Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Murderous Psychopaths Needed!

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,552
Location
Poland
Why do you have 10 block AND 10 dodge?
I've increased my block from 1 to 10 just before the fight. Block+liquid fire spam = insta Aga kill (he can't harm you with anything other than mental attack, his projectiles are blocked). But with a 10 dodge 10 alchemy build I've defeated him even faster (liquid fire +6 AP thanks to quicksilver potion + Horus mode and he's dead in 2 turns). I've also defeated him rather easily with this build: http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...283/8B254B61D6DBBA9549AD06D3A7EEA863E8ACC65A/

These were my stats before the fight: http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...519/59BE575E62304BDE8708BC0EBBABE7B003265F4D/
10 dodge, 10 axe, 3 hammer and everything else at 1-2 (only Lore at 3 to reach Zamedi). With as many SP as I have I can test many combinations against Aga. Since I didn't invest in crafting I've been using Butcher's labrys + The Pendulum of Judgement most of the time (including the fight with Aga). I forgot to buy schematics before the fight, otherwise I would also test 10 dodge, 10 crafting build and create my own version of Mineb. This build tells you how weak other opponents are compared to Aga (my fights are with non-weakened Aga and with no mindshield ability or helm of Destiny). 10 dodge 10 axe build with 10/10/8/4/4/4 can mow through anything easily. Besides Aga I've had most problem with Glabrio and his thugs - they could throw bolas, poison and knock down with crossbow. Zamedi demon was also quite difficult obviously (although both these fights are still easy enough).

Goral(...) I'd really like to know if you reloaded all the IG group fights until you got all/most killing blow ?
Yeah, had to reload quite a few times since your allies are WAY too strong IMO. I've been asking Vince for months to make Antidas fight harder since as it stands now IG can kill Antidas, Dellar and Daratan soldiers almost by themselves. It was tricky to kill them before they were killed by my allies. I had to use whirlwind, swing (it's perfect to kill your own allies and it costs 1 AP less - basically ideal for a build like mine), had to remove my armour to have 12 AP (and it was still often too little because after 1 turn there were often 2 or 3 opponents with "Almost dead" status).

Later I've used bombs/liquid fire to kill those I couldn't reach combined with Pendulum of Judgement+sharpened edge at crafting 2 (which I was trained by the IG in Maadoran Fort) and sometimes feint so I could reach opponent that was outside my range or just be surrounded by as many opponents as possible. The fights became super fun that way since I had to think of tactics I hadn't thought about before and use attacks I hadn't used before. Earlier I was using fast attack + Aimed:head attack 90% of the time (the remaining 10% was arm/legs) and it allowed me to mow through enemies like through butter. If I was playing differently every group fight would end very, very quickly which again shows how easy AoD is for someone who knows the system. For Ordu fight I deliberately didn't train soldiers in melee and dodge, otherwise they would kill Ordu even more easily (there were at least 4 IG spamming projectiles which made this fight tricky - if I had invested in alchemy sooner my body count would be higher).

Wow, kudos. What's the secret? Are there any glitches/exploits involved? Do you kill your allies with whirlwinds?
Yeah, see above.

For a pure melee build dodge is better against Cthulhu (non-weakened one), especially if you're on IG path and get one free Eagle Eye. You just need to avoid his 1st melee attack entirely and Dodge is far more reliable for that, then aim his arms and kill him with fast attacks and counter-attacks.
True. I didn't even have to aim for his arms - head was enough with this build (+Eagle eye potion that Carrinas gave me, using Pendulum of Judgement).
 

Mozg

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
You get the vsRanged/vsCrit advantages from shields just from holding them, even if you're a dodger.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
The Arena is a point after which game becomes a lot easier.
I recently reached Maadoran with my hybrid and somehow had 3500 gold to spare. So I went and bought that sword someone was talking about (Dreamedge?) with +23% THC made of blue steel.

Instantly my PER 4 became an issue only for text quests.

But again, it tells you a lot what Crafting/Modifiers can do with character builds. Not every character would end up with 3500 gold upon arriving to Maadoran. And not every player would be able to instantly go through champ and get helmet&armor that make any problems with THC on items solved while you just began 2/3 or even 2/4 of the game.

It's like doing Enclave run for PWA MK2.

I think it would be more challenging and create a nice gold dumping option if you generally got regular items with few exceptions, but could pay smith to install/level up improvements for you.
 
Last edited:

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
I've increased my block from 1 to 10 just before the fight. Block+liquid fire spam = insta Aga kill (he can't harm you with anything other than mental attack, his projectiles are blocked). But with a 10 dodge 10 alchemy build I've defeated him even faster (liquid fire +6 AP thanks to quicksilver potion + Horus mode and he's dead in 2 turns). I've also defeated him rather easily with this build: http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...283/8B254B61D6DBBA9549AD06D3A7EEA863E8ACC65A/

These were my stats before the fight: http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...519/59BE575E62304BDE8708BC0EBBABE7B003265F4D/
10 dodge, 10 axe, 3 hammer and everything else at 1-2 (only Lore at 3 to reach Zamedi). With as many SP as I have I can test many combinations against Aga. Since I didn't invest in crafting I've been using Butcher's labrys + The Pendulum of Judgement most of the time (including the fight with Aga). I forgot to buy schematics before the fight, otherwise I would also test 10 dodge, 10 crafting build and create my own version of Mineb. This build tells you how weak other opponents are compared to Aga (my fights are with non-weakened Aga and with no mindshield ability or helm of Destiny). 10 dodge 10 axe build with 10/10/8/4/4/4 can mow through anything easily. Besides Aga I've had most problem with Glabrio and his thugs - they could throw bolas, poison and knock down with crossbow. Zamedi demon was also quite difficult obviously (although both these fights are still easy enough).

Yeah, 10/10/8/4/4/4 Axe+Dodge build is AoD's version of an awesome button, even without crafting/alchemy you just mow down through everything without pause and barely (if any) reloads.

If you tried it with version 10 crafting build, you would have mowed him down in 2nd round basically with meteor Mineb and sharpening stone. Same would have happened if you tried your 10 alchemy build in melee, Berserk potion that gives you +50% damage and -5 THC combined with Eagle eye that gives you 6 APs and +25 THC.

Yeah, had to reload quite a few times since your allies are WAY too strong IMO. I've been asking Vince for months to make Antidas fight harder since as it stands now IG can kill Antidas, Dellar and Daratan soldiers almost by themselves. It was tricky to kill them before they were killed by my allies. I had to use whirlwind, swing (it's perfect to kill your own allies and it costs 1 AP less - basically ideal for a build like mine), had to remove my armour to have 12 AP (and it was still often too little because after 1 turn there were often 2 or 3 opponents with "Almost dead" status).

Yup, I'm always a bit perplexed when people say Antidas fight is hard and your allies die quickly, I'd wager you could win that one with using 3-4 nets without ever swinging your weapon. Dellar aside, they're more than a match for rest of the Daratan guards (especially the blondie 2H axe guy).

Yeah, see above.

Was kinda hoping there is some other way than killing your IG bros but judging by your description it definitely seems to add another dimension to the combat gameplay.

True. I didn't even have to aim for his arms - head was enough with this build (+Eagle eye potion that Carrinas gave me, using Pendulum of Judgement).

Sick stats, yeah, his head is a weak spot (no DR).
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Your allies used to die like flies in an earlier beta. The balance was such that if you didnt kill or distract several enies your allies would go on a downward spiral and youd end up alone against half the enemies.
 

hivemind

Guest
I wish we could get the old Teron hard Antidas fight again back again.

Mostly because I never actually managed to beat it in the beta. :negative:
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Your allies used to die like flies in an earlier beta. The balance was such that if you didnt kill or distract several enies your allies would go on a downward spiral and youd end up alone against half the enemies.

Yeah, you could pass INT check (6 I think) to get better allies though IIRC. Still that was few years ago, last time I played it before release (in early-mid 2014) it was already an easier version of the fight.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
While playing hybrids and trying different armors, I found and interesting thing about AI that can make DEF more viable than DR. Maybe not on all levels of play, but sometimes. Yeah another rock from me into heavy armor.
I was fighting the first group of Meltiades thugs with only 2 Block but good body armor, while wearing weak 1DR helmet to not lose any THC. So in the first round, during all tries, their openings were exclusively aim: head doing ~12 dmg per hit to me.
So I've decided to change my load a little, pumped Block to 5, and switched iron lorica with -25 DEF to crafted leather armor from Aethelas with almost no penalties to DEF - while still keeping the helmet.
Interesting thing happened - enemies stopped using aimed attacks at all, because they concidered their THC too low for that. Or maybe they did it because my body DR became lower? Anyway, they began to only hit me with fast attacks.
But fast attacks did way less single time damage, meaning light armor was capable to shrug these attacks off, becoming as capable as heavy armor.
If only they continued to try aim: head even with low THC they could have won again, but while I still struggled with a fight my survivability actually went up because of how AI works.

Maybe it was because you lowered your block penalties. With higher block and light armor is more dificult to hit you in the head than with lower block and heavy armor. Anyways, 2 block is almost nothing.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Playing a bit with daggers now. Incredibly weak in the beginning. Important to use heavy daggers (Yatagan) since they have lower penalty to aim attacks and can lower enemy THC/DEF by 10-20 points, while smaller daggers can't.
After aquiring Arbiter (unique steel dagger in Maadoran) things become a lot better - sometimes I manage to connect 3 out of 3 arterial strike hits in a row, bursting enemy down in 1 turn. Nets and mushrooms help a lot.
Also Sharpening Stone/Shrooms > Flurry. Anyone with bad armor gets wasted.
Studded Ordu Armor +1AP is good for 12 AP build.

It would have been nice if after Feint enemy got penalty to DEF, like you're hitting him in the back and shit.

Question is, with 10 STR, 10 DEX and 6 PER, how many enemies I would be able to burst with say, an Axe in comparison, and then wtf you need daggers for.
Since every other weapon has 2-handed version, daggers already have less options in combat - swordsmen can even put Gladius in a bag slot like dagger. Maybe if dual-wielding was present, or special parrying daggers/swordbreakers...
Tried 10 PER build first since seems logical - aimed hits get more crits, but turned out to be counter productive because of low base dmg of daggers and penalty to debuff from aiming hits. But 8 STR 10 DEX 8 PER might be a decent alternative - more loot, more THC.

With no points in social skills failed Thief quests in Maadoran miserably. That last quest which doesn't make use of 3 out of 4 Thief skills (1 steal check, imagine you pumped Sneak+Lockpicking+Traps). And yet after that there is D&D dungeon in Ganezzar :philosoraptor:

Thief quest line is probably the least consistent in it's checks through game.
Not that I am complaining since I don't have any Thief skills to talk about. But I was surprised there were no other fighting options like going through 12 guards or something at a time, in a usual AoD failure-state way, since you CAN finish Teron Thief branch by killing everything and even get an unique achivo (Killer of Men).

kyGCDLq.jpg


t38XSIt.jpg

Guess I'll continue with Arena and get Critical Strike to 6, since I am Not That Kind of Thief, will finish quest that way.
 
Last edited:

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,552
Location
Poland
452 body count
http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...138/B3F1E61110C8771287AEECDD794EDE5E74CE48A6/ (defeated Aga naked with liquid fire only, alchemy > crafting by a mile)

And a version with crafting and the best skeggox you can make:
http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...696/15090E5BF46951F773A97F7510C3F0DB289AC281/

Since I've killed Arena master earlier I couldn't get some of the kills. If I have time (but not this week or the next), I'll reload a save before I killed him and I should be able to get 10 more (6 for sure, I'm not sure what else I've missed due to the update). 20 more is possible even and with CS maybe even more but that would require insane amount of reloading (I just don't see a guy like that surviving in a group fight, he would be killed by archers/crossbowmen + bolas/nets).

BTW, I've noticed that after this update you no longer get +1SP for every scorpion killed.
 

t

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,303
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
452 body count
http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...138/B3F1E61110C8771287AEECDD794EDE5E74CE48A6/ (defeated Aga naked with liquid fire only, alchemy > crafting by a mile)

And a version with crafting and the best skeggox you can make:
http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...696/15090E5BF46951F773A97F7510C3F0DB289AC281/

Since I've killed Arena master earlier I couldn't get some of the kills. If I have time (but not this week or the next), I'll reload a save before I killed him and I should be able to get 10 more (6 for sure, I'm not sure what else I've missed due to the update). 20 more is possible even and with CS maybe even more but that would require insane amount of reloading (I just don't see a guy like that surviving in a group fight, he would be killed by archers/crossbowmen + bolas/nets).

BTW, I've noticed that after this update you no longer get +1SP for every scorpion killed.
Too bad they've already added the arena contenders. But you hold an unofficial record :)
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
We added the first batch. In the future updates we'll add more single challengers and an ambush.
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,552
Location
Poland
@t
But not for long, mindless has already surpassed my 96 Teron body count and he will surely surpass me in other locations. Depending on his score I might try to break his record but if I see a 480+ body count I won't even bother because it would require a special build and an insane amount of reloads.

I have 22.8 hours of AoD gameplay in the 2 weeks time span, he already has 76. I don't have that much free time.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,838
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Might be a bit late to submit challengers, but I recently beat the game with this:
lStmKf3.jpg

(Gear and traditional agathoth gloating here http://imgur.com/a/xYxnX )

I think swords are probably the worst choice for weapon, if not for the fact that the ones you can find are pretty much always one or two materials ahead of the curve. Agathoth was very hard, had to resort to spamming alchemy stuff.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
452 body count

The cool thing about mindless build was not the expressive body count, but the fact the had zero dodge and block and was still effective. I would be more impressed by a new, and unexpected build, than mere body count numbers.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I wish we could get the old Teron hard Antidas fight again back again.

Mostly because I never actually managed to beat it in the beta. :negative:

Vault Dweller We demand a Codex Mode with special tougher fights!

To me the easiest weapons are Axe for sheer damage, Bow and Crossbow. (It's funny how raw damage is so effective in a system like AOD.) Daggers I haven't had great success with and Spears I know are great but annoy me. I'll probably go hammers next.
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,552
Location
Poland
The cool thing about mindless build was not the expressive body count, but the fact the had zero dodge and block and was still effective. I would be more impressed by a new, and unexpected build, than mere body count numbers.
It was cool but it must have required insane amount of reloading. Again, I have 22.8 hours of gameplay in the 2 weeks time span, he already has 76. Not sure how many of it was spent on his build but you can be sure that he died a lot. A lot lot. Widowmaker is a giant with clay feet, he can die in 1 turn (and that's at the moment he has the best armour and helmet available) and with group fights that would happen a lot.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Vault Dweller We demand a Codex Mode with special tougher fights!
That would mean standard game mode would be easier, meaning game would have Easy and Normal Codex mode, meaning UNNACEBTUBRU

To me the easiest weapons are Axe for sheer damage, Bow and Crossbow
Even with 5% nerf Axes still have 2.5 extra STR points of damage or around it rite

As for bows, nothing says more about them when a dirty fallout villager in Monastery shoots you through blue steel armor for 20 dmg crit with a bow/crossbow also knocking you down/slowing - perfect for a WASTED parody.gif
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
It was cool but it must have required insane amount of reloading. Again, I have 22.8 hours of gameplay in the 2 weeks time span, he already has 76. Not sure how many of it was spent on his build but you can be sure that he died a lot. A lot lot. Widowmaker is a giant with clay feet, he can die in 1 turn (and that's at the moment he has the best armour and helmet available) and with group fights that would happen a lot.

I know, but what I'm trying to say is that he didn't need to kill that insane amount of people to have a interesting build. With zero block and zero dodge he had a deadly build in many points of the game. How about a high critical strike build with high alchemy and no investment in other weapons? I will try that one.
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,552
Location
Poland
I wish we could get the old Teron hard Antidas fight again back again.

Mostly because I never actually managed to beat it in the beta. :negative:
I've managed to beat it and I remember how hard it used to be, that's why I've been bugging Vault Dweller for months to increase its difficulty.
It's too easy considering that you walk into the home of one of the most powerful people in AoD world guarded by his elite guards. I remember when in 3-4 turns almost all of IG were decimated by Daratan guards, now the player doesn't have to do much (if anything) to win this fight. IMO it should be one of the hardest fights, maybe not as hard as them decimating in 3 turns but harder than it is now. I doubt Antidas would invite armed men if he wasn't sure he could handle them without much losses (what would be the point of killing them if he would lose all or almost all of his guards in the process?).

I know, but what I'm trying to say is that he didn't need to kill that insane amount of people to have a interesting build. With zero block and zero dodge he had a deadly build in many points of the game. How about a high critical strike build with high alchemy and no investment in other weapons? I will try that one.
You won't have enough ingredients to win many fights (unless you will invest in some weapon).

(...) I think swords are probably the worst choice for weapon, if not for the fact that the ones you can find are pretty much always one or two materials ahead of the curve. Agathoth was very hard, had to resort to spamming alchemy stuff.
Swords used to be the best weapon and you could buy very, very powerful ones (blue steel).
 

hivemind

Guest
I actually used to think that swords are complete shit but they are actually pretty good for low str builds.

The damage I got from bleeds in the hard version of the pass fight was a lot more that what I would have gotten with an axe for my 5 str dodge build.

But yeah they used to be broken as fuck. Shamshir had default what 15% THC and 25% counterattack chance ?
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Was something done with the critical hit table? I could have sworn I was getting more damage from criticals on my dagger build before this update.

Very nice loot from the challenger fights, especially if you kill the last one fast.

Vault Dweller We demand a Codex Mode with special tougher fights!

To me the easiest weapons are Axe for sheer damage, Bow and Crossbow. (It's funny how raw damage is so effective in a system like AOD.) Daggers I haven't had great success with and Spears I know are great but annoy me. I'll probably go hammers next.

Problem with Daggers is:

-Low damage which makes for a rough beginning unless you pair it with Alchemy or Crafting (though you can find a steel dagger almost right away). Every other melee weapon group has big hitting 2H weapons to get you through.
-Passive that only works on aimed attacks.
-Needs to be paired with CS to truly shine.

That said, if you can handle the additional skill investment for CS and grind through the early fights they definitely start showing their worth and are fun to play around with. They become versatile and effective, especially when it comes to 1 on 1 fights when you surgically dismantle an opponent.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom