Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline NEO Scavenger: A Post-Apocalyptic Survival RPG

Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
I think if there has to be a save ability, it might work out if you had to be fully healthy, well fed, well hydrated, comfortable and only do so once every, I don't know, let's say, 100 turns? Perhaps more. Or maybe the game should take snapshot saves every 200 turns, out of your control and whether you like it or not so you don't get to choose.

How about this: once you hit your 100th turn in the game, it checks if you are (1)healthy, (2)uninjured, (3)fed, (4)hydrated, (5) rested and (6) comfortable and if you meet all of the conditions and then can manage to stay that way for another, say, 50 turns, the game will finally save and will check back again 200 turns later. High turn requirements to reward good play and avoid savescumming, and also to increase the likeliness that despite your best efforts, you will fuck something up :lol:
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,230
Location
Ingrija
Personally, I think it would remove a lot of the atmosphere of the game. Some people don't like it because getting killed is unpleasant.

You can only understand the Spirit Of The Wasteland if you have to restart every 3 minutes :roll:

Some people just can't seem to grasp a difference between "challenge" and "frustration". Hint: the latter is not fun.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
Personally, I think it would remove a lot of the atmosphere of the game. Some people don't like it because getting killed is unpleasant.

You can only understand the Spirit Of The Wasteland if you have to restart every 3 minutes :roll:

Some people just can't seem to grasp a difference between "challenge" and "frustration". Hint: the latter is not fun.
What "challenge" and what "frustration"?
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
I don't know. I don't restart until I get frustrated. I just stop playing. I used to get a lot of frustration from reloading when playing Fallout 1/2.
 

Онега

Trying too hard to get banned
Queued
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
121
Location
бомбоуёбищe
Pick Athletic. Game won. Got bored of clicking... Whats the point?

Allow to save everywhere, load everywhere, whatever. If someone Ironmans, its his call. You can give him a Medal (Achievederpment).

Reduce the amount of clicking. Its killing all the CYOA fun that might find its way in there...
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,514
Location
casting coach
Played a bit more now.

Firstly I think the combat system definitely needs some change - atm you can avoid every encounter by running away from it, if you make sure you only scavenge when you've got 4 or more action points left, so even athletic isn't necessary. A combat screen when you're in the same hex with someone, would seem more fitting than fighting across tiles. Maybe use the CYOA mechanics for combat, that you can sneak on an enemy and such, if you spot them first (or just hide until they leave). With tracking helping in noticing them, or some new alertness skill to avoid being snuck on yourself. And diplomacy possibility with the humans.
And possibly totally do away with the action points system, I don't quite see its point for anything but that guaranteed auto-escape. Just have singular moves, with them taking more ingame time (and thus making you thirsty etc. faster) if you're in bad condition or moving across more difficult tiles?

Also is night vision skill supposed to increase your search odds always, even during day?

And dying from cholera without ever knowing you have it is pretty lame.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
I died of multiple things all at once! The game over text said something like:

You starved to death! You have suffered dehydration and died due to organ failure! You suffered a stroke and died!

Night vision skill should be renamed, I guess. It makes sense that when you're scavenging in buildings, which ought to be dark, it helps with finding more things things and avoiding structural hazards but the name is a bit eh.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Damn the game is kind of brutal, but tough is fun of course. Here are a couple of issues that I think can improve the experience:

1) Allow user to change between drag/drop modes with a keyboard command. Having to go up to the top of the screen to change from move to get/drop is a real pain in the ass. The UI would be soooo much better if this was done

2) Having to drag an ability from a separate screen onto the items screen for crafting purposes makes crafting a pain. I haven't even messed with crafting much because the UI is sort of clumsy here.

3) Water seems to be a bit out of whack- if a single water unit is enough to fill a bottle, I think it should hydrate a lot more. Right now, you drink two water units and it's barely enough to recharge 2 or 3 bars, and you're dying of thirst within another 2 turns or so.

4) Get bullets directly to gun would be useful I think, it's kind of a pain in the ass to load manually right now
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
1) Allow user to change between drag/drop modes with a keyboard command. Having to go up to the top of the screen to change from move to get/drop is a real pain in the ass. The UI would be soooo much better if this was done
There are keys for changing the modes. IIRC they are 1, 2 and 3.

2) Having to drag an ability from a separate screen onto the items screen for crafting purposes makes crafting a pain. I haven't even messed with crafting much because the UI is sort of clumsy here.
You can craft automatically by clicking recipes.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
Has anyone been able to enter the city? I got a ticket thingy but still got turned back from the gates. Also, how do you talk to Hatter again? When he offered me the job, I used a skill (which lead to him giving me the ticket) but now I can't talk to him again in his hex.
 

dcfedor

Blue Bottle Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
Phew, been frantically trying to keep up with the threads popping up around the web, as well as my own site. So I apologize in advance if I miss someone's question or suggestion.

First off, you should now be able to play the game in a stretchy window using the links above both the demo and beta embedded flash area. Hopefully no more having to fidget with Swiffout, and no more eyestrain!

Second, I really like both Villain and Johannes's ideas about spotting/alertness. The Beta version has a sneak mechanic that lays some good groundwork for such a system, and it would pair well with the tracking/footprints system already in place. I'll have to look into how hard such a thing would be to implement.

About the combat, the original design kinda worked like a CYOA, much like scavenging or other encounters. I wanted the sort of "you see a humanoid in the distance" encounter, and you could use binoculars to see how he was armed, or combine a camo blanket and hiding to avoid being seen, etc. I still like the idea, it's just a *ton* of work to do an encounter with more than a few meaningful choices. I still may do it, and I'm glad to see some would've liked the idea. I just have the more Civ-like combat in there as a stopgap for now.

Re: save games, yeah. Every time someone makes an argument in one way or another, I end up agreeing. Convincing arguments both for and against, and for each style. It's a *really* tough call.

Re: "what's the point?" It's a good question. I find I get to that point with a lot of open-style games. And with story games, I often stop after the story. I'd like to tell a story in the world of NEO Scavenger (many, in fact), but not force it down the player's throat. But, inevitably, most players will get tired and move on once they've had their fill.

There's a chance I may be able to add user-created content hooks in there. The encounter system might actually do some really cool things in the hands of players. But the amount of DB editing to hook everything up right now is pretty prohibitive. That may be more of a late stage feature.

Re: too much clicking, there are *some* hotkeys in the game, though I'm guilty of hiding that fact. Many tooltips on buttons will have a key listed in parentheses if there's a hotkey. E.g. the item cursor modes are 1-4, end turn is spacebar, inventory is Q, etc.

Re: dying of cholera without warning. You got a warning, just like Awor says! Diarrhea and vomiting, and your thirst starts to plummet :)

Crafting = clunky. I totally hear ya. And it's getting worse the more recipes I add. I don't have a magic bullet to solve that yet, but it's definitely on my radar.

Re: entering the city. The beta actually bars entry due to an "orange threat level." It's a stopgap until I can work on more plot encounters, so unfortunately, that's the end of the plot for the time being. And for Hatter, if you complete his encounter and get the wrist tracking device, there are no more quests (yet). Even though he says "come back sometime," I have yet to write some more plots after the first.

Hope that answers some question, and alleviates a few concerns. As always, great feedback!
 

potatojohn

Arcane
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
2,646
Once again Linux proves to be the superior gaming platform. :smug:

My window manager allows me to zoom in on any window to display it fullscreen.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
I've been playing a few times now and every time it tells a fun story, albeit often short a one.

I found a plastic bag and started packing pretty much everything I could find in it (that seemed somewhat useful). Berries, water, pills, cola. When searching some old shack a raider found me and mortally wounded me with a shot. Luckily I could get away and he only chased me for a hex. I then found an abandoned house and hit jackpot. Clothes, shoes, meat cleaver (although it doesn't seem very effective) and a bag. Great, I thought, a bag. Now I can carry more stuff than with this plastic bag. However, replacing bag doesn't seem to transfer items from container to container? Anyway before I could really do anything a dogman found me and killed me off.

What are the chances of being found by raiders, looters, dogmen etc. when scavenging? Does Hide decrease the chance? Cuz I've had someone jump my ass every single time I scavenge.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Zed with most containers, simply dropping something from the bag in your bag slot will automatically drop it into a container on the ground, however since plastic bags are wadded up when not in use, you have to put something in it before the autofill thing will take place.

Also, if you have one empty hand, you can put a plastic bag in that hand and use it to carry things as well. You can also do that with packs. Not really ideal, but it's a way to hoard stuff.

Also, if you're really lucky you might find a nice shopping cart. :)
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
What are the chances of being found by raiders, looters, dogmen etc. when scavenging? Does Hide decrease the chance? Cuz I've had someone jump my ass every single time I scavenge.
Nevermind, I just figured out how it works cuz I finally picked traits that I could use in these scenarios. Cool stuff! :)
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,514
Location
casting coach
What are the chances of being found by raiders, looters, dogmen etc. when scavenging? Does Hide decrease the chance? Cuz I've had someone jump my ass every single time I scavenge.
I'm under the impression that the "sneaking" scale determines how likely you're to be attacked. And "safety" is meter how likely it is to get a building collapse on you.

Oh, maybe there was a diarrhea and vomiting that I just somehow missed.


Btw, if somebody wants to know how to beat the game as it is now, a quick rundown - pick medic, night vision, athletics and metabolism. None of these are strictly needed (except medic if you don't want to risk restarting), but they seem like the most useful ones, or dunno about eagle eye which might be on par with them. Didn't try botanism or trapping either.
Get the knife and healing equipment from the cryo lab.
Then proceed eastward, scavenge only when you have 4 or more moves available. Ie. try to end your turn on a tile you want to scavenge in. If you get rubble on you, use a charge of the healing kit. If you get an enemy encounter, always run - no exceptions, they'll never catch you if you have enough AP stored. Unless if you have a rifle fighting might be worth the risk, not sure. Don't be afraid to skip searchable tiles, just proceed east. Get food and clean drink and clothes, crowbar is nice too but weapons and such are mostly vanity items, not necessary for survival. Forest shacks are best locaitons to search. Don't eat mushrooms or berries, they're a risk.
Of course always use NV skill when scavenging.
When you get to city get hatters quest, maybe buy water (or purification pills) if you're low or medical stuff if you can afford. Go to his quest location, get the item, return, that's it. Or have some skill Villain had and skip the whole hut business?
Moving around is pretty fast in the end, never stop to rest. No idea when sleeping is safe or not exactly.
Stuff gets repetitive fast when you know how to survive (ie. run away), but there's potential.

And in the hut encounter it would be nice if night vision and/or NV goggles would do something. Unless the skill already passively helped me and I would've died without it when gong downstairs or something?
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
I keep dying of cholera dammit! Even though I drink only purified water and eat only canned/bagged food!

I had Tracking skill and used it while talking to hatter. My character noticed some details and hatter came forward with some details and handed me the pass. Told me that somebody in the city was expecting me and he figured that he found himself a sucker for his urn business. He still told me to come back if I needed a job but I couldn't talk to him again in that game.

More general advice: don't even bother with crumbling buildings. Unnecessary risk of injury (you might need to work on that, Daniel. I've found that I can ignore crumbling buildings completely and I know I'm not missing anything. If there is awesome loot to be found, it can be found elsewhere safer. A few ways to add value to crumbling buildings: hiding spots. When face to face with a hostile, you can hide in a crumbling building at risk of injury. Higher odds of quality loot. Perhaps if you add interior navigation at some point, whether through text menus or with actual graphics, you can turn some of the crumbling buildings into mini-dungeons. Maybe some buildings have underground connections to some other buildings or I don't know. Navigational text adventures for interiors would rock so hard, btw ). Just skip them. Don't be afraid to explore any building as long as you have straight terrain to escape to in case a looter or dogman shows up. If you get the nanorobotic medical kit, try not to waste it. If you get one full (three thingamajigs in it), you can sell it for $950 at the junkyard.

Oh, if you have ranged skill, a rifle (and bullets of course), you can one-shot most looting sonnovabitches from the junkyard. They don't attack you while you're in junkyard :smug:
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
How the hell do you mount the scope OR the rifle sling the scope on the rifle? Oh so it takes screw junk pile and a multitool to mount a rifle sling or a scope on the rifle.

I believe I've discovered a bug. You can't fire a loaded rifle anymore, the game says it's empty (I made sure to try the both instances of the rifle from the weapon selection). And you can't even load a rifle with sling now.

EDIT: Just lost a fully upgraded rifle to the auto-placement bug. I removed the multitool from the combo box and the rifle got disappeared into nothingness as there wasn't space in the ground inventory.

I just discovered that Trapping skill contributes to safety but not in every building. There seems to be a inconsistency with this.

I guess I should register at the game's forum.
 

dcfedor

Blue Bottle Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
Cool, thanks for the rifle bugs! I'll definitely check those out, I thought I fixed load/fire issues, but maybe I missed a couple.

And the crumbling buildings definitely are dangerous :) I like the idea of "using" buildings to advantage, like what you're saying. Hiding, shelter, etc. Though it may be a while before buildings are fully navigable (except the haunted house, which is a light version of what you describe).

Re: lost rifle, it didn't appear on your shoulder, did it? It's hard to see back there (can only see the barrel poking over shoulder). But there's a good chance it was lost. Once the ground is full, the game kinda gives up finding spaces for it. Though, maybe I can switch off the "auto-empty-yield" feature that triggers when a crafting yield item is clicked.

Re: NV goggles in the haunted house, that's an interesting idea! The house is fairly limited so far. I didn't have a lot of time to devote to it (compared to the cryo or Hatter encounters), but there are probably some items/skills, like the NV goggles, that make sense as options there. Will note that for later!

And *do* feel free to register on the forums! Now that they've grown quite a bit, I should probably be a good host and lurk there more often, instead of forums across the internet :)
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom