Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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New Red Pill / Command video

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by GarfunkeL, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Yeah, so WarfareSims changed the name from Red Pill to Command. Game still looks good:

    http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1616

    So yeah, the game will include an easy-to-use scenario editor. Now Andhaira can finally create those dreams of his!
    Jigawatt Brofists this.
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  2. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Oh yeah and if you missed it, here's a video showing YAL-1 in action:
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  3. Raghar Magister

    Raghar
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    That's all fine and joy with small problems like: That airplane can fire into that steep angle above it, while these LASERs are able to do some deflection angle, firing above at that steep angle would require to move the whole airplane. The whole system was basically designed to intercept horisontally in the boos phase where atmosphere would expand the hole created by the hit.
    Now these explosions, at what altitude? You wouldn't know if the missile was destroyed or not, because its about maxQ altitude anyway. In fact the MARVs could already separate from the booster, and at what they shot? At the booster? The most likely target would be the booster because it has the largest RADAR/IR return, and basically it would do exactly nothing.

    Then there are also these problems with turning. These airplanes turned too fast for that large planes. Remember the sustained turn rate of F-22 is 28 degree/s. Yes big fat ass plane with volatile chemicals on board can turn fast, when they are not lucky they can do it once. Then there is also problem they didn't took time to do a ranging pulse. The LASER needs information for its adaptive optic, and when it will not project a reflection from the target, or place nearby it will have problem to deliver the full energy. It can use information from badly focused pulse, but then the first shot went into lest than spectacular place.

    Also they lick US arse.
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  4. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    No they don't ;). Unless semi-realistically portraying US equipment is licking their butt now. You have to give the dev team some rope, much of the equipment they are trying to model is still classified.

    As to YAL-1, you are absolutely correct about the initial procedure but nothing prevents it from "shooting" at missiles in-flight - the stress of supersonic flight is enough to destroy the missile as long as the laser manages to scratch it. In the tests USAF ran, the on-target time required for missile destruction turned out to be far less than estimated. Remember the targets are Iranian Shahab-3 missiles - the older, 3A version only had a single warhead. The latter, 3B version, is a MIRV but we don't really know at which point they separate from the booster/launch vehicle. Your complaint about the turn rate is a valid one. However, the whole Y/AL-1 is still on prototype stage and likely to never become operational. USAF didn't ask any money for the project in 2010 or 2011 even though the laser works - but I guess there are other problems.
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  5. Raghar Magister

    Raghar
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    172 km? There is no atmosphere to talk about. In fact, they didn't bother to simulate descent. When you look at the image, you see these missiles to accelerate to 5000+ kts.

    I have no problems with simulating a weird stuff not deployed in armies. I used Lun class in Harpoon without problem. (In North sea no less.) But there are small problems like trying to be popular at all costs. Basically a lot of theirs scenarios are quite one sided, thus calling them US lick arsers is quite reasonable.

    US and China have solid state LASERs research, and solid state LASERs are much better for real world use. So I doubt they would continue development of that airborne LASER, it's outdated technology.
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  6. Dimitris Novice

    Dimitris
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    Hi GarfunkeL, thanks for the plug!

    It would have been useful to include the "commentary" of the video from here: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1504

    This would have prevented some of the mis-assumptions that Raghar has formed.

    Some more recent videos:

    Multiple JDAM attack on airfield: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1504
    Mining the Hormuz straits: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1529
    Convoy attack: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1353
    Military satellites: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1602

    (I am linking to the articles rather than embedding the videos directly, as it appears that some guys need to read the commentary before forming an opinion and calling other people names).
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  7. Dimitris Novice

    Dimitris
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    Hi Raghar,

    Please give me a minute to get the US taste out of my tongue.

    Now...
    The commentary answers your question. The ABL-1s are shooting at the missiles as long as they are in the boost phase and hence they can track them. After burnout, the warheads separate from the booster and the lasers can no longer engage.

    I don't remember the manouverability value of the ABL-1 in the database, if it's unrealistically high we can of course modify it.

    The ranging pulse happens just before the main laser fires (if there is significant time difference then the range figure will be inaccurate), so for our purposes it's not worth modelling as a separate action.

    Thank you. It's so nice to know that (together with Ragnar Emsoy) I've been fighting an uphill battle since _1995_ for more realistic modelling of "Eastern" hardware & doctrine in various air/nav games (Harpoon in particular but also others), so that in 2012 someone in a web forum can accuse me of sucking up to the US of A. It really makes these 17 years worthwhile.

    The majority of the videos feature US hardware for the simple reason that that hardware is more widely known, recognized and understood by people interested in mil matters. Pretty much everyone knows the ABL-1; how many know of the Beriev A-60, or the Almaz THEL demonstrator, or, or....? When we made that video the ABL-1 was still on the edge of cancellation (it has since been axed for good, for the reasons you mention). We put it there because we wanted to show that yes, we can now model high-energy beam weapons (another first in the genre). This feature is going to be very important as beam-DEWs crawl into service.

    Wrong. We model both variable ascent & descent rates with horizontal acceleration (as described on the commentary).

    ...and as more information becomes available on these systems, including firm deployment plans, we'll be only too happy to add them to our database. We are also looking into directed-EMP warheads, another game-changer.
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  8. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Hah, looking forward to your game, Dimitris. Played Harpoon to death when younger, have been looking for something like this to scratch that itch. Still sorry that you changed the name, Red Pill was original, but oh well, the game is looking good.
    Jigawatt Brofists this.
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  9. Raghar Magister

    Raghar
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    Did it stopped fire after MaxQ? How large was max vertical shooting angle?

    It's about the same as the aircraft it was based upon.

    How are you modelling to hit probability?

    Yes that's common on internet. I was educated on game development/serious game development numerous times by small children, and other less smart people. There are two possibilities. 1. They would try you to explain stuff. You'd discover incredible things and have fun on theirs mistakes. 2. They would badmouth you behind you back. In the first case, they had passion which is a great thing. The second case means you are talking with completely normal people without spine. Who cares about them.

    You said something you are fighting for introduction of non west HW into simulations. Then show that.

    Brazil has its new fighter competition. Why don't you create a tongue in cheek video about Brazil's attack against Falklands? Assume Brazil would use Argentina bases. Make it absurd and funny.
    For example: There is a suicide attack of Gripens NG E/F M819 against prepared EF2000 and ground defenses. Wow they even caused some damage. Too bad they run out of fuel on return.
    Rafale, while its SPECTRA scared everyone even allies, at least it managed to return back. That was a big plus, too bad about price.

    Then there are also Chinese fleets, and Chinese aircraft.

    A lot of people know airplanes like J-11BS, J-15, and J-20. I seen video of J-15 where two people were doing kissing sounds. Is your DB sufficiently detailed to have all Chinese air to air missiles?

    Are you using RK4, RK6, or something better?

    EMP is notoriously unreliable because results are often variable. One blast can kill electronic, while another can cause seemingly no damage. I wouldn't call them game changer.
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