Need Help with Game Design Decision

[Wayward Son]

So, I was coming up with ideas for a RPG, and I am stuck deciding on a way to present the world.

• 2D Top-Down à la Wasteland and Ultima
• Pseudo-3D FPP à la Wizardry and Might and Magic
• Both (really difficult to implement and pull off, esp. for a person with my level of experience) à la Gold Box

I want to have a skill-based system where exploration of the environment is a major aspect of the game and dungeon-crawling is intimidating. The reason I'm stuck is that I feel Wasteland-esque perspective lends itself to skill-based interactions with the world, but FPP lends itself to the latter what with only being able to see what's right near you. Poll is optional.

 

[V_K]

Remember that Dragon Wars had the same kind of skill-based interactions as Wasteland but in FPP and it worked perfectly.
The real question is, however, your skill as a programmer and artist and whether you want to go commersial or freeware. Top-down is much easier to pull off but much harder to sell.

 

[Wayward Son]

Remember that Dragon Wars had the same kind of skill-based interactions as Wasteland but in FPP and it worked perfectly.
The real question is, however, your skill as a programmer and artist and whether you want to go commersial or freeware. Top-down is much easier to pull off but much harder to sell.

That was actually my reason for considering top-down in the first place. Commercial success isn't really a must for this, as I am going for an obviously niche market anyway.

 

[Bésame Mucho]

Then do what you like ffs.

 

[DraQ]

The reason I'm stuck is that I feel Wasteland-esque perspective lends itself to skill-based interactions with the world

Why would you think so?

If you want exploration, you probably need FPP.
Whether solo or party-based depends on how do you want the game to play.

 

[Wayward Son]

The reason I'm stuck is that I feel Wasteland-esque perspective lends itself to skill-based interactions with the world

Why would you think so?

If you want exploration, you probably need FPP.
Whether solo or party-based depends on how do you want the game to play.

I don't know why, but all of the examples of the best skill-based interaction that I've played were top-down or isometric.

 

[DraQ]

The reason I'm stuck is that I feel Wasteland-esque perspective lends itself to skill-based interactions with the world

Why would you think so?

If you want exploration, you probably need FPP.
Whether solo or party-based depends on how do you want the game to play.

I don't know why, but all of the examples of the best skill-based interaction that I've played were top-down or isometric.

That's cargo cult thinking.

Which aspects of them rely on top-down/isometric view to work?

 

[gaussgunner]

Topdown, if you have any doubt about your ability to finish a FPP game. You could always switch to FPP later. I'd be more likely to play it if it's topdown, myself.

Danger around every corner is the key to intimidation, regardless of perspective.

I think you could forego party-based if exploration (not tactics) is the focus. No need to check every feature box - party based, crafting, multiplayer, realtime, turnbased, permadeath, elves, orcs, trannies, etc. I respect minimalism.

 

[Wayward Son]

For thematic reasons, there are no (playable, necessarily, haven't decided on NPCs) elves or orcs and definitely no trannies, multi, crafting or RT gameplay.

 

[V_K]

Party-based might be easier to design actually. If you only have one PC and a wide variety of skills, you need to provide several alternatives for each critical skillcheck, so that any reasonable build could beat the game. With a party you can rest assured that between the party members at least half of the skills would be covered, so you can get away with fewer alternative solutions. Or even a "failed a skillcheck? fight a battle" approach, which would punish non-combat builds in a single-character game.

 

[mutonizer]

Since you supposedly want to go skill base and RPG, then just abstract 100% of the exploration into a strategic layer (ala football manager or something) and go turn base tactical mixing EoB (square based) and Arma3 (full 3D visualization with head turning, etc)style 1st person for fights, combined with skill based dependent representations (ie: you only see what your character's Perception check allows you to see, etc).

 

[CryptRat]

Just go with top-down if it's what you were going to do, it'll work. Unless you're a very good drawer and want to draw a lot, in which case an Elvira/Shadowgate (whatever version)/Shannara view is very good but that's another workload.

 

[Wayward Son]

Unless you're a very good drawer

Haha not true in the slightest.

 

[gaussgunner]

You could do minimal wireframe FPP like Wiz1...

 

[Wayward Son]

You could do minimal wireframe FPP like Wiz1...

That or MM1-2 type FPP were my plans for FPP.

 

[Alchemist]

You need to ask yourself: what is the version you want to play? Top-down will be easier no doubt, but if that's not the experience you enjoy, the game design will suffer, you'll lose momentum in the project, and maybe abandon it at some point. Since you said this isn't intended to be commercial, you should go after whatever you enjoy most.

And FPP can be low-fi, no need to go for high-end graphics. If the gameplay is good it doesn't matter what it looks like. In some ways, primitive Wizardry 1 style wireframes are better because your imagination fills in the blanks.

I want to have a skill-based system where exploration of the environment is a major aspect of the game and dungeon-crawling is intimidating.

There's no reason at all that you can't implement that in FPP. I intend to do something similar with my game, which is FPP. Personally, I think FPP captures the feel of getting lost in a dangerous dungeon better than the top-down approach, which always feels a bit removed.

 

[Wayward Son]

I'm leaning more toward top down, but right before I start, I'm planning on playing fuckton a of both Wasteland and MM1 to finalize my decision.

 

[MRY]

Because of the much lower level-of-detail in top-down perspectives, I think they lend themselves better to low-budget skill-based systems. It's easier to abstract, say, repairing a broken computer with a 12x12 pixel computer than with a big one in the middle of a first-person screen.

That said, I would really consider undertaking something other than an RPG as your first project. There are very few people capable of finishing such a thing. At least a half dozen people worked strenuously on Wasteland. Tools have made things somewhat easier today, but ultimately it's pretty tough. You might want to consider trying some existing engine, like IceBlink or FRUA or Blades of Exile, and testing your ability to see such a project through to the end. Or, rather than playing Wasteland and MMI, maybe play, like, Yendorian Tales or some of the old small-team RPGs of that era to get a better sense of what is feasible. Not trying to be discouraging -- ultimately even a failed project is a good learning experience -- but the "I want to make a game but have no idea what even the basic framework will be" set off some alarm bells for me.

 

[xxxCatholicKillahxxx]

Fixed-angle third person perspective. Pocket monster combat as an example.

 

[DraQ]

It's easier to abstract, say, repairing a broken computer with a 12x12 pixel computer than with a big one in the middle of a first-person screen.

I don't see how one follows from another.

 

[MRY]

It's easier to abstract, say, repairing a broken computer with a 12x12 pixel computer than with a big one in the middle of a first-person screen.

I don't see how one follows from another.

While I guess a fair number of early blobbers had text about what was in front of you with no attendant graphics at all, I think that would be very odd to players today. I think skill-based RPGs work best when you can see, at least in stylized form, the things on which you could use your skills (ideally from a distance), but that may be a product of growing up on Wasteland rather than any skill-based FP RPG. If you are using graphics, it is easier to show a small map icon of interactables than depicting them for a full-screen 3D game. Things like the howitzer-shooting segment of Wasteland or dancing on a table would be much more difficult to depict in a way that players can grasp.