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Necessary technical prep for New Vegas

Blaine

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I feel as though when I've used Coyote Tobacco it can make the difference between seeing or not seeing an enemy otherwise on the verge of PE's range. ED-E certainly can sense enemies from so far away that it can almost be a detriment at times, and I can see enemies when they're just a millimeter tall perceptually, so I'm not sure what you mean by the "viewdistance limit" interfering with PE. Then again, I've extensively modified my .inis to increase actor fadeout limits, relax LOD restrictions, and generally improve view/draw distances of all sorts... though I started my current game with uGridsToLoad=5, so I'm stuck with it unfortunately.

It should be easy to test. Dismiss ED-E, find a stationary hostile turret (such as the invisible turret at HELIOS One), move just barely close enough for it to appear on radar, then apply Mentats and a hat and move further away. Also, bring something else that lowers PE, and see if the blip disappears once PE is lowered. I'll try this at some point.
 

Drax

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I wouldn't mess with ugridstoload, it's nice to increase it but in my experience it causes weirdness, glitches and shit. Still, I never lost a save because of it but I rather not play with fire.
 

Blaine

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I wouldn't mess with ugridstoload, it's nice to increase it but in my experience it causes weirdness, glitches and shit. Still, I never lost a save because of it but I rather not play with fire.

Supposedly it's fine if you change it before starting a new game, but I'm about 3/4 of the way through New Vegas and the DLCs now, so that's academic.
 

Drax

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Yeah, but I heard that even then it can fuck up scripts that were supposed to trigger when the cell is loaded, or something like that. I have a latinotato computer so I only made the change to see how it looked. :lol:
 

Blaine

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I really hate the companion quest triggers in New Vegas.

Raul's is the worst: You have to exhaust dialog options with three specific individuals, and ONLY those exact individuals, while he's in your party. Ranger Andy however is located in Novac, where the player is specifically sent by the main quest very early on in the game to inquire about Benny. It's very likely that a player will exhaust Ranger Andy's dialogue and finish his quest while they're exploring Novac and surrounds.

Raul on the other hand is imprisoned in Black Mountain, behind the nest of deathclaws that effectively seals off that area to novice players unless they do some incredible Sneak pumping, strongly encouraging them to go the intended "horseshoe route" to New Vegas.

How is anyone supposed to know to return to Ranger Andy once they've rescued Raul? Andy is a relatively minor NPC with one relatively minor quest, and on top of that he gives you a perk when the quest is over. This sends a strong signal to the player that their business with that NPC is finished.

There is a clear theme to the triggers (damaged old-timers who still have some bite left in them), but the thing is, there are more than three of those in the game; and a first-time player has no idea how many damaged old-timers remain to be met, even if he makes the subtle connection.
 

Jarpie

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I've been playing New Vegas, trying to finish the game first time...maybe the third time is the charm, but that fucking engine is making it really really hard. I can't express enough how much I fucking hate and loathe gamebryo, some mods makes it a bit more bearable but still, it's so fucking cumbersome piece of shit.
 

Blaine

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What kind of a moron would rate a "Gamebryo sucks" post retadred? The genuinely and literally retarded kind of moron, that's who.

Gamebryo is a janky, clunky, wonky, badly-designed pile of garbage. It runs simply okay with extensive and painstaking .ini tweaking, a script extender, a LAA enabler, an anti-crash exception handler, a mod to de-consolize the UI (as much as is possible), and an incredibly elaborate and thorough bugfix mod, all developed and refined over the course of many years by dedicated and competent fans. Even when frame rate and performance within the engine are technically perfect, the nuts and bolts of it are just awkward and janky, the ackshun combat is terrible, and the physics suck.

Obsidian had to work with it, and were given minimal time to do so. Just because Obsidian had to use Gamebryo for New Vegas doesn't mean it isn't a piece of shit, dragonul09, you utter buffoon. This easily qualifies for an instant Bethestard tag.

Some allowance must be made for the age of the engine now and for the state of computer gaming back in 2010, but it was still utter shit even back in 2008 when Fallout 3 was released, it was shit when Oblivion was released in 2006, and it was pretty bad in Morrowind, although curiously Morrowind seems to suffer the least, for a variety of reasons: The engine was new and they hadn't tried to bloat the engine with fancy features (and years of incompetent tweaks), it was very early days for higher-res 3D and animation and Morrowind actually compared very favorably, and it was designed for PC first, rather than for consoles first as was the case from at least Oblivion onward.

Gamebryo was developed for Morrowind by competent and professional programmers initially, but in all likelihood those initial programmers were laid off or sought more rewarding work elsewhere. Hence, you end up with no-talent hacks and maybe one or two Johnny-come-lately programmers (who didn't create the engine, and have no contact with its creators) doing all of the tweaks and "improvements," and doing so with console hardware in mind. Very common situation in gamedev these days, which is why indie studios almost all license Unity, and AAA developers use their increasingly bloated and shitty old engines for every game.
 
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PorkBarrellGuy

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I'd just like to take a moment to marvel at the fact that I just had a roboscorpion soak 4 .50MG Match shots. I don't know what the fuck they're made of but I want some of that shit.

As for Gamebryo, only fucking Bugthesda would willingly keep using such a steaming pile. Mind, I haven't heard many good things about Unity but at least it's not fucking Gamebryo (or Creation, as they're calling Gamebryo 2.x I guess).

Also, Blaine, I'm definitely noticing some weird shit with aggro in OWB. These fucking lobotomites must be coming from clear across the goddamn crater or some shit, and they just keep coming. I wonder if there's some kind of "omniscience" bug with either the lobotomites or the entire goddamn DLC somehow. I stopped trying to sneak except to cut weapon spread when I was shooting, it does feel pretty pointless in OWB.
 
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PorkBarrellGuy

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Jesus Christ on a pogo stick I am literally WATCHING trauma harnesses and lobotomites traverse great stretches of the Big MT to come to me through my scope. This is absurd. Must be some kind of bug.
 

2house2fly

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I remember reading about whatever weird hack they did in OWB to save memory. It was something like, at all times there are nine hostile invisible AI routines, and on a set schedule they spawn an NPC and possess it to attack you; and they're always aware of you and always hostile, unless you've got Animal Friend and then the nightstalkers leave you alone.

I've followed some info from the first page on this thread which has been useful setting up a nicely modded install. I'm currently tweaking run/sprint values with Project Nevada to see what feels good. There was a post about mods to improve the gunplay which I might give a shot too
 
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I did have similar experiences in the base game, but that was probably due to some enhanced AI perception / reworked stealth mods I've been using. When I entered some buildings, all enemies in the place would home in on me, even if I was sneaking. The worst was Vault 3, the moment I set foot in the place everyone in it started running straight up my guns, even coming from other levels just to join in on the fun, and even friendly prisoners opened their own cages and started attacking me. Fucking ridiculous.
 

dragonul09

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What kind of a moron would rate a "Gamebryo sucks" post retadred? The genuinely and literally retarded kind of moron, that's who.

Gamebryo is a janky, clunky, wonky, badly-designed pile of garbage. It runs simply okay with extensive and painstaking .ini tweaking, a script extender, a LAA enabler, an anti-crash exception handler, a mod to de-consolize the UI (as much as is possible), and an incredibly elaborate and thorough bugfix mod, all developed and refined over the course of many years by dedicated and competent fans. Even when frame rate and performance within the engine are technically perfect, the nuts and bolts of it are just awkward and janky, the ackshun combat is terrible, and the physics suck.

Obsidian had to work with it, and were given minimal time to do so. Just because Obsidian had to use Gamebryo for New Vegas doesn't mean it isn't a piece of shit, dragonul09, you utter buffoon. This easily qualifies for an instant Bethestard tag.

Some allowance must be made for the age of the engine now and for the state of computer gaming back in 2010, but it was still utter shit even back in 2008 when Fallout 3 was released, it was shit when Oblivion was released in 2006, and it was pretty bad in Morrowind, although curiously Morrowind seems to suffer the least, for a variety of reasons: The engine was new and they hadn't tried to bloat the engine with fancy features (and years of incompetent tweaks), it was very early days for higher-res 3D and animation and Morrowind actually compared very favorably, and it was designed for PC first, rather than for consoles first as was the case from at least Oblivion onward.

Gamebryo was developed for Morrowind by competent and professional programmers initially, but in all likelihood those initial programmers were laid off or sought more rewarding work elsewhere. Hence, you end up with no-talent hacks and maybe one or two Johnny-come-lately programmers (who didn't create the engine, and have no contact with its creators) doing all of the tweaks and "improvements," and doing so with console hardware in mind. Very common situation in gamedev these days, which is why indie studios almost all license Unity, and AAA developers use their increasingly bloated and shitty old engines for every game.

You sound like a desperate eunuch, calm down there or you might a pop a vein.
 

Blaine

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Jesus Christ on a pogo stick I am literally WATCHING trauma harnesses and lobotomites traverse great stretches of the Big MT to come to me through my scope. This is absurd. Must be some kind of bug.

Yeah, I mentioned this a couple of times as well while I was going through OWB. It's absolutely not your imagination; they're near-omniscient, even with 100 Sneak, and they're all bullet sponges too even when using min-maxed superweapons with max skills and perks, especially Robo-Scorpions. The Sneak near-uselessness seems to be less a bug and more an ill-advised jury-rigged performance tweak of some kind, as per 2house2fly.

In return you receive ludicrously OP perks (some of which are free) and supplies and skill books, though, so I figure it's a fair trade.

I've followed some info from the first page on this thread which has been useful setting up a nicely modded install. I'm currently tweaking run/sprint values with Project Nevada to see what feels good. There was a post about mods to improve the gunplay which I might give a shot too

I've belatedly edited the first post in this thread so that the first thing people will read is Fairfax's 100% spot-on rundown of purely essential technical mods. That should be more useful than "Blaine's thread that quickly turned into a personal blog about playing New Vegas."
 

Blaine

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I should also note that I'm slowly but steadily gaining (or re-gaining; I've forgotten much) total understanding of each and every .ini setting recognized by the game engine, much more so than any one guide I've ever found while doing my tweaks.

One thing I should be able to contribute at some point is a Codexian New Vegas .ini tweaking guide to end all New Vegas .ini tweaking guides.
 

Trashos

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Decline for the "official thread mod suggestions". I have fought with the YUP people repeatedly, I am in no mood to do so again, but let's just say that I have no respect for their mod. Since I am heavily involved in a thread that suddenly decided to endorse their mod in the OP, I feel obliged to mention this.

Incline for the potential of a comprehensive .ini guide.
 

Blaine

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Decline for the "official thread mod suggestions". I have fought with the YUP people repeatedly, I am in no mood to do so again, but let's just say that I have no respect for their mod. Since I am heavily involved in a thread that suddenly decided to endorse their mod in the OP, I feel obliged to mention this.

Perhaps you should enlighten us? If the YUP makes or omits changes you consider undesirable, what are they, and what are the alternatives? "No bugfix mod" is clearly not viable. I played NV when it was released. It was... bad, technically. Very, very bad.
 

Trashos

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I have had this discussion before, both on the Codex and elsewhere, and it is very tiring with many of them showing up. Hopefully, this time they will just send their leader.

To cut a long story short, I do not consider their team to be of the level desired in order to make decisions on what gets fixed, what cut content (with leftovers in the code) is included, or judge how the game's balance is affected after every fix in order to take measures where appropriate. It is like a comment I read in the KCD thread: It is hard to get rid of mercenaries after the war is over.
 

Blaine

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I have had this discussion before, both on the Codex and elsewhere, and it is very tiring with many of them showing up. Hopefully, this time they will just send their leader.

Welcome to the club vis-à-vis rehashing conversations. That's the Codex experience in a nutshell.

Are you referring to this?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...s-recommended-mods.114486/page-9#post-5384801

Looks to me like your examples were blown out of the water by people who actually looked at the game code and dug into the nuts and bolts of YUP. Evidence trumps conjecture. I don't doubt there's some anecdotal basis for your dissatisfaction, but you're long on claims and short on hard evidence.

Also, I asked you for alternatives, and you provided none. While your tone has been reasonable so far, your approach to this dispute hasn't been.

In any case, everyone should crank up the difficulty no matter what mods they're using... although that creates problems, too. For example, a Legion Assassin suddenly appeared far behind me and one-shotted the named NCR trooper who starts the Techatticup Mine quest as I was about to initiate dialogue, from about a quarter of a mile away.
 

Trashos

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I am not short on evidence, the evidence is in YUP's forum. I don't want to copy/paste here, go there and read it. They keep editing their pages as discussions progress, they 'll drive me crazy.

EDIT: Hi Drax. Where is the rest of the team?
 

Blaine

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Getting into the spirit of things in a safe spot where no one can see me with a drawn weapon. Also, where in the fuck did my character hide that huge hand cannon?

40ea8fae63.png
 

Blaine

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Does anyone know whether the difficulty setting:

1.) reduces final damage dealt to enemies and increases final damage dealt to the player after all other calculations (vs. DT, DR, etc.) have been done

or

2.) reduces initial damage dealt/received before DT et al. are taken into account?

I'd like to bump the difficulty from Hard to Very Hard, but I'm still going to win fights anyway, and I don't want the mechanics of AP/HP/etc. ammo to be fucked up by damage reduction that's applied before those calculations are made.

I'm sure someone will now recommend I just install a difficulty mod, and I might, if that's really the most ideal solution.
 

Fairfax

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YUP only has bugfixes. The same team did make a gameplay tweaks mod, but it's a separate download. The misleading unofficial patch is Mission Mojave, which has a ton of undisclosed balance changes and gameplay tweaks.
 

Trashos

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Does anyone know whether the difficulty setting:

1.) reduces final damage dealt to enemies and increases final damage dealt to the player after all other calculations (vs. DT, DR, etc.) have been done

or

2.) reduces initial damage dealt/received before DT et al. are taken into account?

(1) is correct. Difficulty multiplier is applied at the very last calculation, along with chem multiplier, and *after* DT/DR. Also, it's after weapon condition and skill multipliers.

However, note that I am speaking from memory.

EDIT: Yes, it seems I remembered well, difficulty multiplier is in the last calculation:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_combat
I am in no position to actually test anything right now. But it should be correct.
 
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