Murderous Psychopaths Needed!

[Agesilaus]

Is this thing still open? I'm tempted to be a little creative and see what sort of special and violent character I can make.

 

[Agesilaus]

Okay, here's my entry: Kallikles! It's the guy from Plato's Gorgias. Total arsehole, thinks he's smarter than he is. I recommend putting him with the philosophers in the temple district of Ganezzar, and using quotes from Gorgias. As you can see, I made him a new set of blue steel equipment after I killed Thor Agathoth; the spear is a Hasta, and I have a backup Dori. Mostly relied on high level crafting and alchemy, but dodging hit ten right before the big battle.

Some might say it was a close fight with the former Arena Champion.

The Magi forgot to make their robot demons fire-proof.

Same with their gods.

Trophy shot!

Final stats.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think I came up with funny "safe" build although I didn't play full fighter, just did quests.
Still killed a lot of mooks.

So it probably has to be improved by dumping some quest-stats like INT etc.

Spoiler

The idea is simple - crafted Spiked Club with +crit chance and +hit chance and poison on it and maxed out crit rating as possible. It makes every Knockdown a crit, which throws enemy 1 tile away and stuns for 2 rounds and also applies Poison on him. Then either finish enemy with aimed hits or step back 4 tiles, wait him come to you and Knockdown again safely poison-kiting and saving poison ticks.
Every crit also nerfs enemies armor DR for 1-2 pts.
I used buckler but against ranged enemies heavier shields can be used for better protection; and 10+1 AP armor.

The build is also nice if you want to save some NPCs from dying by stunning enemies.

 

[Lurker King]

Okay, here's my entry: Kallikles! It's the guy from Plato's Gorgias.

Callicles: "Justice is when the powerful rule the weak".

 

[Rivmusique]

Final stats of Wuld, the Guardswoman who killed an alien tentacle god

Spoiler

Equipment:

and a selfie with her last opponent:

I didn't have the psychic protection thingamajig so it was a tuff fight. P satisfying. Btw Elhoim in the end, my ending slide was that Paullus didn't have a need for a Legatus who rose through the ranks thru political manipulation instead of battlefield valour. As you can see, I did nothing but kill people on the battlefield. So not sure if bug or if that's the standard end for all Guardsmen who go with Paullus?

I managed to do it without psychic protection as well, but without PA too? Kudos.

Yeah that ending slide was a bit odd though it might have been meant as in you didn't prove yourself as a commander on the battlefield ( "political maneuvering instead of battlefield victories") which is different from being just a pure killing machine I guess.

RE: Imp Guard ending slide.

Spoiler

It's based on your rep, mine got the "fuck off and git good in the wastes" at 14 rep, then I reloaded awhile before that to try slightly different late-game fork, ended with 15 and got a more cushy job working with an Aurelian legion.

Edit: I had royally screwed up the formatting, how did I even manage that.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

RE: Imp Guard ending slide.

Spoiler

It's based on your rep, mine got the "fuck off and git good in the wastes" at 14 rep, then I reloaded awhile before that to try slightly different late-game fork, ended with 15 and got a more cushy job working with an Aurelian legion.

Edit: I had royally screwed up the formatting, how did I even manage that.

Spoiler

Yeah, I know (for me it depended on whether I did Glabrio's bidding during IG storyline) but the point still stands. It still says "Even though your rank is a result of political maneuvering rather than battlefield victories" when all my guy did was kill people and was largely responsible for the victory at the Haran's Pass (killed Ordu's best warrior, trained soldiers with dodge, melee and crafting etc.) which should count as a notable battlefield victory. There's also the killing of Antidas and leading the charge on Ganezzar.

He did no political maneuvering whatsoever, he's just a very efficient killing machine completely lacking in any social skills whatsoever.

 

[Shadenuat]

Final stats of my amazon

Spoiler

Didn't bother with Agathoth 2d time tho, doubt I could have handled him in this playthrough (well just replace 10 Crafting with 10 Alchemy I guess).

Everything else however stands 0% chance against Bow + Alchemy. I used 2 bows during playthrough - Short Bow to apply poison ticks in the beginning (3 ticks - 4 ap per shot) and various massive fights; and recurved bow for some burst and actual damage later with blue steel arrows.
I used leather armor with AP 12 until I could make Blue Steel Manica (1st light metal) which is better than leather armor. Wanted to see what Meteor is about, kinda dissapointing - nothing special compared to other metals, just bonuses.

With kiting and sparingly use of fire obstructions I destroyed every combat encounter right after jumping out of cradle including whole IG line non-stop.

About the arrows, it's basically should be 1 barbed arrow for 4-5 armor piercing arrows. Meaning barbed arrows are only useful against clothes and radscorpions (they die in 3 shots lol). Anything except armor piercing arrows is useless.

Speaking crossbows vs bows, I think crossbows lose completely when it comes to kiting and tactics.

Final story slide:

Spoiler

Talking about moronic choices and repeating magi mistakes, our amazon finds herself whispering in the ear of the emprah of men where those men are treated as slaves how they should be. Cause only a real womyn knows how to keep privilege in check

 

[Darth Roxor]

THANKS FOR REMINDING ME JUST HOW MUCH CHARACTERS WITHOUT CRAFTING GET SHAFTED IN THIS GAME

WTF BLUE STEEL ARRERZ

MY GOD

 

[Shadenuat]

...actually in the endgame I used Meteor arrows.

(ducks into cover)

It's because archers don't need anything but cheap wood from buckler shields to craft new weapons... all that junk blue steel and meteor metal should go into something useful lah.

 

[Whisper]

It looks like Dodge is better then Block.

 

[Darth Roxor]

that feel when you get through the whole game shooting iron arrows and using the leather armour you looted from based fulvio after he got sliced up by the IG centurion

 

[Whisper]

that feel when you get through the whole game shooting iron arrows and using the leather armour you looted from based fulvio after he got sliced up by the IG centurion

For combat playthough, i would now probably go: full Dodge, fulll Axe (Sword?), full Crafting.

Also dodge works so well because you can cripple their accuracy (which for Block build does nothing), also more AP since Block means you will wear heavy armor which limits AP.

 

[Shadenuat]

It looks like Dodge is better then Block.

Nah imo Block is superior. It's just that, obviously, one can't use bow & shield.

And the strongest argument for Block is that

Spoiler

best easter egg armor in the game comes with shield pre-equipped that you can't get rid off.

Talking 1-handed weapons, I too would go either with Axes or Maces. Sword special bonus is basically like a heavily nerfed alchemy. Instead of going with maxed swords one could, say, put a bit less points into Axes and then 4 points into Alchemy and have way better DoT ticking damage than random bleeding (and you can also do bleeding via Critical Strike, I think I even managed to make ppl bleed on my 1st playthrough with Spiked Club + stun + poison - very nice).

As for axes their passive bonus makes them kinda a no-brainer choice.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You can still dodge even with the pre-equipped shield from the easter egg armoire.

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh that's nice to know.
I still prefer blocking damage from attacks tho than the random of dodge - after playing amazon I didn't like how 1 crit can totally ruin your day and depended more on kiting and offense.
Even in Teron having 6 Dodge didn't mean I was somehow safe from damage even from simple mooks. Sucks failing your roll and eating whole damage from any 2-hander.

 

[Mozg]

People are confused about "block goes with heavy armor" thing. Armor penalty applies to blocking and dodging equally. I remember in the combat demo "armor penalty" was just dodge penalty, but now taint so. I mean, block NEEDS heavy armor because you get auto-"hit" by two handers and shit that can penetrate your shield DR even on a miss, but there's no actual synergy.

The armor penalty on shields doesn't stack with the penalty on your armor, it's a "whichever is greater" thing. So if you're wearing praetorian armor, an infantry shield isn't going to make your dodging/blocking any worse.

You can wear a shield when you have dodging>blocking and you still dodge. You even get the benefit from the higher vsRanged and vsCrit a shield gives even though you'll never use it to block. Power armor is fine for dodgers.

Block is categorically inferior to dodging except for the important fact that it starts from a 15-point-higher base and there's some free training for it without any stat requirements. Because of how flat hit%-evade% works that's actually more important than you might think, since like at (say) 5 skill attack vs. 5 skill defense, a 20 point difference in defense ratings means the blocker is taking something like 3/5ths the damage of the dodger, but it's pretty boring.

 

[hivemind]

I mean, block NEEDS heavy armor because you get auto-"hit" by two handers and shit that can penetrate your shield DR even on a miss, but there's no actual synergy.

THIS

except for the important fact that it starts from a 15-point-higher base and there's some free training for it without any stat requirements.

True about the free training but doesn't the 15 point higher base gets nullified by mobility modifiers that dodge gets most of the time ?

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Dodge is also offensive. At highest levels you'll get counter-attacks galore, just hit the enemy in the arms a few times and he'll kill himself attacking you.

 

[Mozg]

One more difference is that blocking is immune to the defense penalty from aim:leg. That would actually be a huge advantage if the AI would try aim:leg at relatively low hit% like 20 or something, because every once in a while a guy with a two hander would aim-leg you for 20 and suddenly open you up for more stacked aim-leg until you are in a world of shit. However, the AI doesn't work like that and doesn't go for poor % aim-legs. Instead you get the paradoxical effect that the AI aim:arms blockers it can easily hit, which debilitates them, while aim:legging dodgers that it could already easily hit in the first place.

 

[Shadenuat]

People are confused about "block goes with heavy armor" thing. Armor penalty applies to blocking and dodging equally.

I always thought they're mutually exclusive since that's how Vince explained it for the demo.
And, well, you don't really have points for more than 2-3 combat skills.

As for Armor Penalty to flat Defence it's a non-issue for crafter especially in late game, or anyone who got Blue Steel Armor from Arena Champion or PWA. So you can have it as low as 10 very quickly.

Is it possible to make an ultimate tank then, with crafted buckler/cavalry shield with no armor penalty and 10 penalty armor/PWarmor? To get defence into ~200s?

the AI doesn't work like that and doesn't go for poor % aim-legs.

Yea he prefers aimed to arms. I exploited aim: legs in my philosopher with big club playthrough, knockdown > aimed legs can completely ruin dodger for like -30 points right away.

Dodge is also offensive.

You also don't have other choices for ranged weapons or 2-handers so yea.

 

[hivemind]

Is it possible to make an ultimate tank then, with crafted buckler with no armor penalty and 10 penalty armor/PWarmor? To get defence into ~200s?

Highest I got with dodge so far was 159(naked) defense rating but the build had some flaws when it came to getting the most possible def.
I think around 163 or 164(or maybe slightly more depending on how exactly training from combat SP works as my 159 build didn't do two fights intentionally and I forgot to do another - also depending on how much combat SPs you get from IG quests compared to the HA quests ) is probably where the 'cap' for dodge exists.

I'm not sure if a block build can make it to the or over the 200 mark.

However I'm weary of trying out these kinds of runs right now because I think I saw it mentioned somewhere that they plan to add on more faction specific training around the game and if I'd slaughter my way through the entire game with several characters in search of the most combat sp/training only to see that a combat skill trainer was added to a different questline I'd get actually triggered.

 

[Lurker King]

Block is categorically inferior to dodging.

No, is not. Dodge require less combination of stats and skills, but in the long run take more damage. The dodger build is more intuitive and offensive, but it is not superior in anything. Besides, you are simply ignoring the stats that go with different builds. A heavy armored blocker needs STR (bonus damage!) and CON (less poison damage, higher survival rate) to diminish heavy armor penalties. CON is also useful in combos with the elixir, but not DEX. The argument that power armor is useful for dodgers is retarded, because it was designed to be useful for dodgers and blockers, and you can only obtain the power armor at Gannezar, which is near the end of the game.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can wear a shield when you have dodging>blocking and you still dodge

It looks like design oversight to me since skill descriptions definitely push player into picking one.

 

[Jaedar]

No, is not. Dodge require less combination of stats and skills, but in the long run take more damage. The dodger build is more intuitive and offensive, but it is not superior in anything. Besides, you are simply ignoring the stats that go with different builds. A heavy armored blocker needs STR (bonus damage!) and CON (less poison damage, higher survival rate) to diminish heavy armor penalties. CON is also useful in combos with the elixir, but not DEX. The argument that power armor is useful for dodgers is retarded, because it was designed to be useful for dodgers and blockers, and you can only obtain the power armor at Gannezar, which is near the end of the game.

Are you making the whole CON reduces armor penalty thing up? Because I can't see anything about it in the game.

 

[Lurker King]

It looks like design oversight to me since skill descriptions definitely push player into picking one.

It is, but if you use a shield with a dodger, you will have to unequip it every time you want to use nets, liquid fire, etc.