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Obsidian General Discussion Thread

Joined
Dec 12, 2013
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After the PoE success Obsidian should be a PC-only developer :(
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There is a certain resemblance, but he has a more well-proportioned face than I.
 
Weasel
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10808699_1078227265527593_661235912_n.jpg

RqtrghF.jpg
 

Crooked Bee

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Interview with Zach Simon from the audio team at Obsidian Entertainment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/GameAudio/comments/32xxbd/interview_obsidian_entertainment_audio_team/

Hey Guys,
I'm working on my dissertation for 'audio and immersion in games', and I was very fortunate to have a personal q&a with Zach Simon from the audio team at Obsidian Entertainment who have just released Pillars of Eternity.

I just want to thank Zach again and everyone who helped contribute to the answers, it's helped me a lot, and I really appreciate the time you put into them, they're really insightful.

Did you use realistic sounding environments/sound effects, or did you create less realistic ones? If so, why?

This would really depend on the style of the game that you are working on. Pillars of Eternity is a fantasy RPG so we tried to make it sound that way; usually that meant they were pretty exaggerative. The key to making an ambiance sound good is to make it have as much depth as possible without having anything sound to present or too far in the foreground (this would muddy up your mix).

How did you approach surround sound, did you ignore it? Or do you put anything in there such as environment/ ambience/music or other?

We did the entire game with Unity's built in audio tools (which are quite awful in Unity 4) so we didn't do anything in regard to surround sound. You have to treat an isometric top down game kind of the same way you would a 2d game. You can't move the camera around in 3 dimensions and a sound can't really ever be behind the camera (maybe in special cases?). So there isn't much of a need for surround sound.

Is there anything you would like to hear added or removed from games of the style of Pillars of Eternity?

Pillars of Eternity has sounds in all of the right places in my opinion. If you check out any videos make sure to try and find ones that are NOT labeled as "Backer Beta" and try to find videos that just recently were uploaded so you can hear the latest build.

Using Unity, did you find any limitations with the current audio system. Did you decide to use any particular middle-ware, or create your own systems?

Unity 4 has very limited audio tools. Pillars of Eternity was crowdfunded using kickstarter so middleware wasn't really an option in the budget. Almost all of our implementation tools were custom made by the programmers here at Obsidian, even then it was hard to get programmer time and the tools are pretty bare. Although, having limited tools isn't a bad thing, it helped us design and implement in more creative and unique ways.

How do you manage your music transitions between zones/scenes/player states. Do you crossfade tracks, have adaptive systems in place, or something else entirely?

Justin Bell (audio director and composer) did all of the music implementation. I asked him and he said: Each scene has it’s own music assigned to it. If two scenes have the same music, we allow the music to continue playing (across the load screen too). If it’s different music, it will fade the music out after the load screen and play the new music shortly thereafter. Nothing is adaptive other than combat music. It’s a very simple system.

Where there any recording/mixing aspects of the game that you wish you had done differently?

Mixing the game was one of the last steps we took. The limited tools made it hard to easily change the mix. We were only able make a few iterations but overall I think it turned out sounding good. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I would change. Justin also wanted to add: Stock Unity 4 audio functionality makes mixing a large game like eternity hard, so if I could have I would have gotten Fabric or some other middleware to help out.

Did you seek feedback for your audio at any stage during development? Perhaps to the other developers, or play testers? If so, how did you use that feedback?

The team was always giving us feedback in the form of suggestion bugs. Sometimes our decisions were by design or we didn't have time to address it but usually we were pretty good about talking about it and coming to a common consensus. We also had a beta for some of the higher tier kickstarter backers so we were constantly checking the forums to see what they had to say about audio.

Are there any particular challenges in keeping the audio immersive in games such as pillars of eternity that would perhaps be easier to achieve in another genre?

Of course. It also depends on how good your tools are and how much time a programmer can spend helping you get the tools setup in the way that you need them. For instance on Pillars of Eternity we only have spherical emitters. For a first person RPG that has a camera that can rotate this makes perfect sense but, for a 2d game with a fixed camera this doesn't always work out very well. This is especially noticeable with very large things that emit sound that aren't circular, like a river. Ideally we would be able to draw a shape around the body of water and make it emit sound from whatever point is nearest to you. In Pillars we had to stagger 2/3 different water loops (to prevent phasing when two overlapped) along rivers. Not only did this in some cases cause slight phasing but each emitter is adding one voice to the already limited number of available voices. Another thing that might make fantasy titles more challenging vs. more realistic titles is that you have to creatively come up with sounds that make sense for the world and yet have no reference to our real world. Working on a title with little or no fantasy elements that's going for a more realistic approach may be easier because you can constantly reference sounds you hear in your daily life.

What is the hardest creative challenge of audio design ( be it sfx, foley or music) within the role playing game genre that you found? And specifically on the sound design for footsteps, how do you combat repetition in variation, do you have a certain amount of samples, or a system created to counter repetitiveness?

I can't speak for music because I'm in no way a composer nor do I do the implementation for music. But I think for me, on pillars of eternity, the most challenging sounds were the ones that you heard over and over again (specifically it was weapon impacts and footsteps). These kinds of sounds are the ones that we iterate the most on and are the hardest to nail down because they get the most exposure. The entire team hears them 9000 times and suddenly they start to notice the subtle flaws in them. It becomes apparent after about a week of hearing them in the build if they are going to work or not. For footsteps I made 20 variants for each type of material (dirt, wood, stone, water) and made sure that the rhythm of each step was almost identical so that there was only slight variation in each one. If one sample stands out too much over another then it becomes more and more obvious that the same sound is playing (BAD). It would have been more ideal if I could have had more variants considering that you can have up to 6 characters in your party walking at the same time but we needed to go the most optimal route and use as little memory as possible.

Tomoya Kishi, Capcom in an interview said - “For sound effects, I think Japanese games do a better job of really making you hear the sounds, while Western games focus more on experience, but, of course, this could be just a matter of personal taste.” Do you believe there is a cultural divide from developers in terms of how they create their audio, and how they deliver it to the audience?

Bryan Higa (Another sound designer here at Obsidian) recently went to GDC and actually watched a panel about this so I let him answer this one. I definitely think there's a difference in where Japanese and Western game place more importance and emphasis. At this past GDC, Tomohiro Yajima (Square-Enix) spoke about the differences between JRPGS and Western RPGS. JRPGs tend to place much more emphasis on the player character and the overall story arc of the game and everything about the game only enforces it; be it gameplay, audio, visuals, etc. For example, in a JRPG, players may wander into a town but not all the town doors will be openable because it serves no purpose to explore that building if it has nothing to do with the main character or plot. Also, he said that Japanese fans want to hear the player characters verbally shout what attacks/moves they are performing, much like classic anime. Even if they repeat vocal lines or sounds, they'd much rather be able to hear it and don't care about the repetitiveness. Audio-wise, sounds made by the main player take more emphasis than any other sound and usually are higher frequency in style that pop through the mix. Also according to Yajima-san, Western games, on the other hand, places more emphasis on the world that the player inhabits. The towns, the creatures, the world is completely explorable. Personally, I think Western games tend to be less repetitive and UI based and walks the fine line of being realistic and unobtrusive vs. giving the player critical feedback, while Japanese tend to favor being more heavy handed and harder emphasis on music, voice overs being more UI-like (giving the player critical feedback during gameplay), and higher frequency sounds. Is one better than the other? Not necessarily, there are good and bad examples of both. I actually think a mixture of the two styles is the best combination. Tl;dr There's a definite cultural difference and it's not just audio development, but the whole process of game development. Just different ways of achieving the same goals. So yeah. I concur.

What do you believe is the most important contribution to immersion in terms of audio design and implementation?

The first things that come to mind are weight and spatialization. Things need to have the right amount of low and high elements to properly convey how "heavy" something is. This along with a well tuned reverb setting in your level will increase immersion. Another thing is depth in your ambiance with multiple layers (background, mid-ground, and foreground). This can be achieved by using the right verb, ping pong delay, and a well tuned dry/wet mix. If you walk into a forest you aren't just going to hear birds in the trees right next to you. You will also hear distant, muffled creatures and birds coming from the left, right, and center.

Immersion is subjective by nature, but do you believe that any genres have an advantage in obtaining it?

I think each genre and camera style bring their own set of complications to creating immersive audio. I haven't had a huge variety of titles I've worked on so I can't say for certain if one genre is easier than another. I did mention something above about 2d games vs 3d but I think really that comes back down to having enough resources to get the best tools possible. There will always be limitation to any genre and it's your job as a sound designer to come up with creative ways to make it work.

It is common to understand that the audio budget generally suffers to that of it’s graphical counterpart, is that still the case in modern video games? And do you believe this budget limits the immersive capabilities that audio can achieve?

I don't think audio budgets are ever going to be able to match the visual budget. MOST developers and consumers just don't care as much about audio. People are much more forgiving of crappy audio than crappy graphics. The budget is definitely a limitation of what the audio can achieve but anything is possible with a strong creative audio team. You have to make do with your limitation.

If an audio aspect of a game was likely to draw you out of the immersion in a game, what is it most likely to be?

I think audio bugs and bad sound design would be the things most likely to pull out out of immersion. Things looping when they shouldn't be, things that are way too loud, things not playing at all, and lo-fi sounds. So assuming you have a decent audio team you have to worry mainly about bugs. In a game like Pillars of Eternity it is almost impossible to catch every instance of these things because of the size of the game vs. the size of the team. If we have a QA team of 7 guys that have been working 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 12 months (i'm not sure how this compares to what we actually had) that's about 14,000 hours of playtime to catch bugs. Now, on launch day we have lets say 150,000 people who buy the game and all play 1 hour. They just had 10 times the amount of playtime to find bugs.

Huge thanks again to Zach and the good folks over at Obsidian!
And to those who haven't, go check out Pillars of Eternity!
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Chris Avellone Q&A in Kotaku comments: http://kotaku.com/kotaku-asks-pillars-of-eternity-writer-chris-avellone-1699982395

Kotaku Asks: The Lead Writer And Designer Of Planescape: Torment [Q&A Over]

1223183110381175213.jpg


What can change the nature of a man? Just ask Chris Avellone, the writer behind some of the greatest role-playing games ever made, including Planescape: Torment, Fallout II, and Knights of the Old Republic II. He’s here today to take your questions.

Avellone, who was an instrumental part of the classic developer Black Isle Studios and co-founded the RPG powerhouse Obsidian Entertainment back in 2003, has written and contributed to way more games than should be possible for a human of 43. Most recently, he wrote two characters (Durance and Grieving Mother) for the stellar Kickstarted RPG Pillars of Eternity. He’s also currently working on Torment: Tides of Numenera, a spiritual successor toPlanescape.

Avellone will be here taking your questions for the next hour or two starting at 1pm ET. Ask whatever you’d like.

UPDATE (3:02pm): Q&A’s over! Thanks to Chris for taking the time to chat with us today.

Direct link to his responses here: http://kinja.com/chrisavellone/discussions
 

Roguey

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I love doing area design (making dungeons and layouts is a lot of fun for me, and reminds me of my old college architecture days)

I don't believe him. Or maybe he just didn't care about doing area design for Wasteland 2.

Final Fantasy III, VII, and Chronotrigger, all of which influenced my story design and companion design. I still cite all three to this day.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-a-western-chrono-trigger.46331/#post-1225715 Right again. :)
 

Gurkog

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Project: Eternity
I love doing area design (making dungeons and layouts is a lot of fun for me, and reminds me of my old college architecture days)

I don't believe him. Or maybe he just didn't care about doing area design for Wasteland 2.

Final Fantasy III, VII, and Chronotrigger, all of which influenced my story design and companion design. I still cite all three to this day.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-a-western-chrono-trigger.46331/#post-1225715 Right again. :)

I hope he meant the US FF3 which was Final Fantasy 6, because 6 had the best characters in any of FF games.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I love doing area design (making dungeons and layouts is a lot of fun for me, and reminds me of my old college architecture days)

I don't believe him. Or maybe he just didn't care about doing area design for Wasteland 2.

Final Fantasy III, VII, and Chronotrigger, all of which influenced my story design and companion design. I still cite all three to this day.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-a-western-chrono-trigger.46331/#post-1225715 Right again. :)

I hope he meant the US FF3 which was Final Fantasy 6, because 6 had the best characters in any of FF games.

Yes, MCA is oldschool provincial like that.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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:lol: That question about that obviously made-up image.

Chris Avellone said:
Personally, I enjoyed Fallout 3 and have said as much, and Bethesda not only did a great job, but they also did a great job of reintroducing players to the Fallout world.

:D
 

WhiteGuts

Arcane
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May 3, 2013
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Giving free blowjobs to Bethesda is the only way they're gonna give Obsidian another go at Fallout.

MCA's doing god's work :thumbsup:
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Sometimes I think MCA just says things to troll the Codex. Maybe he wants to know how far he can push it before he loses his divine status?
 

Jarpie

Arcane
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Codex 2012 MCA
Also it's usual common professional courtesy to be polite about other professionals work even if you dont like it.

Only quite a few people on the same field will be negative of other people's work.
 

Trodat

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Do we know NCarvers preference as a gamer? Is he a disciple of the Balance or will he turn to the dark side?
 

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