Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Nobody talks about Octopath Traveler or what

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
abnaxus

The 8 characters with the 1 million banner are shaped like the fairy from Bravely Default.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
abnaxus

The 8 characters with the 1 million banner are shaped like the fairy from Bravely Default.
Isn't that what we call in the business...

a simple coincidence? Where's the connection here.
Maybe, but it's made by the same business division at Square that made Bravely Default. Asano was the lead on Bravely games, and he is the lead of Octopath. It's probably nothing, as you said.
 

rbenchley

Educated
Patron
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
55
My mind has been blown.
DjqubdXUUAAk35D.png

tenor.gif

The Octopath team just tweeted out this image:
Dj5yQnOUUAA4WCL.jpg


Looks like we might be getting Bravely Default remasters or a third title.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
We need to talk about the sexist garbage in 'Octopath Traveler'
https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F825966%2Fc1651e9d-dd12-4d39-9152-646b21d48d50.jpg

Primrose is a grotesque cliche in "Octopath Traveler."
IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX
BY JESS JOHO20 HOURS AGO
This post includes spoilers for Octopath Traveler's story, but who cares? It sucks.

Octopath Traveler might be purposefully retro in its aesthetic and gameplay, but the game's most backward quality of all is by far the blatant misogyny.

The pixelated art style of this new beloved JRPG looks positively modern in comparison to how it unnecessarily sexualizes, infantilizes, patronizes, and exploits the abuse of nearly every one of its women characters.

SEE ALSO: 'Detroit: Become Human' dehumanizes everything it touches

The widespread success and popularity of Octopath Traveler took publisher Square Enix by total surprise, selling out so fast in Japan that the company publicly apologized twice. When it made its way to America on the Switch in July, it was to rave reviews that earned it a Metacritic score of 84.

Critics showered it with praise for its blend of nostalgia and innovation, while admitting that the stories of its eight different main characters were little more than juvenile cliches.

But few seemed concerned with which of those characters suffered most from its trope-y mess of a script, giving it a pass on the sexism it resurrects from a bygone era in games.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824430%2F930a9221-976c-4ff0-88aa-1931803d1e02.png



I wish I could believe this was a self aware criticism

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

There's a clear, gendered difference between how the male and female protagonists storylines play out. We've seen this in the genre before, though JRPGs often get a pass, perhaps because American writers use "cultural differences" as an excuse or simply don't bother taking these stories very seriously.

But I'm tired of excuses for why we should ignore this bullshit.

To its credit, Octopath Traveler does have an even gender split among its eight heroes. But the portrayal of the women is a noticeable regression from JRPGs with solid women protagonists (consider Final Fantasy VI's Terra and Celes, Trails in the Sky, or Valkyrie Profile).

It is perhaps the wasted potential of Octopath's female protagonists — whose stories somehow always manage to revolve around the men in their lives — that makes the game's casual misogyny feel like such a slap in the face.

Let's run through the very basic plot elements from Primrose's opening chapter.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824469%2Fb79f8050-71f0-40af-ba88-4881694ccec0.jpg



This is only one of two townsfolk who giggle at rape

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

Primrose's origin story begins with shades of Arya Stark — if Arya chose to become a sex worker instead of an assassin, and her entire personality revolved around a) being like rly hot, and b) whoring for Daddy.

After surviving her noble father's assassination, Lady Primrose went into hiding as a tavern's prized dancer. She and the other dancers are regularly beaten, starved, and raped by their "master." Yet Primrose is only motivated into leaving these abhorrently abusive conditions when one of the men who killed her father happens to walk in.

Inexplicably, the townsfolk make jokes about the dancers getting raped and lusting for the "private viewings" that their master forces them to do for him at night, if you know what I mean ;)))

All of these ordeals don't seem to hinder Primrose at all as she flirtatiously uses her "special skill" of seducing people into following her with a dance. In fact, the trauma of the place that taught her to dance appears completely divorced from all the fun she has using her sexuality as her main weapon and contribution to the team.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824516%2Fb0b1da08-3abd-412b-8c98-ab9bd215529e.jpg



The prevalence of creepy, paternal infantilization is astounding

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

This results is jarring scenes where, one minute, her master is beating her, calling her pet names like "kitten," telling her where she should put her mouth, threatening to rape and kill her unless she finds more patrons — only for Primrose to saunter outside and obey by performing an adorable, winky, coy dance animation for a man on the street.

I'm all for sexual empowerment, or reclaiming what was once traumatizing for yourself. But this isn't what that looks like.

This kind of careless mishandling of Primrose is a result of writers who want to use women's trauma to give a thin character some semblance of personality or depth. But her trauma is conveniently forgotten about for lighthearted moments when Primrose needs to be The Fun Sexy One.

At one point in Chapter 2 of her story, she gives a little "hehe" giggle while talking about the things that used to happen at the tavern. Noooope.

Youthful beauty and male masters seem to be prerequisites for the women heroes
Throughout Octopath, sex workers and sex slaves are routinely murdered and used as background props. A creepy undercurrent of daddy-daughter dynamics runs through most of them.

One scene encapsulates the weirdly fetishistic vibes embedded into Octopath's depictions of fathers and daughters: A father goes to a pimp with the sob story of how his daughter killed herself after being raped. But he's not grieving for her. He's grieving for himself, for the loss of having a little girl to dress up like his living, incestuous sex doll.

He's elated to be given a sex slave in direct replacement for his "sullied," dead daughter.

I mean, what the actual fuck, Octopath Traveler?

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824459%2F1fdde598-7790-49d4-98d6-b71a7df5a483.jpg



Someone needs to answer for the crime of subjecting me to this scene

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

This absurd scene goes completely unaddressed, as if it's not the most messed up shit you've ever seen in your goddamn life. But it tracks with the countless other inexplicable instances of infantilizing, sexually charged scenes between father figures and young girls.

And it's hard to even justify this portrayal of trauma as lazy world-building to convey Octopath's gritty, cruel vision of society. Because it's pretty much exclusive to Primrose's story, and it's entirely inconsistent with the comparatively rosy world experienced by every other character.

I can already hear the "well, actually!" excuse that all of this is the game trying to show how only bad, evil men objectify women, or reduce them to a madonna/whore dichotomy, or value them based on their purity, appearance, or relationships with men. I'd be more willing to suspend my disbelief if the game didn't do all those things to its other female characters.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824465%2F439a29b8-adcf-4238-ba28-ebd87fb8b395.jpg



I only wish this story treated your trauma as more than a plot horse, Arianna

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

Whether or not it knows it, Octopath Traveler perpetuates the same vile treatment of women as the villains it tries to condemn. The notion that women would rather die than live with the shame of rape or sex work is a sentiment put into the mouth of so-called "ruined" women. And nobody contradicts these characters. The game does little to disavow its audience of the belief that, on some level, it's true.

Octopath Traveler perpetuates the same vile treatment of women as the villains it tries to condemn
The physical beauty of three (out of four) of the women protagonists is referenced throughout. It's remarked on whenever Primrose is on screen; Tressa's captain savior focuses on it when they meet, even though she's a child; the religious Ophelia's own father figure feels the need to praise it in his daughters.

On the Daddy front: There are just a few too many instances of women's fathers serving as a replacement for their own character motivation. Ophelia and Lianna's story is so ludicrously centered around their paternal figure that Lianna betrays Ophelia on the off chance that some dude might bring him back from the dead.

Or, to summarize the sentiment passed between them in the screenshot below, women be crazy! And stupid!

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824508%2Fe4530bb7-b18d-4b40-ba67-1c1068c21a95.png



Lol same

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

Maybe this focus on their youth, appearances, and fathers wouldn’t feel so gross if it happened to literally any of the male characters. But it doesn't. Youthful beauty and male masters only seem to be prerequisites for the women heroes of Octopath Traveler.

Infantilization, frailty, and male superiors are traits so ubiquitous to the women of Octopath Traveler that it goes beyond just protagonists. Even Cyrus' story begins with two female students fighting each other over his attention. He's forced to leave the school to spare the princess involved any social destitution from the mere hint that she might be impure.

We don't hear anything about how that princess feels about all of it, since Octopath is in no way concerned with how women feel in general. But it’s emblematic of another funny characteristic all the women in this game share: Female friendships end with death, despair, or schisms born from their obsession with a man.

Coded into the gameplay itself
Then there's the gender divide embedded into the combat mechanics, specifically the job classes and special skills attributed to each character.

Though you will eventually unlock secondary classes, by default the men are: a warrior, apothecary, scholar, and a thief. The women are: a dancer (or as the game describes, a "whore"), cleric (the picture of pure, virginal feminine servitute), and a merchant.

The most empowering female character is by far the hunter. Though notably, even H'aanit falls into the trap of having her motivations tied exclusively to finding her missing "master" — a man clearly less competent than her, yet somehow still her superior.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824506%2F1fe838fc-0a8d-42df-b62a-918602d91db9.jpg



I see what you did there, Captain

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

Primrose and Ophelia are the only two characters whose predominant special skill is to call in someone more powerful than them for assistance in battle. Tressa also has a summoning ability tied to her job, and H'aanit's hunter skill lets her summon animals.

Again, I'd be willing to overlook this if any of the male characters' special skills were at all tied to summoning others for help. But their abilities are all markedly more self-sufficient and grounded in raw power, competence, and intelligence. The men get to challenge people to sword battles, glean useful information, steal valuable items, and concoct potions.

Don't get me wrong: these issues don't originate with and are not exclusive to Octopath Traveler. They're grounded in the mechanics and stories of many role-playing games of the past, as well as a deep-seeded misogyny buried in us all.

But that doesn't mean the shitty sidelining of women is inherent to the genre. We've heard the arguments justifying these reductive depictions of women in these kind of games already, and they mostly come down to historical accuracyor the excuse of archetypal characters.

As far as "historical accuracy" goes, it's odd that the fantasy genre — literally defined by its deviation from reality — necessitates treating women like garbage in order to make worlds with magic and dragons more believable. The archetypal defense might have more grounds, if it didn't seems to conflate "archetypes" with "tropes."

Archetypes are prototypical characteristics and traits that date back to the traditions of oral storytelling. A trope, on the other hand, is a cliche inherited by pop culture that writers fall back on instead of creating anything remotely nuanced or original.

To be fair, most of Octopath's characters and stories are unoriginal, with fewer dimensions than its pixelated art style. But the male cliches are infinitely more empowering and at least tied to their own individual interests, desires, and passions rather than perpetuated by a father figure.

By the end of Primrose's story, the game seems oddly self aware that it gave her absolutely zero character motivation or personality outside her father. (By the way, her mom's barely mentioned, as usual.) She climatically goes to her father's grave, and all but shrugs because now that Daddy's been avenged, she has no idea who she is or what she even wants.

https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F824510%2F53382683-8e5d-40e4-9a5a-22ba48606609.png



I was asking myself the same question, Primrose

IMAGE: SQUARE ENIX

But sure, for the sake of argument, let's say this bullshit is just how fantasy works, and compare Octopath Traveler to another modern fantasy story that dives into a multitude of different characters' perspectives.

The TV adaptation of Game of Thrones might also get criticized for using rape as a plot device while negating the trauma of women. But the books don't, instead bringing readers into the minds of archetypal women as they seek power and survival within an oppressive patriarchal society. And low and behold, it results in women treated as actual people rather than someone's concept of a woman.

Women don't have to be portrayed this way, in Octopath or any other game and fantasy setting. We just have to care enough to demand better, and then do better.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
H'aanit's the best Fighter. Tressa's the best all rounder, Primrose best offensive mage, Ophelia best defensive mage. Therion sucks. Cyrus is one dimensional, and has to waste a turn buffing himself to deal actual damage. Olberic can't hit shit late game unless he starts gulping nuts. Alfyn is best boy because fuck balancing item classes every time you make a game, amirite. Typical broad comparing the female characters to the male and showing all they can do is rely on paling in masculine qualities. Protagonists in the game have lost something or someone near and dear to them. So sexist!

The male characters have all lost their way. Olberic has lost his reason to live after seeing his king slain by his best friend. He spends the entire game searching for that raison d'etre. Cyrus spouts some bullshit about books and knowledge like a fuckin' poindexter. Therion steals...because. Seriously. He doesn't even have to do the shit his story sets him out to do, he does it...just because he has nothing to do. And then just walks through the fuckin' desert afterwards. Alfyn picks berries, drinks beer, and wants to fuck a sloot once. So empowering for men! Every single dude in Prim's story is a piece of shit, and portrayed as such.

SPOILER ALERT

H'aanit's story culminates in her killing Redeye, the transformed monstrosity of Graham Crossford, the original owner of Tressa's journal, the man who saved Alfyn and Ogen both. Olberic's entire kingdom was destroyed on a whim because it was in the way. Cyrus' boss gave away the secrets of a long forgotten book that detail how to resurrect a fallen God of Death. Ophelia's dumb cunt of a sister actually resurrects the dead God of Fucking Shit Up. Tressa made a BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS. Prim's biggest flaw is her story is only tangentially related to the main threads of the game through her relationship to the Obsidians and Simeon, while everyone else has direct skin in the game.

But of course she didn't make it that far, because she's too busy sucking at games, and crying her horse toothed face into a bag of oreos. I bet her ass looks like she plays video games while sitting on a gravel driveway for 9 hours.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Anyway...

I have completed all 3rd chapters and every optional dungeon that I have encounterd so far. I have 2-3 unfinished side quests. I’m still having fun at 55h.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,603
Codex 2012 MCA
Been playing this for about 30 hours and I'm really liking it so far, which is surprising as I usually can't stand jrpgs. The graphical style is nice and the score is excelment.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,603
Codex 2012 MCA
Should I get the secondary normal job/class, or should I wait for the special jobs?
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Get all jobs. No joking around. They all have good uses. In my opinion, there are no bad jobs.

Secret jobs are mostly for late game. Also, secret jobs require you to fight some really tough boss battles. You need secondary jobs to set up proper parties.

Olberic-Thief is great for duels. Warrior H’annit is great for damage, and so on.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Famitsu: There were also a lot of people asking for DLC or a sequel.

Asano: “Regarding paid DLC, we never planned to have it from the start, so as of now there are no planes on that end. There’s also nothing we can speak of in detail regarding a sequel, but I can say that we’re starting to talk about what we should do next.”



Famitsu: So, even if a sequel were to come out, it would be quite a long time ahead…?

Asano: “That’s the case. However, our team has become its own division with more staff, and from now this year onwards, I’d like to release a game each year that everyone will enjoy.”



Famitsu: So by that, do you mean something like another game in the Bravely series? The Octopath Traveler sales milestone illustration was quite curious..

Asano: “That was something that I asked Ikushima (Naoki Ikushima, character designer for Octopath Traveler at Square Enix) to draw. It doesn’t mean that there’s news we can announce regarding the Bravely series, but… There’s one thing I’d like to convey. For us, and for Square Enix, the Bravely series isn’t just a set of past titles to us.”

Takahashi: “We also recognized that a lot of players found out about Octopath Traveler because of the Bravely series.”

Asano: “However, because it takes around 3-4 years to make a game with the amount of content as a Bravely game or Octopath Traveler, we won’t be able to release a game every year just with those two.”



Famitsu: So another entirely new game is also possible?

Asano: “Please look forward to that. (Laughs) Anyways, starting with Octopath Traveler, I hope you look forward to the games coming from Business Division 11.”



Octopath Traveler is available for Nintendo Switch.


Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2018/09/0...-whats-next-for-the-team/#rJsiZSRrxvM5953Z.99
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
Octopath belongs on PC.

With few updates OT will be completely perfectly playable with PC. Right now games run at proper framerate but some 2D ui is broken.
Mind you that this game didn't even boot like a 1,5 weeks ago. Run at slideshow framerate just like 5 days ago and now with recent updates it is almost playable.

Nintendo don fuck up when they picked up Tegra which is really well documented and easy to reproduce with emulator.

 

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
Octopath belongs on PC.

With few updates OT will be completely perfectly playable with PC. Right now games run at proper framerate but some 2D ui is broken.
Mind you that this game didn't even boot like a 1,5 weeks ago. Run at slideshow framerate just like 5 days ago and now with recent updates it is almost playable.

Nintendo don fuck up when they picked up Tegra which is really well documented and easy to reproduce with emulator.



Is it playable though?
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
Is it playable though?

No it has broken 2D elements right now. But like i said 1,5 week ago game didn't even boot. 5 days ago game run at few fps per second and now it runs full speed but still has broken 2D UI. With 2-3 updates to yuzu* game should be completely playable from start to finish without any problem.

Assuming they will improve it in such pace.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
OK so I am playing this on ze switch, and I've only just vacuumed up all the characters, so not super duper far in

I'm ambivalent about it - there's a lot to like but the gameplay and story is quite shallow, sometimes making you wonder if there's anything of real substance here.

The gameplay loop is of course classic FF-ish; go to a town, do some superlinear story-based stuff, do some traveling / dungeoneering and do some superlinear random encounters, fight a boss, rinse and repeat, with a few simple side quests thrown in. Now, large aspects of that seem a lot more streamlined and pared down than, say, PS-era FFs. You find second jobs by finding out-of-way temples in the overworld, but those temples are just empty rooms that give you the job. Every map is built in an identical way, basically a long corridor with a few short offshoots for chests. Every town is basically the same too. I really like the visuals and atmosphere, otherwise it would get old very fast.

Given the lack of any meaningful exploration or whatever, the combat is the meat, and I like some of the mechanics they introduced like damage type weaknesses on each monster, attacking those weaknesses to 'break' and stun them, and even some secondary systems where a boss might be immune to weakness breaking until the minions are cleared. Alluring NPCs and then using them in battle, or spending $ to 'hire' (summon) mercs, is also nice. But difficulty seems weird - so far almost everything is a cakewalk, but when I go into areas above my level the sheer HP/Damage difference means it's hard to get by.

(Character development also seems very simplified, no real choices, but it seems like choosing and mixing second jobs is where a lot of that actually comes in, and I only just started on that.)

Story is also a mixed bag - I like the idea of 8 relatively simple characters with relatively simple stories that flesh out a fantasy world without loredumps or super complicated EPIC stories. And they refrain from going too emo - the thief guy is a lone wolf with flashbacks of his partner but doesn't do a fucking soliloquy about it, the retired knight has traumas but doesn't whine about it all day long. Some characters are annoying or boring, but that's OK in a cast of 8. The problem is that there comes a point where because you're advancing 8 stories at once, and each of them are fairly down to earth, the pacing slows down even more. You start to get scenes that you can skip after the first 3 seconds because you know almost exactly what they will say (e.g. Ophelia). There's not really any strong characters, humour, or mystery.

So yeah, I'm enjoying it, but so far I don't think it's a Great Game at all, just a standard JRPG with a bit of its own style. I do appreciate that it loses a lot of annoying bombastic things, from giant boob anime girls hollering fanservice lines every 5 seconds or supa-epic storylines with dark troubled long-haired emo villains, or pointless grinding (so far). And I do like the way they spiced up the old school graphics, some of the moments like the view of the sea in the merchant starting town is very nice.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
or pointless grinding (so far).
I am afraid i have very bad news for you. Characters out of the party dont gain any xp, you will have to grind for every single one...The grind is quite serious.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom