Murderous Psychopaths Needed!

[IHaveHugeNick]

One thing tho: there is more than enough SP for a pure fighter to max out crafting and alchemy. So these advantages aren't "hybrid only". Bear in mind that IG path has craft training, reinforcing the idea that crafting is the go-to warrior skill after axe and dodge.

Yeah, and you can also get Alchemy from AG playthrough, then jump to IG for crafting.

 

[GuiltyofBeingTrite]

Tali would like to enter the ring, 3v1 naked victory.

Dodge Pride World Wide:

 

[Eyestabber]

Yeah, and you can also get Alchemy from AG playthrough, then jump to IG for crafting.

Does that allow you to get the centurion training too?

 

[axedice]

Is it possible to do the starting quests of diffrent factions for moar SP rewards and training? I haven't been able to change sides unless it was a specific quest plot.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Damn, look at you lot with all your fancy builds, all I ever do is sledgehammer+dodge.

Worked beautifully all the time though.

 

[Eyestabber]

I started a new playtrough with the sole objective of murdering all 3 lords + agatoth. Now that I have better understanding of combat, I noticed how dispatching blockers is a lot easier than dodgers. Especially blockers with no helmet, those are the easiest. I really think blocking an attack should remove the "benefits" of aimed attacks. Aimed: head is the bane of blockers right now (yet another reason why dodge is superior in every way ).

 

[Shadenuat]

: Halt! Who goes?... wait... is that Bazuso?!

Spoiler

: The Grey Knight Bazuso? Also known as the killer of one hundred fifty two men?

: As long as I stand here none shall pass!

: Uh, sorry sir, but that's actually you who is trying to pass...--

: ..........

: WOOOOOO!!

: I see you've got some balls imps! Well you gonna regret it, when I chop your balls off with my axe!

: Are all your men cowards?! That's pathetic!

Small hint on archer AI - when they don't want to move forward and shoot because they think they're smart to make you do first move, they might not know you actually have HP regeneration. So skip turn or maybe 25 turns. Or 50.

The build is cookie cutter:

Spoiler

Obligatory after XYZ deaths:

Spoiler

Agath tactic was basically praying on RNG (no quest-helpers like canister):
- Reload until I can block his 1st attack.
- Step left, bolas to the head. Drink +4 ap potion. Step forward.
- Now as I'm against rails if he knock downs me I won't lose AP trying to run and catch up with him.
- Hit him in the head, prey for good crits.
- Hit with fast attacks when bolas ends, prey for hits and blocking some of his attacks.
Replay XYZ times until you win.

I think people miss some fun making their fighters Imperial Guards, imo Praetor can get into 2 fights that easily defeat any IG fight in the game in terms of challenge - the 1 vs 3 against Carrinas if you fail negotiations, and the one above.

So, I've decided to try and run cookie cutter "tank" build with as less AP as I think is possible (8 AP for 2 fast attacks with axe) and maxed CON&STR, and no PWA.

Advantages that I found:
- Actually decent in very long fights with many archers like Pass fight. But you must have regeneration from Monastery. Just spin2win, since Whirlwind doesn't care for AP, as long as you have at least 7. And high quality axes with high STR don't care for armor either.
- Left-clicks through 90% of other fights, provided good equipment (8+ Crafting, I bought unique armor in Maadoran to smith it into Imperial Armor). But so does any other combat build.
- Heaviest armor almost allows to stand toe-to-toe with Zameddi demon and shrug off his gladius/dagger strikes (pray you don't get shitton of bleeding stacks tho).

Disadvantages:
- Terrible in first 1-2 fights. For Praetor it's 1st fight, since after it you get full suit of heavy iron armor.
- Bad against actual strong single enemies due to low AP. I had to use fastest axe to do bolas + aim attacks.
- Probably worst build against Agath. Why did I even try Critical Strike again, bah. Should have stacked on +AP potions with 8+ Alchemy instead.
- Meteorite armor sucks, especially Imperial Armor. The DR bonus is just too small compared to Blue Steel. And I still couldn't scrap enough to also make the heaviest helmet.
- Getting crits that completely negate your shield&armor sucks.
- No counter attacks drags some battles for sooo loooong.
- Having high HP doesn't provide bigger advantage than having high AP in 99% of fights in the game.

Extra funny screenshot from one of the previous games in same Pass fight:

Spoiler

 

[Tigranes]

I started a new playtrough with the sole objective of murdering all 3 lords + agatoth. Now that I have better understanding of combat, I noticed how dispatching blockers is a lot easier than dodgers. Especially blockers with no helmet, those are the easiest. I really think blocking an attack should remove the "benefits" of aimed attacks. Aimed: head is the bane of blockers right now (yet another reason why dodge is superior in every way ).

Yeah, currently Aimed goes through if you do any damage, block or not, but it would be interesting if blocking ruled out any special effect. Currently, 50% THC means green light to go ahead and Aimed:Head, whereas 50% THC against a dodger means no.

 

[Tigranes]

Basically beat the game with ~50 SP spare, so knocked up Dodge to 10 for kicks. Steamrolled almost every fight as Dagger/dodge. Would probably go in equipped with Zamedi meteor dagger & the Arbitrator, fire vials and nets, and Al-Sahir's armour & helmet. The critfest means sometimes fights were over in basically 1 kill per turn. Killed Zamedi demon, Al-Sahir, Widowmaker, Agathoth.

 

[hivemind]

I wonder if alchemy ~6 is basically a requirement for unweakened Agathoth

 

[Tigranes]

I got it specifically for Eagle-Eye. 4 Alchemy and 7 Dodge was enough for everybody else.

 

[hivemind]

7 dodge for unweakened ?
Did you fight him face to face or bomb him with that?

 

[Tigranes]

I mean 4 Alch 7 Dodge was enough for everybody, and then I spent the SP before Agathoth just because.

(Even to just bomb him, 7 Dodge is too low - even his ranged & psionic attacks will be enough to kill you in 2 turns.)

Agathoth is a little bit bullshit IMO, just because he plays by so many different rules. But it's fun to have a challenge. Currently experimenting to see whether going 10 Dag / 7 Dodge instead is a viable strategy to try and actually avoid using fire vials, but I really think 7 Dodge and you won't live for more than 2 turns at best (why don't aimed shots & nets work?), and even with 19 AP that's not enough.

 

[Goral]

(...) why don't aimed shots & nets work? (...)

This. It could work for 1 turn only but IMO it should work. Yeah, it will be easier that way but then again fire spamming is allowed and is way easier than fighting him 1 vs 1 with nets aid.

 

[Tigranes]

You'd think a better anti-cheese mechanism for the Big Bad is to... make him immune, or highly resistant to, fire.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Aimed shots don't work on Agatoth? Since when?

I wonder if alchemy ~6 is basically a requirement for unweakened Agathoth

Definitely not a requirement as he can be killed without it. You can get Eagle Eye through other means (two on IG path, killing Widowmaker quickly) and one is usually all you need as a combat build, especially as an axe wielder.

 

[Tigranes]

Do they for you? I seem to hit him, do damage, but it says "doing 0 damage to his dodge" or whatnot.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Do they for you? I seem to hit him, do damage, but it says "doing 0 damage to his dodge" or whatnot.

Yes, this is from the last time I killed him:

Spoiler

That's with the newest steam version with all the other updates (expanded Basil, Slums thief ambush, Arena challengers etc.).

It seems either my game or your is bugged but It would make no sense for him to be immune to aimed attack penalties, he's not a construct.

 

[Douchebag]

All those combat build, min maxing at it's finest :D

Is there a single use for more than one weapon specialty and one defence specialty? The game might as well block you from picking more than one because there is not a single objective reason to pick a second one, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tigranes]

Sometimes people mix synergy skills, e.g. 3 in Bow or Crossbow or Throwign is a decent value when you're putting one of them to 6-7, but obviously this thread is all about minmaxing and when you minmax it's 1 skill.

 

[Shadenuat]

One very fun build to run is high AP Daggers+Crossbows with Hand Crossbow and maybe extra Critical Strike. Sadly costs shitton of points but it is really fun because both dagger and hand crossbow are Bag slot items, and hand crossbow costs very little ap to shoot. I also believe you can keep 2 extra hand crossbows in bag slots loaded with bolts ready to shoot.
So you're like asassin with tricks, dagger for melee, loaded crossbows, and consumables.

 

[Western]

I present Gilgamesh, greatest hero and Loremaster of the age, who mastered 3 skills, none of them being lore. Joined the thieves guild early then betrayed them for the chance to work for Gaelius.

This was a pretty successful hybrid character. Absolutely destroyed Agathoth (alchemy 10 is insane, used combinations of eagle eye stimulants and hallucinogenic mushrooms to beat him senseless, leaving the world Godless), beat all arena fighters, the Ordu champion, the daemon in the Zamedi tower (while on Gaelius mission before Ganezzar), and raised Miltiades to his well deserved position of power in Ganezzar.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

All those combat build, min maxing at it's finest :D

Is there a single use for more than one weapon specialty and one defence specialty? The game might as well block you from picking more than one because there is not a single objective reason to pick a second one, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, you get a synergy bonus which can boost your attack rating by up to 30 points, of course that only helps you against Agatoth but still it also allows you you mix things up during combat a bit. Not to mention that since the latest update you're swimming in SPs again so might as well go for a synergy between weapon skills or Critical Strike if you're a combat oriented char.

Beats me why you'd want more than one defense specialty though, see no benefit.

 

[Eyestabber]

Meteorite armor sucks, especially Imperial Armor. The DR bonus is just too small compared to Blue Steel. And I still couldn't scrap enough to also make the heaviest helmet.

You did check Hellgate, right? One of the updates added several boxes near the Sacred Spear with meteorite ingots and 2 new power tubes.

 

[Darth Roxor]

My name is Commander Boreale and I give zero fucks about being late to the party!