My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

[Brancaleone]

Its all wasted because Eora is not an interesting place to visit, or a place were interesting events can easily take place.
Its one of the worst settings ever deviced when you take into account the kind of gameplay it has to accomodate, one really has to wonder what they were thinking when they went with it.

They were thinking about patenting a zero-risk IP in order to license it after a couple of games and get the sweet, sweet cashflow without having to get their hands dirty with pseudo Baldur's Gate successors. At least in their dreams.

 

[Theldaran]

They were thinking about patenting a zero-risk IP in order to license it after a couple of games and get the sweet, sweet cashflow without having to get their hands dirty with pseudo Baldur's Gate successors. At least in their dreams.

This, plus sinking a small percentage of a Baldur's Gate's development hours into it, then marketing it as its rightly successor.

Pillars isn't exactly a vibrant game -and I was a fan of this type of game. Its design is shitty at best, and the setting... I just checked out the possible endings and made a facepalm. Maybe I should stop playing already.

 

[Sannom]

What's face-palm worthy about the endings?

 

[Theldaran]

What's face-palm worthy about the endings?

Most of them only differ in minimal ways. But hey, you gotta provide an option for every god involved, as well as an illusion of fat content. As Josh himself said, adapting well-known Forgotten Realms was one thing, building a vibrant, rich world overnight one completely different... And that includes the gods.

 

[Lord Azlan]

In short, the game's replayability is very, very short. You'll get various small flavor changes, but it will mostly just play the same.

Enchantment & Itemization

Apart from that, there's a serious lack of some types of magical items in the game. PoE overflows with magical cloaks and necklaces (both which use the same slot), but has very, very few magical belts, rings, helmets and hats. Two of my characters finished the game with regular, non-magical (but stylish) feathered hats, simply because there was nothing better for them to wear after 50 hours exploring.

The (lack of) Encounter Design

Considering Obsidian's staff are arguably the most experiences RPG developers in the market, I find this point a huge let down. Even the average cookie-cutter MMO out there know how to throw some curve balls. Hell, just look at what Daedalic did with Blackguards, their first RPG ever! That game had a smaller bestiary and fewer classes & skills, yet had dozens of really memorable battles. Where are those in PoE?

Spells aren't interesting

As with many other things in PoE, I look at this spell and see that there was a spark of creativity, but it was never fully developed.

FINAL THOUGHTS

IMHO, there are two ways to judge Pillars of Eternity.

If you're a casual RPG fan, that heard about the Infinity Engine games, or maybe played them years ago and want something that reminds you of those games but with modern design sensibilities, Pillars of Eternity is everything what you wanted. You'll play through it once, have 40-50 hours of fun, with some interesting moments and not a single "Deep Roads-esque" boring slog.

However, for hardcore fans that replayed the IE games multiple times, that enjoy the depth, replayability and freedom of those games, Pillars is lacking.

But, to me, the most worrisome aspect is the contrast between these two perceptions of the game, because they appear to be almost impossible to reconcile. Reviewers considered PoE a title with "countless strategies" (PC Gamer), full of "interesting puzzles and traps, and surprising encounters" (GameInformer), and even "intensely difficult and tactical" (IGN), but here I am, complaining it's too shallow.

My thoughts

I played Baldur's Gate when it first came it - and I loathed it. Nearly killed my self about 10 hours in. So much that BG2 sat in a box in my bedroom for about 10 years before spring cleaned away.

Then some other games came out that were universally acclaimed by RPG "experts" such as KotR, Dragon Age and The Witcher. Oh, how I hated those games. That engine. That Pause button. Those corridors. Party members with their own back stories and even having the temerity to chat amongst themselves and sometimes DISAGREEING with my actions, me, Lord Azlan.

Don't you know who I am?

Lots of text to read on the screen. BORING. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

When PoE came out, I ignored it. Removed it from my thoughts. I know what I like and what I don't.

I played WL2 and thoroughly loved it. I gave D:OS a try next and liked it so much, but I found something lacking. Lots of potential and interesting ideas -

So I am tossing and turning, worried what my next RPG adventure would be. I played some Batman and Football Manager. Watched a lot of TV.

I need RPG, I need to dream about RPG again.

The first thing I noticed about PoE was the message in the loading screens about people that are colour blind.

Then I found out that when Calisca said she did not feel safe camping in a dangerous cave, she meant it. I started the whole game again and saved her life second time around - you know how that works out.

Overall, I feel that PoE is better than the sum of its part in the same way D:OS wasn't.

I feel the inventory and crafting in D:OS should have been much better, it obviously is, but who ever got round to using it? The inventory system in PoE is a bit confusing - but it works. Pick up lot of loot ala Risen and sell lots of loot. Spend some time trying to figure out if Sabre A+ E+ is better than Club C+ G+.

I did not like that in D:OS you could go around into houses and nick stuff right under the nose of homeowners. I tried that in Raedric's hold and ended up killing Nedmar as he did not listen to my "D:OS allowed it" complaint.

Combat was a bit simple and straightforward until I came across Raedric. The pause button became pretty important. Positioning my mage also became important. Food also.

Storytelling. Oh how my 20 year old self would kick my arse now. I find the storytelling in this RPG fascinating and compelling. Yep, I use the word "storytelling" in relation to a RPG.

Children being born without souls.

I agree with everything felipepepe has said in the OP, but want to end with a Matrix quote "Pillars of Eternity has made a believer of me"

 

[Hegel]

 

[Lurker King]

Anyone thinks a polished masterpiece can be done overnight?.

Tim Cain made the Fallout engine in his spare time and Fallout 2 was done in 18 months, but with many bugs. The difference is that when they were at Black Isle Studios* they were inspired in designing games and truly interested in pushing the boundaries of cRPGs. They made games they wanted to play, and now they made a game that propose to represent different IE games and popamolized system to cater to a wider audience, because they don't give a shit anymore. Is just work, business. They made products to sell. If this type of bland and insipd product is gonna sell, that is what they are gonna do.

* Although, I think that just Tim Cain and Avellone also worked at Black Isle.

 

[Xeon]

I think Josh also worked at Black Isle, he was part of IWD1 and then lead the team for IWD2.

 

[Rostere]

The difference is that when they were at Black Isle Studios* they were inspired in designing games and truly interested in pushing the boundaries of cRPGs. They made games they wanted to play

It's from before they were called Black Isle, but still... Also, Feargus.

 

[Duraframe300]

It's from before they were called Black Isle, but still... Also, Feargus.

Chris Avellone's first masterpiece.

 

[Theldaran]

The first thing I noticed about PoE was the message in the loading screens about people that are colour blind.

...They actually spent time on this. You know a game is done with mass appeal in mind when you get something like this. I actually think that daltonic people won't give a shit about their game. And then some non-daltonics.

 

[Xeon]

Tim Cain is color blind, since its their game, I think he just wanted to add that as an option to for himself and others like him to enjoy it more.

 

[roshan]

I'm not sure that this is something that takes a lot of time to implement, LOX has a colour blind mode too, and it's an indie game.

 

[Roguey]

Hating on accessibility options that detract nothing from your experience is extremely selfish.

 

[Theldaran]

I'm not hating it, it's just a curiosity. And no, it shouldn't take a lot of time, maybe an afternoon of work, but it's still curious that they did it. I'm betting the money on Xeon's explanation rather than a desire by Obsidian to innovate and approach a wider audience (what I said about "mass appeal" was plain sarcasm).

 

[FreeKaner]

I feel like people are comparing PoE to an idealized version of BG2 that they have created with fondest of their memories. All the shortcomings of PoE (Which there are a lot actually but game does what it does good enough to still be enjoyable) are given a lot of critique and its strong sides being compared to strongest side of whatever came before it (writing to PS:T, encounter design to BG2) meanwhile all of BG2's short comings are ignored and all of its strong points emphasized a great deal.

BG2 starts with the antagonist telling you that you have much untapped power and if you are even aware of your true potential, the setting is the blandest high fantasy, you couldn't get more cliché than that even if you tried. Meanwhile PoE tries to deal with real world problems in a high fantasy setting, which sometimes works sometimes doesn't but is still more inspired than BG2's setting, yet everyone criticizes PoE's "chosen one" and "genericness" yet BG2 doesn't get any of that.

Overall for PoE, if there is something in the game, it is good, the problem is there isn't much in it in terms of content, it feels like by the time they were done with the engine, the mechanics and the setting, they didn't have much funds and time left to fill out the rest of it. It is built upon a solid structure (especially the setting, but I am biased because I like early modern period way more than medieval but it is not used much), it seems though they won't expand much on it in this game, they might do it in the next one and if they will, I am expecting a memorable experience.

Also PoE is not very wordy in terms of dialogue, I don't see why people keep bringing that up, it just has long descriptions here and there, which is not part of the dialogue.

 

[Sensuki]

Just because the story in Baldur's Gate 2 is not original or complex there's no denying it was well done and well executed.

I don't believe one can argue that the Pillars of Eternity setting isn't bland high fantasy either, because it is. I also don't really don't care what something tries to do, I care whether it was done well or not.

The game actually has a lot of content, what makes you say that there isn't much of it ?

IMO, it does not matter why a ghoul is a ghoul. It's still a ghoul. The only people that information will impress is lore and setting fags. I also think that them going out of their way to try and justify the existence of every creature or person in an area was a detrimental thing to the content.

One does not ask "Why is there a vampire, a lich and a Beholder in this encounter?" in BG2, because one does not care. The most important thing is that the encounter is cool/fun.

 

[FreeKaner]

Just because the story in Baldur's Gate 2 is not original or complex there's no denying it was well done and well executed.

Well executed bland is still bland.

I don't believe one can argue that the Pillars of Eternity setting isn't bland high fantasy either, because it is.

How it is bland? Its time period is one that is not used much in high fantasy or in games that aren't strategy, really. They have an interesting take on religion and "science" (animancy), they have interesting takes on vestigial empires, they have an interesting take on the whole traditionalism versus progressive aspect with the Gaen whatever they are in the east and the ruins they protect. It is a fresh setting yet Vailians and Aedyr both seems well developed and thought out, as well as things like gunpowder, trade between empires, piracy and monsters related to these are mentioned.

Shame we seem to play in the most boring part of all this setting but again what's going on in where we are is interesting too, it is very down to earth, childbirth but also very fantastic at the same time, with very believable aims and goals of the "villian" and the whole gods thing. Personally there are also quirks I like, be it the different currencies explained with fleshed out backgrounds and names, as well as firearms related to magic. There are a lot of things in itself about the early modern period I personally like, which I mentioned I might be biased but I still think it is far from bland.

I also don't really don't care what something tries to do, I care whether it was done well or not.

That's true but the possibilities opened with a good setting that its content doesn't necessarily live up to is something they can fix, after all BG1 set the tone and BG2 executed it.

The game actually has a lot of content, what makes you say that there isn't much of it ?

I only played it in its vanilla stage, didn't touch the expansion yet so I am not sure how much it does, but even with the bounty hunts, there just didn't seem like there is a lot of content to me, maybe because there is a lack of parity between exposition and interaction.

Also honestly, you are a bit too jaded, cynical and burnout from all the beta-testing you have done before the game was even released, I think few will be on the same page with you in terms of views on the game. Even the most interesting setting will be bland if you are neutralized to it. Which is actually something MMOs suffer, but that's an entirely other topic.

 

[Ninjerk]

Kind of tough to make a case for a game not being bland when you use the word "interesting" every other list item. Might as well call it a "nice" game with "nice" mechanics made by "nice" people working for a "nice" developer in a "nice" city in California.

 

[FreeKaner]

Kind of tough to make a case for a game not being bland when you use the word "interesting" every other list item. Might as well call it a "nice" game with "nice" mechanics made by "nice" people working for a "nice" developer in a "nice" city in California.

I would elaborate if I was talking to a person that have not played the game yet but I decided to just list what I found interesting because he already played and knows all the content, developed his own opinion and will not change it because I detail why I find Vailian Republics interesting in relation to Italian states as well as Spanish Empire of real world history for example.

 

[Ninjerk]

Why talk about the game at all if you're operating from this kind of fatalistic viewpoint?

 

[FreeKaner]

Why talk about the game at all if you're operating from this kind of fatalistic viewpoint?

I have my own reasons for finding it interesting, if anyone finds it bland I cannot argue that, especially considering not everyone has the same interest in the period as I do. I just wanted to say that I do not find it to be universally bland or generic, because it has unique elements not found in other games of the same genre, unlike the thousand other medieval high fantasy settings with same pursuit of power/world-domination/influence villains.

My initial post was referring to comparison between BG2 and PoE in OP's post and some subsequent posts.

 

[Somberlain]

meanwhile all of BG2's short comings are ignored and all of its strong points emphasized a great deal.

everyone criticizes PoE's "chosen one" and "genericness" yet BG2 doesn't get any of that.

Have you not been paying any attention? BG2 is often criticized for the following:

-inclusion of romances
-mediocre-to-bad writing
-lack of exploration when compared to BG1, for example
-excessive high level loot
-too few quests with non-combat solutions
-very few stat checks in the entire game
-some strongholds, like thief stronghold, have almost no quest content
-clusterfucky combat - what can change the nature of RTwP?
-differences to PnP that occasionally don't make any sense

BG2 starts with the antagonist telling you that you have much untapped power and if you are even aware of your true potential, the setting is the blandest high fantasy, you couldn't get more cliché than that even if you tried.

IMO, having some divine powers because you are one of the countless products of a dead god's plan to resurrect himself is noticeably less cliched than a lot of RPG plots where you simply are badass who has generic unsourced untapped potential because you are the hero who needs to save the world.

I'm not saying that it's particularly original, just that your "you couldn't get more cliché than that even if you tried" statement is really hyperbolic.

 

[FreeKaner]

I'm not saying that it's particularly original, just that your "you couldn't get more cliché than that even if you tried" statement is really hyperbolic.

Well it was an exaggeration in the first place, if you tried, you could get really generic. Like what DA:O did, for example, I bet they were really trying.

 

[Sensuki]

Well executed bland is still bland.

There is a difference between bland, unoriginal and simplistic. Bland =/= either of those. I liked both the stories for BG1 and BG2, I liked both the villains and I wanted to hunt them down and fuck them up.

I didn't really give much of a shit about the Pillars story and most definitely not the part that involves the player. The antagonist also sucked, bigtime.

How it is bland? Its time period is one that is not used much in high fantasy or in games that aren't strategy, really. They have an interesting take on religion and "science" (animancy), they have interesting takes on vestigial empires, they have an interesting take on the whole traditionalism versus progressive aspect with the Gaen whatever they are in the east and the ruins they protect. It is a fresh setting yet Vailians and Aedyr both seems well developed and thought out, as well as things like gunpowder, trade between empires, piracy and monsters related to these are mentioned.

Shame we seem to play in the most boring part of all this setting but again what's going on in where we are is interesting too, it is very down to earth, childbirth but also very fantastic at the same time, with very believable aims and goals of the "villian" and the whole gods thing. Personally there are also quirks I like, be it the different currencies explained with fleshed out backgrounds and names, as well as firearms related to magic. There are a lot of things in itself about the early modern period I personally like, which I mentioned I might be biased but I still think it is far from bland.

Setting/lorefag detected.

I really do not care what the concepts are outside of the game. Apparently the Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age have pretty good lore too. In Forgotten Realms there are lots of cultures that are cool (Halruaa, for instance), and just like in Pillars of Eternity you only get a very brief glimpse of what people from those cultures are like in the game.

I agree about the second bit where the Dyrwood seems like the most boring place to be, and one could say exactly the same thing about Baldur's Gate 1 or 2. What's more important though is the content and BG2 had great content especially.

Regarding being set in a time a bit further on from medieval, mechanically I actually found this a bit shit regarding how the inclusion of firearms impacted the ranged combat gameplay. Subject to implementation and balance of course, but I don't think both the use of bows and guns together is very good. It works in a game like Battle Realms where the gun is simply part of the unit concept, but in an RPG where anyone can use any item and there are no proficiencies ? I just think it makes the use of bows (and crossbows) fairly obsolete unless you have a real specific super specialized build for it.

That's true but the possibilities opened with a good setting that its content doesn't necessarily live up to is something they can fix, after all BG1 set the tone and BG2 executed it.

I also found the BG1 story and plot to be tighter than Pillars of Eternity, and I did not find there to be an issue with player motivation, or reinforcement of why the PC is following the story.

Also honestly, you are a bit too jaded, cynical and burnout from all the beta-testing you have done before the game was even released, I think few will be on the same page with you in terms of views on the game. Even the most interesting setting will be bland if you are neutralized to it. Which is actually something MMOs suffer, but that's an entirely other topic.

I am not a setting/lore fag like you. I also don't really care too much about C&C, or larp style roleplaying. I do not fap over deep character systems. I care about actual gameplay - the things the player does in the game. It is not about me being burned out, different people look for different things in games and Pillars hits the right notes for some of the different crowds.