM and an uninventive group. Also, even theorycrafted builds don't play out in practice like they do in theory, because almost all encounters and adventure paths throw plenty of wrenches into the ordinary rules. All in all, if your group is decent and you don't play Pathfinder Society, Pathfinder works much different in practice that what guides and cocksure forum users will tell you.

 

[ikarinokami]

in actual game play casters and melee are very balanced, though "theory crafters" disagree.

See, I like some theorycrafting, but the fact is that if your group only uses theorycrafted "builds", you have a shitty GM and an uninventive group. Also, even theorycrafted builds don't play out in practice like they do in theory, because almost all encounters and adventure paths throw plenty of wrenches into the ordinary rules. All in all, if your group is decent and you don't play Pathfinder Society, Pathfinder works much different in practice that what guides and cocksure forum users will tell you.

I concur with your opinion.
neither of my groups uses theory crafting. I think the classes are extremely balanced, unless you go out of your way to break them. none of the gamers I play with do this, but I suppose it would be more common in PFS play. I do find it amusing that the vast majority of nerfs that have occurred have been martial related. I think it speaks to the fact which a lot of theory crafters ignore, and that is in general martials have a greater effect on the game and they are more popular.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

From Obsidian facebook account:


OBSIDIAN ANNOUNCES PATHFINDER LICENSE

Obsidian to partner with Paizo Inc. to release electronic Pathfinder games

INDIANAPOLIS -- August 13, 2014 -- Obsidian Entertainment, the developer of Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: the Stick of Truth and the Kickstarter phenomenon Pillars of Eternity, announced that they have entered into a long-term licensing partnership with Paizo Inc. to produce electronic games based on its popular Pathfinder Roleplaying Game intellectual property

Obsidian's first licensed product will be a tablet game based on the highly successful Pathfinder Adventure Card game, a cooperative game for 1 to 4 players. Players each have a unique character composed of a deck of cards and a set of stats. Characters have classes such as fighter, rogue, wizard and cleric, as well as numbers that define attributes such as strength, wisdom and charisma etc. Players will be able to customize their deck to better suit each individual’s vision of their character.

"At Obsidian we have a long history of working with the greatest RPG franchises, and we're thrilled to get to play in the Pathfinder universe now," said CEO Feargus Urquhart. "We're huge fans and can't wait to bring what we do in the electronic gaming world to Pathfinder fans everywhere".

In the world of Pathfinder, players take on the role of brave adventurers fighting to survive in a world beset by magic and evil. The Pathfinder RPG is currently translated into multiple languages, with hundreds of thousands of players worldwide. The Pathfinder brand has also been licensed for comic book series, graphic novels, miniatures, plush toys, apparel, and is being developed into a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game.

"Obsidian is a video game developer at the top of its game", said Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens. "Being able to bring that type of experience and passion to Pathfinder can only mean great things, both for our loyal Pathfinder community and for all fans of great CRPG's."

Obsidian will be at Gen Con 2014 showing off an early prototype of the digital Pathfinder Adventure Card Game in the Paizo booth (#203) and in their own booth (#2151) featuring the first consumer hands on for Pillars of Eternity.

About Obsidian Entertainment
www.obsidian.net

About Paizo Inc.
www.paizo.com

Obsidian Entertainment Press Contact:
Shane DeFreest
Press@obsidian.net

Paizo Inc. Press Contact:
Jenny Bendel
Jenny.bendel@paizo.com

 

[felipepepe]

Obsidian, doing tablet card games and tank MMOs...



At least PoE looks amazing.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

 

[ikarinokami]

second kickstarter a pathfinder TB RPG?

 

[Abu Antar]

I guess as long as the money keeps flowing in...

 

[Decado]

A Pathfinder tablet card game. Huh.