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MUDs in 2012? Are there any good ones left?

cnoTe

Barely Literate
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Sep 7, 2014
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I've played a really good RPing medieval/fantasy MUD for years on the Skotos website, Castle Marrach. Take a look around the website and the public portion of the wiki:

http://www.skotos.net/games/marrach/

The nice part is, they have 7 games you get access to, all with different themes for different types of RP, and they've been running since pre-2000 as there is a dedicated community that keeps things moving, no matter what. :)
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Man, Skotos must be desperate for new players. :lol:

I recall playing Castle Marrach/The Eternal City for a bit, trying them out anyway. They have unique non-script-happy mechanics such that you don't need to (and can't) write an entirely separate program just to parse combat in a way human beings can keep up with.
 

Levenmouth

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It's also because people who've been playing 5, 10, even 20+ years and have hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands of dollars (I personally know a few who've spent $10,000+) and even more hours of playtime feel invested.

I don't think it's just money. I've started playing MUDs roughly a decade ago, so I'm a bit late for the party, starting with the worst pay-2-win scheme imaginable and slowly shifting towards Armageddon and RPTs (Shadows of Isildur, Atonement, Parallel). The biggest issue for me is that, unless the MUD is big enough already, you have two problems that take all the fun out of the game:

1.) I live in Germany. Most MUDs are run from the US for the the US player base. This means that unless I stay up until 3 in the morning, there world is largely empty. Furthermore, any and all in-game events take place during those spike times.
2.) Unless you have enough players, you don't really have any kind of authentic competition. Players will pretend that their characters are competing with you and you will pretend to compete with them, but in the end you're really just pretending all day long. I played a cyberpunk MUD which was great, but everyone knew everyone else and it just seemed like playing dolls all the time. Armageddon, with its seizable player base, is much better in this regard since you usually wouldn't know the characters of an opposing faction. It's a little light on game mechanics though, so I've been browsing for something with more coded things to do lately.

It's a bit of a shame, but when I'm looking for a new MUD nowadays, the number of players is usually the number one criteria. That being said, I do hop around a lot.
 

Levenmouth

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It's surprising how many of them are out there though. You would think that after playing them for this long, one would at least have heard of all the major ones, yet here am I finding a new one with 150 concurrent players and mandatory RP just yesterday. I'll withhold commenting on it for now though, since I have no idea if it's actually any good. They seem to have some kind of donate to get perks system, although it looks more like a minor thing.
 

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
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RPIs are known for permadeath, class-less and level-less systems and, of course, mandatory RP. They're not your gamers' MUD though.
 

Hoaxmetal

Arcane
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I'm still butthurt that Discworld has that inactive account system so my character got deleted :<
 

artakserkso

Educated
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Annoyed me as well. But you can probably get to where you were soon if that happened.
 

Levenmouth

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Mandatory roleplaying is hell. That particular feature is associated with farmville playing socializers and furries who put larping above game play.

It's the closest you can get to pen and paper in a persistent form. My only real issue with it is that it doesn't mimic any form of reality very well, whether it is fantasy, sci-fi or anything in between. Everything is comically exaggerated to the point of looking like a complete farce. It's totalitarian regimes through the eyes of someone who has never left his hometown and genius physicists played by people who don't know that gold is not a very light metal. Just about the only RP-heavy MUD I've played that was all right in this regard is, once again, Armageddon (specifically Tuluk). A completely normal society that is exceedingly racist. Everything else is just disappointingly "unimmersive". I just wish they didn't stick to their principles of making the UI and the general gameplay as unintuitive as possible to the point they don't even use colour.

I never really saw much point in playing the non-heavy RP MUDs where you can't directly communicate with GMs and influence the game world. If you want to grind levels or solve adventure riddles like in MUD2, MMORPGs and adventure games always seemed like a much better way to go.
 

Whiran

Magister
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
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641
It's the closest you can get to pen and paper in a persistent form. My only real issue with it is that it doesn't mimic any form of reality very well, whether it is fantasy, sci-fi or anything in between. Everything is comically exaggerated to the point of looking like a complete farce. It's totalitarian regimes through the eyes of someone who has never left his hometown and genius physicists played by people who don't know that gold is not a very light metal. Just about the only RP-heavy MUD I've played that was all right in this regard is, once again, Armageddon (specifically Tuluk). A completely normal society that is exceedingly racist. .
I just have to know... is that the Old Tuluk of Armageddon or the New Tuluk?

I believe Tuluk was remade around 2001 for the distinction of old vs new?

There was a design goal after Tuluk was remade - to try and make it make some sort of sense. That's part of why I'm curious about it.

I agree with your assessment as to the cultural construction of many locations in MUDs - but, to be fair, that holds true for most game environments as a whole. The moment you take a closer look at what's going on one comes away with a lot of: "What? That makes no sense."
 

Levenmouth

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That's new Tuluk. There's a giant crater in the "middle" with the city itself being located to its southwest. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but there's even the word New somewhere in the name. The northeastern part was still rubble the last time I checked with reconstruction efforts slowly under way. That was roughly two years ago.

I know what you're talking about, but I mean something a little more specific. I'm perfectly fine with Armageddon's non-existent water cycles not making any sense. What does break immersion however are stereotypes that are so naive that they wouldn't even be acceptable as character arcs in professional wrestling. There are just too many moustache twirling villains and holier than thou maidens, neither of whom make sense in the context of the society they live in. It's even worse in MUDs--like the one I am toying around with now--where you have character progression within the social hierarchy. Once a character leaves serfdom and becomes a citizen, he suddenly feels the intense urge to hate other serfs. Why? Why, because we're playing in the totalitarian regime state and serfs are scum! Tuluk makes more sense through the sheer consistency of its prejudices.
 

set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
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I started playing the Wheel of Time mud. It's got some interesting mechanics, though I'm disappointed by some of the limitations - like how you're restricted to 10 items in your house-containers? I feel like a lot of these MUDs need to upgrade their code to use SQL. Using binary files to maintain persistence is so dangerous and probably why there are so many design limitations? Though, HellMoo allows up to 100 items in a room and as much as 50 to 60 small items in a single container.
 

AJx

Barely Literate
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Oct 19, 2014
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I recommend trying Imperial (imperial.modeemi.fi:6969).

It's an old mud, built originally from Diku codebase but is over 80% custom code at this point, with an enormous world mapped by its players (with a little digging you can get a link, or explore on your own). The player base is everywhere from American to European to Oceanic, there's always people on to answer your questions.

Right now, the mud is a little top heavy, but I, for one, wouldn't mind making a new character to help any of you guys out if you want to start, or if you want to fast track we can boost you straight into exp-groups.

The mud has the best grouping system I have ever seen, requiring teamwork and healers (yes, healing spells really work here), and includes a rows system for front line, mid line, and back line (think: warriors/rogues&healers/mages).

My main on the MUD is Gaijin, I'm an American player living in Japan. Send me a tell and let me know you're from this site :)
 

Levenmouth

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Not to be confused with Imperian, which I recommend avoiding like the plague, unless you're currently writing a paper on microtransactions in online video games. People think that Korean MMOs and free-to-play online shooters are bad; they haven't played IRE games. I'm still angry about having wasted time on their game and that was over a decade ago.

PIYtz0C.gif
 

set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
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It's surprising how many of the "top" muds (be it on the "rating" sites or on the sites that track population size) are P2W.
 

Levenmouth

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The mechanic they use to rate sites is fundamentally weak and prone to abuse. Not only is it rather stupid to have to go to a specific site and click a button every single day if you want to show that you like this site, but a number of MUDs have also abused this rating system. IRE MUDs, back when they still had a brownish webclient that most people used, would suddenly show you a huge blinking pink button prompting you to vote. If you used a different client, they would just keep spamming you with in-game messages to do so until you finally voted. At times the moderators, including the main(/only?) administrator at the time, Clem, would shamelessly break the fourth wall, doing which would be subject to punishments for players, and bellow that you should vote for their game.

It's ridiculous, but it's a vicious circle that works. More players you pester with blinking pink buttons, the higher your rank, the higher your rank, the more players you'll get to further pester with the said pink button. Achaea, which like all IRE MUDs is ridiculously P2W, was the first MUD I played for a lengthy period of time. It's fairly impressive that Armageddon is so high up in that list, considering that they do none of the above.

I just have to say it now, that in case anyone read this and wants to try out Achaea, Aetolia, Imperian or Lusternia, do yourself a favour and just don't. They offer nothing other MUDs don't offer and are just a handbook variant of bad business practices. They recycle content (two of their MUDs basically share the same world with some modifications), you can and basically have to buy everything with real money (including your basic skills (yes, you pay to be able to attack better), crafting skills, premium items that are superior to regular items in every regard, housing and, most importantly, "friends"--as in real people who will work for you, support you in in-game elections by telling everyone how cool you are, harass people for you, have "MUD sex" with you, have MUD sex with other people for you and do pretty much anything else you want as long as you pay them) and you will spent a lot of it if you want to get anything out of the game. Most people I've known--that includes school students from working class backgrounds--spend on average more than 350 2004 US dollars and a number of people spent upwards of 10k. Yes, that is $10,000 on magic swords with three lines of description in an online text game.

The staff, a.k.a. huehue "Gods", are incredibly unfriendly and often outsourced tasks to volunteers who both paid and worked for IRE. This included minor stuff like game moderation and reading literature contest submissions, but also and later more frequently writing new areas for the game, which usually resulted in some rather poorly-worded world description.

EA's idea to allow the player to buy extra magazines by spending a dollar in the middle of a Battlefield game is pretty tame stuff compared to what this company has been pulling off for almost twenty years now.
 
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set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
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It's definitely a cycle, but I don't know a good alternative.

I feel like, what with "indie" games gaining traction among people, MUDs might start to become fashionable again. It might be in a few years time, they become more mainstream. Someone should capitalize on this while it's still a potential thing and bulid a service which helps to reduce that kind of bias and to promote MUDs to newbs.

It's not sufficient to call them text-MMOs because they - the old ones anyway - play like far more advance games than what you can find on the current MMO market place.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
I started playing the Wheel of Time mud. It's got some interesting mechanics, though I'm disappointed by some of the limitations - like how you're restricted to 10 items in your house-containers? I feel like a lot of these MUDs need to upgrade their code to use SQL. Using binary files to maintain persistence is so dangerous and probably why there are so many design limitations? Though, HellMoo allows up to 100 items in a room and as much as 50 to 60 small items in a single container.
No, that's pretty much an arbitrary limitation completely unrelated to their codebase. I had players keeping way more stuff than that 15 years ago. They sure as hell aren't doing it because of any technical reason, they're just doing it to be jerks about it.
 

Levenmouth

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In TMS' defence, I think they have been keeping taps on this to some degree. As far as I remember, around 2004 you used to get in-game buffs for voting for Achaea. Eventually they had to remove it, but kept the flashing button. Later they again changed it somehow to circumvent TMS' policies. Fortunately there's a much better public understanding of what constitutes P2W now than there was ten years ago, which may dissuade people from going into MUDs like those of IRE in the first place. Granted, a number of people I've met in MUDs weren't exactly gamers.
 

set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
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Well, I don't know the % amount, but I know there are A LOT of players - or at least I've met a lot - who use screen readers. MUDs are basically video games for the visually challenged, so it's not likely they could play other kinds of games even if they wanted to.
 
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(...)
I play MUDs because I want the MMORPG experience... with features modern MMORPGs should already have at this point:
Guild Housing
Personal housing
A myriad of clothing options
A myriad of roleplaying options (you can be human, elf, dwarf, sure, but more exotic options should exist and be encouraged)
A myriad of roleplaying opportunities (you know, actual roleplaying, not just the number combat stuff)
A persistent world that has been developed in conjunction with the users of the MUD; you can leave a mark on the world with your actions
A persistent world with consistent 'lore'
Tense, exciting combat or action that matters; few safety nets, just low 'safety' in general - your items can be stole, lost or broken, your enemies can kill you if you aren't aware and careful
Death matters
The game isn't just a grind (all RPGs are grinds, but they shouldn't just be grinds)
The game has alternative paths of advancement (combat isn't necessary up to a point)
Genuine secrets

One of the only MUDs I've played to hit most of these marks is... well, HellMOO. It's a shame it's run by a bunch of apathetic asswipes who barely bother to play or develop the game anymore, but it's got a lot of great game mechanics. You can advance your character solely through crafting and exploration is really rewarded... well, it was when I played it aeons ago, it's all been spoiled by a wiki by now. It's a shame the staff there actively discourages roleplaying (you basically have to hide and carefully feel out people before trying to roleplay with them). It's also a shame the game was wildly imbalanced when I played it (rip empaths and chuds). But... I still think it has so many elements to it that are great that are totally missing from modern RPGs and all mainstream MMORPGs.

Playing Hellmoo, for the longest time, was like walking down a dark corridor, never knowing what to expect next. A horrible diseased mutant that will give you AIDS and a fungal infction after leaving you with a slither of life and no batteries left in your flash light? Or maybe a trove of junk you can haul home to make into an airplane that's worth more experience when built and worth more money when sold than grinding a bunch of text zombies for hours on end. RPGs are best when they combine the elements of exploration, item management, character advancement, and 'roleplay', yet most modern RPGs can barely get a single aspect of these right anymore.
(...)
Hey I like your post. The list you give is good. Not sure how ell I agree, but enough.

I played lots of muds over the years. I can't remember 10% of the names. Really.

One thing I'll add is I found many, MANY things in MUDs were more advanced or detailed than the normal graphical MMORPGs. I don't know if that's because graphical ones are more mainstream or because MUDs are text-based. BUT I did prefer the grpahical MMORPGs in terms of it seeming more easy to visually digest. Some MUDs didn't even have a mini-map which showed the nearby envrionment.

I'd like to revisit it all. Tehre's just soooooooooo much out there now. Too many games I'd like to try. 3d/2d/MUDs and single player games. /sigh. Se, you only have X time in your life to spend on frivolous things. You can't make perfect choices. It's more like stumbling in th dark.
 

Norfleet

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I played lots of muds over the years. I can't remember 10% of the names. Really.
Tell me about it, man. It's always something unmemorable, like Rise of the Fallen Dragon or something.

One thing I'll add is I found many, MANY things in MUDs were more advanced or detailed than the normal graphical MMORPGs. I don't know if that's because graphical ones are more mainstream or because MUDs are text-based. BUT I did prefer the grpahical MMORPGs in terms of it seeming more easy to visually digest. Some MUDs didn't even have a mini-map which showed the nearby envrionment.
Both. It's both. Mainstream, obviously, dumbs things down, but the fact that things don't have to be represented graphically and animated certainly lowers the barrier required to create a given system in the first place. Compare "Dwarf Fortress" with all the graphical imitators thereof.
 
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I played lots of muds over the years. I can't remember 10% of the names. Really.
Tell me about it, man. It's always something unmemorable, like Rise of the Fallen Dragon or something.

One thing I'll add is I found many, MANY things in MUDs were more advanced or detailed than the normal graphical MMORPGs. I don't know if that's because graphical ones are more mainstream or because MUDs are text-based. BUT I did prefer the grpahical MMORPGs in terms of it seeming more easy to visually digest. Some MUDs didn't even have a mini-map which showed the nearby envrionment.
Both. It's both. Mainstream, obviously, dumbs things down, but the fact that things don't have to be represented graphically and animated certainly lowers the barrier required to create a given system in the first place. Compare "Dwarf Fortress" with all the graphical imitators thereof.
Here's what I think I remember:

Midkemia? Or Midlekliem (lol). I think I played something like that for a little. Seemed fun-ish. Didn't stick to it.
Icesus? Was cool, I think. Can't remember why or when I stopped.
Achaea (spelling). Was cool. Big world. Lots of things. I think I tried Aetolia or Imperian too. There're a couple other MUDs all in the same company or something. RP-rules were annoying. Lots of weird classes. You could buy low and sell high. Good pvp, I was told.
Discworld. Played or a short while. Don't remember much.

I played a lot of other random MUDs. One of htem sticks out in my mind. I don't know of it was Icesus or another one somewhere. It had a mini-map which showed yoru surroundings. Very large world. I got lost in one of hte dungeons with someone else.

I've never subscribed to a MUD. I've never played for more than a month or two on any single one. Even with graphical MMORPGs, the only two I've played consistently AND subbed are EQ and Wurm Online. Sure, I've played lots of UO player-run servers and random MMORPGs, but never really return to anything after rolling with it for several weeks.

I had a lot of fun with MUDs. There's a lot of variation with them. I don't like RP-rules, however. Too stifling. I played htem ;ong enough to start scripting the MUD client I usd. I didn't use an automapper, though.

I think if I played again, what I'd like is to be able to automaticlly record the rooms I'm in and store them in a 2-dimensional grid. What I want is omething that acts like an automapper, but without everything being mapped beforehand. I really like fog of war in different games I've played. I also like to explore a lot. I don't like premapped stuff. I'd like the whole automapper thing with fog of war even more if I could scribble notes onto the rooms - like "merchant" or "quest" or "stairs".

Anyone tried (?): http://godwars2.org/
 
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set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
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940
There are a few muds I've played that have an ASCII map that renders with detailed information. I honestly think it's essential - it makes learning the game much more rapid.
 

Redeye

Arcane
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What about that stick-figure game?
 

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