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Incline NEO Scavenger: A Post-Apocalyptic Survival RPG

dcfedor

Blue Bottle Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
Aw, I like Chiko's mod (Extended)! It's true that he may add more than I would've, but his stuff has heart :) He's handy with a digital pencil, too! I haven't tried it in a while, though, so I can't comment on the balance. From what I do know, he's added a lot more variety to existing items and battle moves, so I think it scratches the itch that many a klepto RPGer has: more interesting loot to discover and try.

I've not tried too many others, but Kaaven's Mega (Mini) Mod of Doom is worth looking into, as well. If I had employees, Kaaven would probably be one of my first. He's got similar design sensibilities to my own, and is intimately familiar with the game systems and lore. A lot of what he's added reflects stuff on my wishlist, and he's also probably the most familiar with the technical side of modding. (Indeed, many of his ideas made it into the game!)

Last I checked was about a month ago, but the number of in-development mods had mushroomed compared to pre-2015. So I reserve the right to be ignorant of new developments!

Also, Grimwulf, if you're looking for alternative approaches to playing, new builds and playstyles can significantly change the tone of the game. E.g. going from combat-skilled to combat-avoidance is a big shift, as is trying to mine data and lore (hacker, mechanic, electrician). Lin started a guide on Steam with Kaaven to help players squeeze new lore out of the game:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296902926

As Multi-headed Cow says, it isn't difficult to beat (unlike Nethack, for example). But the game was specifically designed to be replayed with different approaches, as not all content is visible in a single game, or even one build over multiple games.
 

Disgruntled

Savant
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
400
Id like to join the chorus of support for this game being featured in the Goty list. I was mildly aware of its presence but avoided it assuming it was an overhyped indie fad with poor production quality.
Given the codex high praise I spent 20 ausbucks and havent regretted it. (though I do regret looking back at my humble emails knowing I could have bought it for a dollar last year).

The brilliance for me is the intuitive and logic/realism driven nature of the game. The inventory works like its supposed to, the crafting makes sense, the survival challenges, the organic interactions.. its all within the realm of common sense, unlike the usual frustration in video games which make you ask 'why cant I do this?' or 'how do I get away with this?'.
And being an open world game with so much loot further makes me forget about the simplistic graphics, engrossing me within the experience. This is the rpg that does gameplay > graphics right, there are too many developers skimping on visuals while offering very little in return and still using the excuse.
The AI has really impressed me compared to countless big budget contemporaries. Gearing up and seeing looters flee rather than mindlessly charging into death does wonder in making them human.


I cant criticize too much given this has been built by a single dev. But I will echo sentiments about the lack of quests and static milestones that make replays a bit of a chore. On a personal level this has sort of spoiled the game a bit combined with the save game issue.
My best attempt made it to MegaCity, I extraced the save game because my flash saves get wiped by various apps, spoke to hatter, accepted his first quest instead of using my tracking ability, got curious and retried the save game with tracking. To my surprise this impressed hatter allowing me to skip the first quest and gave access to DMC, not long after I accepted his second quest which didnt sound too final given how I soon I received it.
Lacking funds and being my only available mission, I naturally pursued it. Id been reading the various news clippings so I had built the tinfoil poncho by the time I made it to camp grayling. Long story short, I got past all the obstacles and the only other instance where I had 'cheated' was a reload after mistakenly clicking on barracks instead of hangar for the final ADS run. It was a real anti-climax to find this was the game ending. It could be argued that I should have accepted one or both of my misclicks but given that these encounters were not randomised another replay would be led by my existing knowledge towards the same path. I still played like it was permadeath and succeeded all the other survival checks.

What makes it hard to accept is the way I was guided towards it, being the second hatter mission and the only one available to me at DMC spoke more about the lack of quests rather than the grim nature of an unforgiving world. There really has to be more to do and meet at such a large city if you are going to hint towards heading there. Only then could I understand having such a game ending path available so early as it would be a doomed to fail deadend rather than an accidental speedrun towards the finale.

edit: started a new game, went north instead of east and ran into zom zoms, wound up getting a quest... which again pointed me straight to camp grayling. :(
 
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Dreaad

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
5,604
Location
Deep in your subconscious mind spreading lies.
So after making a home for myself in the cryo whatever facility. I scavenged around the nearby area, so that this time I would properly prepared for journey to the glow. I think I over prepared :lol: had some close calls too against those fucking dogmen and blue sash froggers or whatever. Survived the forest beastie, though didn't get any phat loot from in there, got some fun stuff from isotope mine, have no intirest in giving away location of cryo facility so didn't join in the cannibalism place.

NE0VO9d.png

fEPql5K.png

Can't say my box cart has much durability, so I hope we make it there, mostly going to fill up those bags with purified water, soup and preserved meat. I got a tanning rack, tarp tent and wood/water/berries/vegetables collection in the forest hex next door to the facility.

MPqCHmC.png


SmJRcMa.png


Had a some nasty fights, but nothing some pain killers the nano healing machine couldn't fix.

sl77AGO.png

Honestly struggling a lot with the micro management of smoking, insomniac and sleeper. Can't sleep anywhere unless it's ridiculously secured because one night my dude woke up, was hit 3 times before he even saw what was attacking him :roll:. Lucky armor rolls saved me there. And yeah being fragile is a massive pain in the ass.

Kkv5E00.png



... thought I'd share.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,752
Make the Codex Great Again!
I played this a lot during beta, then started it again when it was released on GOG (double dipped), spending a good part of my leave in December playing the shit out of it and getting myself burned out after clocking in about 20 hours. One of the more memorable encounters I had was with a Strong / Tough / Melee build. I jumped a DMC guard, then darted from cover to cover until he was within melee range. With my trusty crowbar I clobbered him to death, then relieved him of his armour and weapons. Easy kill, easy gains, with nobody the wiser of my dark deed!

The thought made me greedy, so I decided to jump another DMC guard at night. I mean why not, right? So I jump him at 20 units away, then dart from cover to cover. I was closing in. 7...6 units, 5, now 3, DMC guard tries to run but trips. I run forward, proceed to beat the shit out of him. What could go wrong right? :popamole:

DMC Guard summons Drone.
 

GlutenBurger

Cipher
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
644
It kind of bothers me that you're somehow able to wear plastic bags as backpacks, but can't do the same with makeshift sacks. Particularly during runs that refuse to produce any proper backpacks.

I'm still in the early stages of figuring things out. Is whiskey the only way to sterilise rags without boiling them? I haven't found any other substances capable of doing so, and there's so frequently someone nearby making me reluctant to build a fire.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
As far as I know, yeah. Though being desperate for clean bandages is kinda unusual, even if you don't have a good stash from early game looting you can just tear up some clothes and then boil them in a safe location. And since they stack pretty well once you've got a full pile with you that should last at least until you're back in a safe place, and if not you've probably got bigger problems than cleaning bandages.
 

GlutenBurger

Cipher
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
644
Yeah, I think my main problem at this point is attempting to explore too broadly too quickly, instead of making sure I prepare the essentials. Mostly it's just an opportunity to experiment with more things before facing certain death, but some games are so stingy with clothing that there's little choice. I guess forestalling the cold and accumulating clean rags can often be achieved at the same time, at least.
 

MicoSelva

backlog digger
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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
After my Banner Saga fiasco I was looking for something else to play on my tablet* and started this game - and it is fucking great! I love both the concept and the execution and am enjoying it greatly, which is weird because I usually do not like games based on crafting and here it is an extremely important mechanic.

While I am not yet sure it is worthy being in Top 3 Codex 2014 and I am pretty sure Codexers mostly voted on it to spite Brian Fargo, especially seeing how fast NEO Scavenger went off the radar here (the thread was buried on the 4th page of GRPG :roll:), it is definitely a good game. I am yet to achieve something in it, but my current 3rd attempt is going reasonably well after being killed by a feral dog and some kind of wraith before.

*I even installed PoE, but it runs like crap (although I am surprised it works at all)
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
You can't really discuss the best/OFFICIAL CODEX TOP THREE worthy parts of the game without heavily spoiling it.
 

SausageInYourFace

Angelic Reinforcement
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In your face
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especially seeing how fast NEO Scavenger went off the radar here (the thread was buried on the 4th page of GRPG :roll:), it is definitely a good game

Only speaking for myself here obviously, but I bought the game due to the stories in this thread and while I really enjoyed my time with it I got reluctant to fire it up again after a few plays mainly due some issues with the crafting system. Eventually you get to a point where you repeat the same actions over and over and over, the with the same clicks and mouse movements and no thought process and it just gets old a little too quickly. Everytime I think about firing it up again this vision of the crafting screen flashes in my mind and I think of the tediousness of camping and all the clicks necessary for creating the campfire, making a tent, boiling water, yadda yadda, packing all that shit up again, and then play for a while until you gotta do the same shit over and over and over again.. I am sorry, but I just think 'Nope' and play something else.

While I still think it is a great game with a great concept and a great atmosphere, I think it gets a little tedious and repetitive after a while, and since I remember people complaining about similar stuff (eg. campfires) a few pages back I suspect this has something to do with why this thread sort of died after most people played a bunch of games. Its a great game for a short while but play it for too long and some of the rough edges start grating on you. Its still good for a few playthroughs every now and again probably and I will give it another shot when I feel like it.

Disclaimer: I am aware of the auto-crafting through known reciepts. It does not really change a lot though (even though it somewhat mitigates some problems).

Edit: Come to think of it is not only the crafting system but basically all major actions (eg. breaking into houses) involve a lot of repetition so that you start playing on autopilot after a while, there just isnt a whole lot of gameplay variety.
 
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Tzaero

DEPARTED
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Dec 29, 2011
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The Land of Murdock and Goldman Sachs
Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Last year had some pretty decent shots at survival gameplay, this, Dead State and This War is Mine.
Though NS was the best of the three it would be in any dev's interest to look at them all.
 
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Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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Jan 27, 2010
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In quarantine
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especially seeing how fast NEO Scavenger went off the radar here (the thread was buried on the 4th page of GRPG :roll:)

Codexers tend to discuss high profile releases the most. That may be amusing and ironic in its own way, but that doesn't really reflect the Codex's assessment of a game's quality.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
MicoSelva

Another thing is that the people who played Neoscavenger really loved it, but not that many did. Just because lots of people didn't play it (and thus are unable to discuss it) doesn't mean it's not good.
 

dcfedor

Blue Bottle Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
It'll be interesting to see if I can solve some of the UI tediousness in future games. A sequel is definitely on my "to do" list. And though I've learned a lot from feedback (both pre- and post-launch), some problems remain unsolved.

Are there any examples of a crafting UI out there that would solve this tediousness? Especially if they still allow for the property-based recipes, rather than rote recipes.

The "cursor modes" feature was something I added to help with this, since many of the complaints were about extra clicks and mousing to pick-up and put down. The 1, 2, 3, and spacebar hotkeys can reduce this quite a bit. (Alternately, double-click and context menu support.)

But there's still nonoptimal button placement on some screens. Anything out there worth mining for optimization?
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
It'll be interesting to see if I can solve some of the UI tediousness in future games. A sequel is definitely on my "to do" list. And though I've learned a lot from feedback (both pre- and post-launch), some problems remain unsolved.

Are there any examples of a crafting UI out there that would solve this tediousness? Especially if they still allow for the property-based recipes, rather than rote recipes.

The "cursor modes" feature was something I added to help with this, since many of the complaints were about extra clicks and mousing to pick-up and put down. The 1, 2, 3, and spacebar hotkeys can reduce this quite a bit. (Alternately, double-click and context menu support.)

But there's still nonoptimal button placement on some screens. Anything out there worth mining for optimization?

Don't listen idiots. Crafting in this game needs to be tedious. You can already put several different parts and make things one after another.
Imo crafting should be cumberstone. IF you make it quick list them people won't be "crafting" they will be choosing from list what things they want.


Same for example with ammunition. I love that i need to put every single bullet into clip manually.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
^ A central game mechanic should be tedious and cumbersome, hear hear. :roll:

So maybe he should create list based crafting system and remove completely grid system inventory also why cumberstone combat model when you can just autoresolve battle pressing A.

All in name of ease of use.

Do you know why RE4 suitcase system is so fun ? Because it isn't easy to use and you need to fuck around with space and stuff to save space. It is part of gameplay.
 

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
^ A central game mechanic should be tedious and cumbersome, hear hear. :roll:

So maybe he should create list based crafting system and remove completely grid system inventory also why cumberstone combat model when you can just autoresolve battle pressing A.

All in name of ease of use.

Do you know why RE4 suitcase system is so fun ? Because it isn't easy to use and you need to fuck around with space and stuff to save space. It is part of gameplay.
No, it's because mixing and matching shapes evokes the feeling of playing one of the most addictive games ever made - Tetris.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
^ A central game mechanic should be tedious and cumbersome, hear hear. :roll:

So maybe he should create list based crafting system and remove completely grid system inventory also why cumberstone combat model when you can just autoresolve battle pressing A.

All in name of ease of use.

Do you know why RE4 suitcase system is so fun ? Because it isn't easy to use and you need to fuck around with space and stuff to save space. It is part of gameplay.
No, it's because mixing and matching shapes evokes the feeling of playing one of the most addictive games ever made - Tetris.

It takes you into childhood when you mixed and matched shapes
 

SausageInYourFace

Angelic Reinforcement
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In your face
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^ A central game mechanic should be tedious and cumbersome, hear hear. :roll:

So maybe he should create list based crafting system and remove completely grid system inventory also why cumberstone combat model when you can just autoresolve battle pressing A.

What a strawman, I didn't argue any of this. In fact, I didn't suggest any kind of solution for the apparently common complaint I expressed, because frankly, I can't think of one from the top of my head that maintains depth while mitigating its tediousness. Doesn't make the complaint less valid though. A complaint that you apparently agree with, only with the difference that tediousness and cumbersomeness seems to be some kind of desireable gameplay feature in your point of view, sort of like a simulationist approach to scavenging and survival, so that form mirrors content, eh?

I didn't say shit about the combat, I think the combat in NS is great and pretty intense.

Do you know why RE4 suitcase system is so fun ? Because it isn't easy to use and you need to fuck around with space and stuff to save space. It is part of gameplay.

I didn't exactly complain about the inventory system either.

All in name of ease of use.

But it could use some ease of use.

Just think about how much time you spend mechanically repeating very basic tasks over and over again that involve lots of clicking and drag&drawing but absolutely no thought or even the slightest attentiveness.
 

dcfedor

Blue Bottle Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
I think there are some tedious tasks which are also fun, though taste definitely plays a role. Driving a manual transmission car, for example, lights some people's fires while it annoys others.

The tricky part will be identifying what is tedious without any potential for fun (if extant). From what I can tell, SausageInYourFace's issue arises when they're assembling the same camp items each night, then disassembling each morning. E.g. campfire, tent, noise traps, boiling water

I can sympathize with that. In fact, I probably skip whole portions of that routine out of convenience. (Or risk leaving a campsite behind to come back to.)

I think I'd almost be inclined to approach the problem with time-saving in-game items more than a UI change. Setting-up and striking camp is tedious, and that's why some folks developed specialized camping equipment. Maybe the next game needs an elite tier of survival gear that makes shelter, defense, and water purification easier?

Or maybe there needs to be a way to setup camp where they can safely leave it unattended? Better traps? Camouflage?

I kinda like that approach, as the new gear is an intrinsic game reward: it makes the player's life easier. And there could also be trade-offs. E.g. less effective, limited number of uses, fragile, etc.
 

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