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New JA2 1.13 stable release now available!

Brinko

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
884
I'm about to finish my playthrough of the game with this version of 1.13. Like some people have mentioned, it's a mixed bag sometimes, which is why every time I install it I spend an hour modifying the INI settings, which has become less tedious with the new editor, until everything is to my liking. For example, this time I disabled the new permanent item damage and dirt systems and enabled the overheating system, making it slightly more severe than in the default settings.

Gotta say, that new disguise and infiltration system is a blast. A bit overpowered and silly in certain situations when the merc has the spy major trait, like being able to walk with the character in the middle of a group of enemies during a firefight to act as an advanced spotter, yet if an enemy dies too close to him every enemy will blame him and he'll lose the disguise. Other times it feels much better and makes for some great high-risk high-reward gameplay where you can infiltrate bases to disarm or blow up alarms/computers or try to pick off stragglers with silenced weapons, throwing knives or a garrote and hiding the bodies, that if it works it's great but one mistake like stumbling upon a disguise-ruining elite when turning a corner or failing an attack leads to your spy getting fucked almost every single time. With some tweaking and balancing this system can be truly great.

Also I liked the new option to trigger a Drassen-style massive counterattack for every city you conquer. You can also make it so those massive attacks happen every now and then, but more than once seems just tedious to me.

I had a great AI moment during the army counterattack to retake Cambria, which happened at the Mine sector where all my mercs in the region were bunched up with 32 elite militia ready to assault the SAM site just South of there. The army attacked at night from the South with a force comprised exclusively of well-equipped elites and from the East with a second force of mostly redshirts. The militia that were closer to the enemy were quickly picked off while the rest spread towards the South and East to set up a defensive line while I hid my mercs in a small wooden building because I was curious about how the AI would act in this kind of situation. My militiamen formed in a wide perimeter and used some break lights to try to find the enemy which in most cases failed, especially in the South where the elites were damn good at avoiding the illuminated areas and it was clear they were using decent NVG.

After a couple of turns it was clear my men were losing and getting encircled, so I ordered them to take cover and most of them ran to the center of the map and set up a decent defensive position using trees and rocks as cover. That's when the enemy used a mortar to send a well-aimed illumination shell right in the middle of the militia which made then light up light Christmas trees and had a wide enough area of effect to illuminate all of my men and none of the enemies stalking them. The next turn the militia received a hail of sniper and LMG fire and sometimes there weer glimpses of other enemies moving at the edge of the illuminated area. Then the next turn an enemy officed called a mortar strike (another new feature) from the nearby SAM site sector, where later I indeed found a mortar, and four shells fell on the militia's position killing half of them and knocking out the rest.

Since nobody could spot any enemies, the game switched to real time mode and for the next half minute I heard how the enemy finished off the knocked out militia with knives. Then complete silence.

I don't know if that strategy from the AI was just a fluke since other times they act as retarded as usual, but holy shit I love this game and this mod.
:bravo:
Did you ever get rifles and pistols to go beyond 4 clicks into aiming? That was my big gripe as I spent about 2 hours in that INI editor and couldn't get it to work. Even with scopes and other attachments it never wanted to work.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
The huge flaw of 1.13 (any version) is the implementation of scopes.
It's the main reason to avoid playing 1.13 the first time.
Scopes in 1.13 are totally broken and overpowered and change the gameplay (for the worse) compared to vanilla JA2, be it with the NCtH or OCtH system
The first issue is that scopes provide a much too big accuracy bonus (you only have one scope in vanilla and i would say it provides no much more accuracy bonus than a scope x2 so imagine a scope x7 or even x10...).
The second and more problematic issue is that unlike vanilla, scopes in 1.13 provide vision range bonus (and a huge one on top of that).
To make it short not only the AI manage very badly vision range bonus and it completely change the vanilla gameplay making the game a cakewalk (and the AI making stupid things) once you have good scopes.
You are not supposed to have vision range bonus in daylight.
Last time I played the scopes didn't do shit except for the reflex sight which owned all. So I'm sort of glad that they at least got them working as intended (even if that is bad).
 

Luka-boy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
1,642
Location
Asspain
Did you ever get rifles and pistols to go beyond 4 clicks into aiming? That was my big gripe as I spent about 2 hours in that INI editor and couldn't get it to work. Even with scopes and other attachments it never wanted to work.
Are you using the New Chance to Hit system? If so I'm pretty sure each weapon has a set base value for its aiming levels that can only be slightly affected by scopes and attachments. And those values are probably in some XML table.

I've had some rifles go beyond four clicks, like my squad leader's AK-74 allowing six clicks when he uses its PSO-1 scope instead of its reflex sight. Then again, I'm using NCTH and in it having more aiming levels isn´t an unambiguously good thing, since it means that the weapon requires more time and effort to line up the best possible shot under current circumstances.
 

Brinko

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
884
Did you ever get rifles and pistols to go beyond 4 clicks into aiming? That was my big gripe as I spent about 2 hours in that INI editor and couldn't get it to work. Even with scopes and other attachments it never wanted to work.
Are you using the New Chance to Hit system? If so I'm pretty sure each weapon has a set base value for its aiming levels that can only be slightly affected by scopes and attachments. And those values are probably in some XML table.

I've had some rifles go beyond four clicks, like my squad leader's AK-74 allowing six clicks when he uses its PSO-1 scope instead of its reflex sight. Then again, I'm using NCTH and in it having more aiming levels isn´t an unambiguously good thing, since it means that the weapon requires more time and effort to line up the best possible shot under current circumstances.
No I tried it before but it was a shitshow to me. It used to be easy with just allow more aim levels and one other setting and you were good. Or maybe I am a retard because JA2 never liked it when I had Xfire running but I was so pissed after 2+ hours of fucking with settings I just washed my hands of it all.

Too much work fiddling with nobs for no real payoff, maybe I'll try again when the Arulco revisited guys port their shit over.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's fun until you have a trillion militia idiots taking potshots, and the game takes ten years to resolve a turn.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
In NCTH system, you want as few aiming clicks as possible.

And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!

Helicopters can now do hot-inserts, by the way.

Also, does barbed wire and sandbags finally work now?
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
It's fun until you have a trillion militia idiots taking potshots, and the game takes ten years to resolve a turn.
It helps if you call all the militia over into a building and then lock them in. This keeps them together and prevents them from running around like buffoons and getting themselves killed. Summon them over into a building, then plant mines blocking the door, then flag the mines so that they do not attempt to cross them. This forces them to stay in the building and fire out of the windows.
 

Luka-boy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
1,642
Location
Asspain
Also, does barbed wire and sandbags finally work now?
I haven't tested concertinas, but placing and removing sandbags definitely works. You just need to remember to use your shovel in its build mode instead of its default weapon mode. Sadly it seems you can't place them in all maps, though.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
It would be great if some codexer would curate an .ini file that only includes interesting/solidly implemented stuff that makes 1.13 obviously better than vanilla, like visible THC/fully working suppression/new inventory/whatever, plus correctly tweaked game balance options. For newbies that haven't played JA2 a billion times and for lazy people such as myself that have the urge to play JA2 but zero urge to tinker. People are telling newbies to play vanilla as the standard internet background opinion when IMO the best stuff in 1.13 is a clear improvement, just because there's too much shit to mess with.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!
If you make it realistic, doesn't balance sort of work itself out? If it ends up OP, that's because because it's that way in real life, too.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
It would be great if some codexer would curate an .ini file that only includes interesting/solidly implemented stuff that makes 1.13 obviously better than vanilla, like visible THC/fully working suppression/new inventory/whatever, plus correctly tweaked game balance options. For newbies that haven't played JA2 a billion times and for lazy people such as myself that have the urge to play JA2 but zero urge to tinker. People are telling newbies to play vanilla as the standard internet background opinion when IMO the best stuff in 1.13 is a clear improvement, just because there's too much shit to mess with.
Be that codexer.
 

timothy

Novice
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
10
And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!
If you make it realistic, doesn't balance sort of work itself out? If it ends up OP, that's because because it's that way in real life, too.
Well, JA2 maps are probably not quite big enough for realistic scopes to be balanced. We need maps large enough so that the engagement ranges vary enough for every real world gizmo to be 'balanced'.
 

Wizfall

Cipher
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
816
And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!
If you make it realistic, doesn't balance sort of work itself out? If it ends up OP, that's because because it's that way in real life, too.
Different tastes.
Base 1.13 scopes values break the game, it is not a only a matter of balance.
The AI cannot handle properly scopes and it is the problem (the AI never use scope for scouting among other things).
As a result the AI makes stupid moves, hurting "immersion" on top of making the game a cakewalk.
Scopes are indeed implemented quite realistically but the AI can't make a realistic use of and the maps/gameplay are not make for it
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
The AI cannot handle properly scopes and it is the problem (the AI never use scope for scouting among other things).

Are you sure of this? Because I have seen AI enter into aim / ready weapon stance several times when they don't know where I am but know I'm around. If any of them had scopes (and I think they did), that would be AI using scopes for scouting, wouldn't it?
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
906
Location
Malaysia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!
If you make it realistic, doesn't balance sort of work itself out? If it ends up OP, that's because because it's that way in real life, too.

Real life is not balanced at all. Drones with missiles/ Bombers and artillery pawn everything on the battlefield
Also nuclear bombs
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Yeah, the issue is that the maps are not large enough to really support 100% realism and the AI can not utilize all the tricks that a human can.

And it still occasionally has a brainfart and wastes turns just running back and forth because it can't decide what to do. But at other times it uses snipers and machinegunners to pin you in place while a second fireteam flanks you. It makes me tear up when that happens.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
And I don't know what kind of scopes you've used, Wizfall, but that's exactly how scopes work IRL. That's one great thing I love about 1.13 - they've never given a fuck about "balance" or anything - if it exists IRL, throw it in!
If you make it realistic, doesn't balance sort of work itself out? If it ends up OP, that's because because it's that way in real life, too.
Different tastes.
Base 1.13 scopes values break the game, it is not a only a matter of balance.
The AI cannot handle properly scopes and it is the problem (the AI never use scope for scouting among other things).
As a result the AI makes stupid moves, hurting "immersion" on top of making the game a cakewalk.
Scopes are indeed implemented quite realistically but the AI can't make a realistic use of and the maps/gameplay are not make for it

A pity there is more interest in adding inane new features than in fixing the AI to use scopes properly. Or maybe they actually gave up trying to fix it.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,267
Yeah, the issue is that the maps are not large enough to really support 100% realism and the AI can not utilize all the tricks that a human can.
Pretty much this.

A while back I read up on all the NCTH stuff. It was amazing detail, with tons of weapons being calibrated based on real-world tests of accuracy of specified ranges. The trouble was that the in-game representation of distance pegs 1 tile = 10 yards (might have been 10 feet, can't remember), which is of course ludicrous as soon as you have any situation other than 2 people standing completely still in an open area shooting at each other. Suddenly firing at someone across the street or across an average room is a hundred feet and your choice is between taking 2 maximum-aim pistol shots that still have a 75% chance to miss or covering that distance in what would realistically be the blink of an eye and knifing someone 4 times in the same turn. So as soon as the realism is finished we have to fuck with the ini to somehow get it working with how the game actually represents the world, and its not really pretty.

A pity there is more interest in adding inane new features than in fixing the AI to use scopes properly. Or maybe they actually gave up trying to fix it.
From a programming point of view I can see why someone would be wary of delving into things, because as soon as you start you become the "AI guy" and suddenly every complaint about how the AI works becomes your responsibility.
 
Last edited:

whatevername

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
666
Location
666
That's why I wrote you should have a bunch of tranq guns so you can shoot without wasting AP on reloading in case an accident happens.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
And the enemies don't get interrupts or anything? I've tried to do the solo or small-team night sneaky infiltration things multiple times but they eventually always fail because it only requires one enemy to get an interrupt to cause an alarm and then there's 10-20 enemy soldiers crashing down on you. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
 

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