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Squeenix NieR: Automata from Yoko Taro and Platinum Games

Suicidal

Arcane
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
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Wow the final boss is pretty fucking triggering.

Can't see shit because of the dust storm
Barely visible melee attack animations that ate 80% of my health (I was overleveld AND had +50% hp chips)
You take damage from the random debris that flies off him when he attacks
Invisible walls in the arena
Forced platforming section that seemed impossible to me (good thing the platforms go away after some time, the developers weren't asshole enough to make it mandatory to get up to the boss and fight him there)
Forced ranged combat section with limited movement

Also if you die, might as well reload the game. Unlike every other boss in the game where you are given some time at the start to collect your corpse, this one starts throwing garbage at you the moment the fight starts and you will die during the corpse recovery animation. Even finding your corpse is almost impossible with that visibility.

This was the only boss in the game that was more irritating than fun to fight.

It also felt kinda anticlimactic, like I was fighting some insane garbage-throwing hobo in the middle of a junkyard. The battle against Adam in his minecraft castle felt much more satisfying and fun, that should have been the final boss, IMO.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
How's that even possible? By merely fighting you get a ton of chips. Talk to the gal near the transport\save point in the Resistance Camp to buy extra slots. To set up them merely go on the menus, it's easy.
What, I was supposed to notice or care when a reward notification blinked on the screen in a JRPG? That goes against 20+ years of training, but OK.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,221
Playing through 9S's story and I don't hate it as much as I thought I would. I had watched several streamers/youtubers play the game and when they were playing as 9S they were hacking literally every single mob and had to play the fucking minigame every time and I thought this is what the 2nd playthrough would look like and was hesitant to start it.

Turns out it's much simpler. I just equipped a spear and its charged throwing attack deals a lot of damage, pierces through multiple enemies, knocks them back and staggers them and has a hitbox so wide that it keeps hitting things that by all rights it should miss. I only use hacking when there are a lot of enemies that would take damage in the AoE explosion, when I get attacked by those gold robots with too much health and when the game explicitly asks me to and it doesn't annoy me that much.

I think it still sucks that you have to play through most of the same content twice but at least the occasional new story bits are nice and the game goes much faster thanks to the overpowered thrown spear and hacking.
 

AN4RCHID

Arcane
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
4,805
You can literally just run past 90% of the combat in this game if you start to get bored :M
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
No.

The fact you didn't notice is a credit to the game; it's tuned so that the enemies you encounter are pretty much always gonna be level-appropriate. But no, no level-scaling. Just careful tuning.
 

Saark

Arcane
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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Action-combat enemies do not scale.
Flight-combat enemies do scale.
 

AN4RCHID

Arcane
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Interesting, coulda sworn the robots were scaling. I skipped quite a lot of combat on B route and it never seemed to get notably harder.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
No.

The fact you didn't notice is a credit to the game; it's tuned so that the enemies you encounter are pretty much always gonna be level-appropriate. But no, no level-scaling. Just careful tuning.

Wasn't my experience. I did a lot of content on A and was seriously overlevelled trough most of route B. Good thing too, considering 9S' clumsy combat style.
It kinda evened out in the second half of route B though.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,221
Now that I have finally played through the game the prerequisite 7 times, here are my impressions.

Note: I've never played any other games in the series and know very little about them, I don't ascribe to Yoko Taro's personality cult and don't care how well he may or may not have trolled me. I just want to share how I feel about Nier: Automata as a game and whether I had fun with it.

The good:

1. The setting - by far my favorite part of the game. I thought it was a very interesting take on post-apocalypse. Instead of the brutal savage post-nuclear desert that I've seen quite many times in different games, the post-apocalyptic world of Nier is a quiet, serene place inhabited by robots that dig through the ruins of human civilization and try to understand the various aspects of humanity and imitate them, often unsuccessfully. I had a lot of fun just running around, exploring the world and learning more about it and the various characters that inhabit it. Because of my interest in the setting I even enjoyed doing the shitty sidequests as quite often they revealed more interesting and weird stuff, like the fucked up Romeo and Juliet play or the animal-loving robot, that ranged from cute and funny to creepy and depressing. There's a lot of dark and depressing shit that goes on in the game world, but not the usual post-apocalyptic kind of dark that involves a character being beaten to death by a bunch of painted savages as they rape his family and pet dog before his eyes, but rather the kind of dark that focuses on loneliness, emptiness and constant failures of different characters that don't fully understand why they are failing and even what they are doing.

2. The combat. While the combat in Nier is definitely not as good as in Devil May Cry games, Bayonetta or Metal Gear Rising, I can't think of a single 3rd person action game with melee combat of comparable quality, and I think Nier is still head and shoulders above average in this regard. The combat is very fast-paced, there are quite a lot of different attacks and combos you can do. Launching, air combos, smashing enemies into the ground, dodging, counterattacking all feels fluid and fun. The controls are very responsive and you can cancel every animation (except the fucking ranged counterattack which I kept doing by accident) and quickly jump out of the way of incoming danger. I played on Hard difficulty and the game was reasonably challenging. Quite many enemies could oneshot me so I had to keep jumping, dodging and constantly moving around while finding a good opportunity to counterattack in order not to get killed. While the game is not as difficult as something like Dark Souls, there still were a lot of times when my butt cheeks were clenched firmly as I was going through the last 10% of a boss's HP bar while trying not to get hit by an instakill stray projectile or some melee attack with a difficult to see animation. There's a reasonable enemy variety (although it's kind of diminished by the fact that a lot of enemies look the same and shoot the same slow energy orbs or red lasers) and the bosses were epic and fun to fight. Also there were no quick time events, which is always a big plus in my book.

3. The customization. I liked the plug-in chip system. It let me improve almost any stats of my character and even add new combat mechanics if I wanted. It's possible to do different builds, like crit, ranged damage and skills, counterattack-focused and etc. There's also a lot of different weapons and pod skills you can find. While there aren't many differences between weapons of a single type, you can use different weapon types in pretty much any combination, which lets you use different combos. The pod skills are fun to use and can further customize your play style, although some, like the shockwave, are very broken.

4. The music. It's great and adds a lot to the atmosphere of the game, and most importantly - there's a lot of it. Every area, almost every boss or story-related event has its own theme. Even side quests and optional areas have their own appropriate themes sometimes.

5. The weirdness. Nier Automata is definitely one of the strangest games I've played. There's a lot of things, from the plot and setting to how the story is presented to the player, that made me go "what the fuck". Have you ever played a game where configuring the brightness and audio in the options is integrated into the flow of the story, or where it is possible to "unequip" elements of the UI to make room for more stat bonuses? I sure haven't.

The meh:

1. The visuals. The graphics look dated and I really disliked the color palette they went with. The interface is brown, the robots you're fighting are brown, the areas are mostly grey and brown, then you enter a bright yellow desert and your bright yellow projectiles start blending with the sand and then you fight a boss who also shoots bright yellow projectiles and that's pretty much what you'll be seeing for most of the game - grey, brown and yellow. Sometimes everything switches to black and white for some reason. Still it's not all bad - the animations look great, the spell effects, despite all of them being yellow, also look good and varied and the design on some of the enemies looks cool. Overall, I wouldn't say it's an unpleasant game to look at.

2. The main plot. It's by no means bad and I was always interested in seeing what happens next. However, it's paced very unevenly. During the first playthrough the plot barely moves forward and all of the main quests are just "go investigate this place", "go kill those guys". I liked the main quest missions and each of them had their own small story to tell, but overall I felt like I was just aimlessly wandering the wasteland and murdering robots that may or may not have deserved it. There's one major development in the middle and then you fight the two antagonists that basically came from nothing and then returned to nothing. Then in the second playthrough you do all the same shit again and get a new twist at the end but the 3rd playthrough felt to me like a game of "how many plot twists can we cram into these last 5 hours of gameplay?". Everything was rushing through at a breakneck pace and became difficult to follow. Also there were some elements that I found very confusing. The start of the 3rd playthrough was great, both story and gameplay-wise, but when you start climbing those towers the game takes a nosedive into "what the fuck is even happening anymore" territory. Those tower sections felt like trippy dream sequences, except they were actual physical objects in the game world and they just posed more questions than they answered. But the final tower and the way everything is resolved was pretty great, in my opinion.

3. Not a fan of the "play the game 7 times to see the entire story" thing the developers went with. I feel it's completely unnecessary. Multiple playthroughs are good in games with actual choices and consequences and non-linearity. Nier, however, is completely linear, save for the choice at the very end, which the game expects you to re-do anyway if you want to get the "true ending". The second playthrough as 9S seemed like pointless padding of what is already a pretty lengthy game. Yes, I kinda see what they were going for - 1st playthrough is basically a full-on action slasher with cool setpieces and good combat, while the second one has worse combat and minigame cancer but the game shows you more backstory of different events and characters and you get to see just how sad and broken some of them are. Still, they could have just shown them to the player through flashbacks or something, without making them replay the same content in no fun allowed mode. Also, I wonder how many people just quit the game after beating it the 1st time thinking it's done - probably quite a lot.

4. The open world. While there's a lot of hidden weapons, events and even some secret locations you can find, for the most part the open world aspect of the game doesn't add anything meaningful. It also feels very tiny - you're just running around the same several zones filled with mobs and there are no activities besides kill, collect shit and fish.

The bleh:

1. The difficulty is very poorly balanced. Normal means "impossible to lose if you have opposable thumbs" while on hard many things can kill you in one hit. I think there's supposed to be some sort of middle ground between these two modes. However, even playing on hard the game is only challenging if you gimp yourself further and that's because:

2. The consumable system is completely fucked. Being able to carry hundreds of healing items on yourself and just pause the game at any time and use how many you want completely breaks the flow of the combat and makes you immortal in many situations. As a result, the level of challenge a particular enemy poses depends entirely on its ability to kill you in one hit. Can the enemy kill you in a single hit? If yes, then the fight is actually challenging and requires you to dodge, pick the right opportunities to attack and use your reflexes. If no, then you cannot lose because every time you get hit you can instantly potion yourself back to full health. To get the most out of Nier's combat I had to not only play on hard but also limit the amount of healing items I carried and I hate when a game forces me to do shit like this in order to enjoy it. Sure, you can play on very hard but dying from every hit is just as retarded. I think the gameplay would have been much better if the damage the enemies do to you was decreased, but there would be no ways to restore health instantly.

3. The sidequests, As I said, I still enjoyed doing them because of my interest in the game world, but the quests themselves are the laziest kind of MMORPG hunter-gatherer shit. Go there and kill X shit, bring me Y units of Z, go talk to that guy over there and then that guy and then come back and etc. Most of them don't even have any unique enemies you have to fight - you just fight the same shit you've been fighting before except now they're higher level and thus much stronger and spongier. This brings us to another thing I hate:

4. The leveling system. The levels in Nier works similarly to shitty MMOs where a difference in levels can result in a substantial decrease in the damage you do to the enemy just because your level is lower even if your stats do not differ that much. I really fucking hate when games do that. A level should never amount to anything more than the stats and skills it gives you. Here the levels don't give you that many stats, but for example if you're level 30 and fight a level 40 mob, it will take some time but you'll still be able to kill it, but a level 50 mob will take you 15 times longer to kill because the larger level difference will exponentially decrease the damage you do to it. I think a game like this shouldn't even have levels to begin with.

5. The constant gameplay and camera shifts. I guess the devs were trying to be creative with this one, but when I pay €60 €40 for an action game developed by Platinum, I expect a lot of fast-paced melee combat with free movement in all 3 dimensions. I don't want to play space invaders or geometry wars or a retro-style sidescroller I can play in a browser for free. Ok the arcade shootemup sections I didn't mind too much because at least they offered something different, but all the sidescroller or top down levels were total horseshit because it was essentially the same game with the same controls but severely limited movement options and visibility. Most of the time it was difficult to see what was going on during these sections because of all the explosions and particle effects and the camera not following your character. Also, going from full 3D movement to a 2D sidescroller felt like going from driving a car to riding a unicycle.

6. The PC controls were designed by a complete fucking mongoloid. Having to double tap the move button to dodge is difficult to pull off in a heated situation and it's hardcoded so you cannot change that without mods. Changing your weapons or items is bound to alt + arrow keys. Again, you cannot change that, it has to be alt + something. It's like the developers have never played a PC game before and don't know that we have this thing called the mouse wheel or side buttons. Also, while the mouse controls are decent in the 3D sections, in the sidescroller or top down sections even the tiniest mouse movement can make your little gun bot snap at 45 degree angles. Same thing happens in the hacking minigames.

7. The hacking minigames. Fuck them. They get old so fast.

TL;DR - I liked the game a lot, but it does have some pretty severe flaws that some people may not be willing to look past. If I were to rate it as objectively as I could, taking into account all the good and the bad, I'd give it a 7-7.5/10. However, I personally enjoyed it a lot more, like a solid 9/10. I guess the setting really clicked with me and after playing Dark Souls 1&2 almost back to back, it felt so good to play a game where you can properly jump, where dying at the boss spawns you right back at the boss and where you can actually pause. You really learn to appreciate these tiny things after they've been taken away from you.
 
Last edited:

Sentinel

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I just completed this game and it became one of my favourite games of all time. When I heard Yoko Taro saying "My only hope for this game is that it has a fond place in your memories and in your heart" I immediately dismissed it but holy shit this game made me feel like a kid all over again.

Aside from the simple combat, fetch quests (although thankfully they usually have a sort of twist and tell their own story, and one of them even spoils the entire game), the gay boysband design of Adam, Eve and 9S, and the real Ending E, which I thought was shit fanservice, I really don't have anything to point out against this game.

Poor fucking Pascal. Didn't deserve it.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Because the brain can only remember so much you can be forgiven for missing the 'aside' that sentence began with...
 

Revenant

Guest
Nice post, Suicidal, I wouldn't have bought the game if I read it prior to. What's also super annoying about the game is the inconsistency of save points - sometimes they're located like 20 meters from each other, sometimes you have to go through a lengthy segment plus a half an hour boss battle to get to another, which in the end is just infuriating and simply wastes your time.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Save points weren't an issue for me. Well, except for the intro sequence, which can be painful to repeat.
 

Revenant

Guest
The point at which the save system - among other things - made me quit the game was
the sea monster boss battle: it has at least 3 segments about 10 minutes length each, and is preceded by a significantly lengthy area. Since I wasn't able to beat the boss at the first two attempts, the idea that I had to replay the whole thing each time did it.
 

Saark

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Totally, that whole encounter only has 4 checkpoints so you basically had to replay 2-3minutes of the fight until you hit one of them. Absolutely unacceptable.
 

Revenant

Guest
Totally, that whole encounter only has 4 checkpoints so you basically had to replay 2-3minutes of the fight until you hit one of them. Absolutely unacceptable.
Did you read what I wrote, moron? I'm aware there were checkpoints, what I have problem with is that you have to redo them all if you restart the game.
 

Sentinel

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Ommadawn
I really don't have anything to point out against this game.
the simple combat, fetch quests (although thankfully they usually have a sort of twist and tell their own story, and one of them even spoils the entire game), the gay boysband design of Adam, Eve and 9S, and the real Ending E, which I thought was shit fanservice
"Aside from the simple combat, fetch quests (although thankfully they usually have a sort of twist and tell their own story, and one of them even spoils the entire game), the gay boysband design of Adam, Eve and 9S, and the real Ending E, which I thought was shit fanservice, I really don't have anything to point out against this game.
 

Revenant

Guest
I really disliked the color palette they went with.
Actually, that's one of the things I like about the game - it has the feel of a hangover because of the color/lighting solutions Taro used. It shows that he drinks, hehe, because part of the depressive feeling the game has is actually the feeling of being hung over in a bright day with the paranoia that goes with it. Nicely done, Taro, you goddamn Japanese alcoholic :hero:
 

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