Most useless spells?

[Azrael the cat]

Energy Drain in BG2. Who would waste a level 9 spell slot to drain two levels from a target? Especially since by the time you get 9th level spells, most enemies have so many levels that losing two won't make any real difference.

It can knock an entire spell level off some enemies - the difference between them being able to cast time stop or not.

 

[Lilura]

She will get hunted as the weakest chink in a party. Getting her to melee range is suicide since they will concentrate on her.

I like this guy, he knows how to use female pronouns.

Spoiler

Unlike BioWare in BG1.

 

[octavius]

I like this guy, he knows how to use female pronouns.

Spoiler

Unlike BioWare in BG1.

Do you mean CHARNAME is always refered to as "he", or what?

 

[Beastro]

you guys are combatfags. spells are cool for roleplaying purposes

Don't get this and the silly divide between casters and melees in RPGs. Rather have them merged in silly ways I'd rather have them mixed, but still keep distinct classes.

Going back to the generic fantasy setting, Gandalf wasn't a pussy in a fight that relied on casting shit, he had a sword as well and used it a hell of a lot more. Beyond that, pure magic casting is silly for dramatic reasons and fails in movies when you see two guys going at it throwing on a light show while looking like they're shitting sandpaper.

 

[Dzupakazul]

If you are a low level mage in a highlevel multi-class character then wouldnt it defeat the purpose of this argument?

Excuse me, but what? I was talking about any mage or mage hybrid with a level not exceeding 3 or 5, tops.

We are talking of absolute low level config. At that stage, low level mage is not even a paper tiger, but a paper deer. She will get hunted as the weakest chink in a party. Getting her to melee range is suicide since they will concentrate on her.

That's why you have precautions to prevent you from being chunked immediately. Sleep. Blind. Shield. Attacks from shadows. By spell level 2, where Chill Touch still has superior damage output, Mirror Image, Blur. Other tanks can step in to tank the brunt of the first shot. That's a different story if you're playing solo mage - but if you are, you really do not have much in terms of damage options at level 1.

At medium to high level, why the hell would you enter melee range in the first place? if you want tiny damage, magic missile or chrom orb make perfect sense from afar. more damage and you got flame arrow or fireball. even more you can try firestorm or minute meteor.

Do you not understand that at level 1, you're making a choice between multiple applications (it doesn't fade after first punch) of 1d2+1d8 damage with a THAC0 malus to further debilitate your opponent, or a dinky 1d4 missile which can, at most, prevent Tarnesh from finishing his Horror or Mirror Image cast in the first bigger fight of the game? At level 3, said missile spell becomes 2d4 damage. At level 3, you can self-cast Strength to improve THAC0 and possibly fist damage (but I am not sure if unarmed damage is improved by strength in BG), but even without that precaution, Chill Touch will do more DPS simply by the virtue of not fading immediately. Chill Touch remains a solid spell. Furthermore, if my calculations are correct, a starting mage who casts Chill Touch is effectively equipped with a magical weapon he can wield at THAC0 of 16. That's better than a level 1 elven ranger with a bow. That's more than a fighter at the same stage of the game.

And at medium-to-high level, well, see the bottom of this post.

The basic configuration of a mage is a ranged attacker. He can buff, debuff, AoE, or precision strike but at range. Getting him into melee range is the hobby of maddog and masochist~

I'd say you lack imagination, especially when my post already pointed out ways in which it is a perfectly viable playstyle. I did not conjure it out of thin air, you know. Of course it isn't some sort of a God-given spell, and it has its limitations and problems. It does not fit every situation, and I do not advocate using it as a band-aid for all encounters. But, with proper setup (there's really plenty of ways to ensure the toucher's safety, even by levels 1-3), a Chill Touch mage can be incredibly resourceful.

Most importantly, I can prove Chill Touch to be not useless, perfectly within the spirit of the thread.

If you have to play melee-range caster no matter what, then play a cleric. She got the armor and HP to stand a few hit in that position.

If you have to play a melee-range mage, you will find yourself outperforming the supposed powerhouses like Korgan in the tanking or DPSing department by midgame. There's some ridiculously stinking cheese you can apply with spells like Polymorph Self. You can turn a standard, run-of-the-mill mage into a 5-attacks-per-round killing machine, whose each attack poisons and has pretty low THAC0, and who positively cannot be killed, because mages, by spell level 4, start getting access to their godmode toys. Protection from Magic Weapons is BG2's answer to Doom's invulnerabiliity sphere. Does not last long, but just long enough to mop up any encounter. That, by the way, is why Aerie is probably one of the strongest NPCs in the whole game.

 

[Eirikur]

Light spells that create a glowing orb of light, which hovers around in a very distracting way while also being far too bright to look at. Torches über alles.

 

[laclongquan]

Snort~

That sure looks good on paper.

A low level mage got very few spells that she can use immediately. That's the point~ She may know a lot if you buy/find spells for her, but to deploy them is another problem.

At low level her ability to hit is weak, weak. hard to hit, hard to cause damage, hard to avoid, hard to take a hit. One strike and she's down. Hell, if they use missile on her she's down. Shield spell will help but only little.

At low level, her pre-casted spell will be armor and shield. She might have enough for a Blur or Mirror Image if level 3+. Possibly a Protection against evil, but not necessary if you set her waaaaaay back instead of front line. But that's it, because she need to be doing something else other than selfbuff. Also, remember that Shield is only useful for 1 fight. Make a second fight and its duration is near expired.

The most effective spell in her arsenal would be Sleep (if enemy is not set to resist sleep, or living), Grease, to cover for the archers and melee fighters. Replicate them if you want her to be effective for more than 1 fight between rest. The single spell left, will be either shocking hands or burning hands for absolute final defense, when some leakers go past the wall of protectors.

Summon lvl1 is actually quite good, but it require players like to micromanage summons a bit.

Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb will replace the two status spell above if you know before hand enemies is undead or resist sleep.

Level 2 spells for lvl3+ mages would be Horror, or Web. My personal favourite is Scorcher, but when enemies move it will make the line of fire change and damage my own protectors. Again, replicate them if you want your mage is of use for more than 1 fight.

Level3 spells is for level5+ mages, which is outside of this scope.

At low level, mages are very weak melee and so-so archers. So the best you can is to use status magic, then change to slings or bows. Generally, two castings is 1/3 of a fight already. So get your sweat going.

mages are high powered artillery only at middling to high level.

 

[Lord Andre]

Multi-classed fighter-mage can make good use of the touch spells. Ghoul's touch is a personal favourite.

 

[Dzupakazul]

That sure looks good on paper.

I've made a successful melee mage.

At low level her ability to hit is weak, weak. hard to hit

Again, -4 THAC0. Chill Touch giving higher THAC0 than a Fighter can have at level 1.

hard to cause damage

Again, 1d2+1d8, you can apply it 6 times (spell lasts a turn, turn is 6 rounds), you can't get a better damage output on a level 1 mage.

hard to avoid

Punch unconscious enemies. Use all protective spells and potions you can muster.

hard to take a hit.

I'm not advocating using it on every situation. A pack of bandits with bows? Probably needs to retreat. Greywolf, Karlat, Bassilus, Silke, Tarnesh (once his Mirror Image is interrupted)? Viable.

Hell, if they use missile on her she's down. Shield spell will help but only little.

Shield spell makes you immune to Magic Missiles.

At low level, her pre-casted spell will be armor and shield.

Just punch unconscious enemies instead.

She might have enough for a Blur or Mirror Image if level 3+.

If level 3, you can immediately learn a Mirror Image spell and immediately become supertanky by that very virtue, and you're still more useful with the Chill Touch spell than with two dinky Magic Missiles. What the hell is your point here?

Also, remember that Shield is only useful for 1 fight. Make a second fight and its duration is near expired.

There's hardly a point in BG where you're dissuaded from resting infinitely. Some random encounters might wake you up on some tougher spots, but I'm assuming you're not going to them as a level 1 mage unless you're cheesing or ironmanning (where cheese tactics with easy Sirine/Ankheg XP is necessary).

The most effective spell in her arsenal would be Sleep (if enemy is not set to resist sleep, or living)

You mean there's a spell which prevents enemies from doing any harm to your mage, allowing him to easily deal damage to them with no fear of repercussion? At even more THAC0, because unconscious enemies are even easier to hit (you're looking at functional THAC0 12 for a level 1 mage?) Something I've been saying all along?

Become a specialist mage. Level 1, memorize Sleep and Chill Touch. You're set. If you're a Fighter/Mage, you have enough bulk to just go by on Chill Touch, or forgo it altogether (though it is still useful, magical damage that passes Stoneskin) and shoot bows from afar.

Summon lvl1 is actually quite good, but it require players like to micromanage summons a bit.

Easily replicable with wands. Like most spells, anyway.

Level 2 spells for lvl3+ mages would be Horror, or Web. My personal favourite is Scorcher, but when enemies move it will make the line of fire change and damage my own protectors. Again, replicate them if you want your mage is of use for more than 1 fight.

Web + potion of freedom + Chill Touch = dead people. Again, a level 3 mage can do this.

At low level, mages are very weak melee and so-so archers. So the best you can is to use status magic, then change to slings or bows.

Or punch unconscious enemies with cold damage, continuously.

mages are high powered artillery only at middling to high level.

And yet they're perfectly self-sufficient at every level.
You're also forgetting that pretty much everyone and their dog picks the Ring of Wizardry from Friendly Arm Inn. Doubles level 1 spellslots, no reason not to use it, makes your ability to put things to sleep and punch stuff better.

 

[Zombra]

 

[laclongquan]

EVERY time you go up to a target and use chill touch, you are gambling that your Touch will hit and enemy will miss. If enemy hit, even once, your mage is screwed. Even if both side hit, you are still screwed because mage is papermache.

The single advantage you find is Chill Touch. http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24082 show there's some buggy thing in the spell. basically, it give +4 THACO for backstab, and normally a +4 which is fine. BUT the bug give another +4. SO it's buggy. That is the nature of your argument.

Even so, that weapon wont solve the problem of weak defense. One hit and your mage is down, dont forget. And we dont even talk about undead being immune to cold damage.

Sleep wont work on every single enemy. Ditto with Web. As long as one enemy is not helpless, you are gambling with your mage.

Make a count.

lvl1: Armor + Shield + ProtEvil + Sleep
lvl2: Web + Blur OR Mirror Image.

How many slot left for Chill Touch? I say, 4? enough for one fight but probabbly not enough for two. Dont forget, the next fight you might have to recast Shield and ProtEvil. Definitely Sleep.
If you use Chill Touch, you are going to rest after every fight. And gambling that you dont die. the stress will get to you.
If you only use Sleep and Web, then change to sling/bow, you will have enough for more than 2 fights. And the stress-free life of a safely protected mage.

 

[Dzupakazul]

The single advantage you find is Chill Touch. http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24082 show there's some buggy thing in the spell. basically, it give +4 THACO for backstab, and normally a +4 which is fine. BUT the bug give another +4. SO it's buggy. That is the nature of your argument.

I never mentioned that. Also, -4 THAC0 is what always happens when you strike from invisibiltiy, shadows, or any other such source. A Thief/Mage's primary use of Chill Touch would be to heighten his chances of delivering a strong blow with it by lowering his THAC0 by hitting from stealth. All of my other examples referred to a pure mage or a fighter/mage, neither of those can backstab.

Even so, that weapon wont solve the problem of weak defense. One hit and your mage is down, dont forget.

Again, prepare the battlefield to make sure it does not happen.

And we dont even talk about undead being immune to cold damage.

Then don't use it against them. Similarly to how you wouldn't use regular weapons against a Flesh Golem, or anything other than magic damage against the wraith from Kozah's dungeon. Again, I never proposed CT to be the be-all-end-all spell, merely highlighted its possible uses.

Sleep wont work on every single enemy. Ditto with Web. As long as one enemy is not helpless, you are gambling with your mage.

Make a count.

lvl1: Armor + Shield + ProtEvil + Sleep

Who says I need the Armor spell? It's shit. I can also replicate the Shield spell with a proper amulet, but even if I did not, I wouldn't necessarily need it either. Protection from Evil is completely unnecessary, and if it were, somehow, a Cleric or Paladin can cast it on the mage. Also, Ring of Wizardry lets me memorize a ton of spells. I can easily make room for Sleep, CT, and maybe Shield.

lvl2: Web + Blur OR Mirror Image.

These slots have no bearing on how many slots have I left for Chill Touch.

How many slot left for Chill Touch? I say, 4? enough for one fight but probabbly not enough for two.

How is that relevant for most of the game? Sleeping is allowed near everywhere, and the random encounters that happen can be easily beaten, unless you're a dumbass who goes to sleep in the Ankheg Farms as a level 1 character.

Dont forget, the next fight you might have to recast Shield and ProtEvil. Definitely Sleep.

Not necessarily. I can make due with any spells, items, or whatever I need.

If you use Chill Touch, you are going to rest after every fight.

If I expend my level 1 spell slots on shitty Magic Missiles, the same thing will happen as well.

If you only use Sleep and Web, then change to sling/bow, you will have enough for more than 2 fights. And the stress-free life of a safely protected mage.

I can also take a Potion of Freedom, cast Web, go Invisible from a potion, item, or spell, dance around the edges of the web until all enemies fail to make their save, and beat them all up with cold fists. That's how I solo'd encounters like Sendai/Delgod/Alexander, or the amazons next to Nashkel Mines. With a single-classed mage.

Are you illiterate? I merely said that CT has uses and can be highlighted for many useful things.
You can beat up many of the single enemies you meet in that game, or entire groups if you isolate them. That's ALL.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Does BG not have coup de grace mechanics? I know in 3rd edition sleep is basically the go-to OP shit because once you put an enemy to sleep, any blind retard can walk up and get a free auto crit with something insane like a giant scythe, even without weapon proficiency. Summon monster and Grease (for any indoor battle especially) are also super useful, and while burning hands is shit damage, it can light stuff (like say... grease?) on fire, and covers a decent AoE.

'Useless' is a relative term. A shitty car may not technically be useless, but if everyone who owned a shitty car also owned half a dozen luxury cars, trucks, helicopters and jets, the shitty car doesn't really fulfill any purpose well enough to ever be used. I think a lot of the lower level illusions are like that.

 

[Average Manatee]

BG does not have coup de grace. It's in NWN1/2, but only against enemies with <4 HD.

It's even more OP than you stated. It's a free critical hit, and if they survive they need to beat a fort check DC10 + the damage they took, or they die. Given that even a standard +0 longsword wielded by a low strength fighter is going to crit for at least 10 damage, that basically ensures 95% chance of death.

As for the chill touch discussion, I surely wouldn't use it in PnP or any game with a smart AI/AoOs. BG however has very limited AI and no AoOs, so you can waltz in next to two fighters having a duel and grab one's balls without attracting aggro or being in any real danger.

 

[laclongquan]

Going into melee without Armor? Now you are one suicidal mage~ It's about the best early protection you can get, especially early game when you can not have better magical robes or bracers. Without Armor on, your risk in melee go way up.

As for MM, note that I wont advocate on using them mainly. They are to be used when you know upcoming enemies are missile-resistant, sleep-resistant, and undead. Lowlevel mages' main weapon is status magic like Sleep, Grease, Web. After casting them they switch to ranged weapon.

Lowlevel mages are too weak to be without a full party supporting them.

Solo mages? Rest after every fight.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Armor is a terrible spell replicable with any AC Bracers that you can get very early, and Shield is vastly superior because you do not need 8 hour protection, and, again, you can have your cannon fodder take the brunt of the first attack because monsters don't tend to reaggro in Baldur's Gate. Seriously, if nothing I wrote convinces you, take it from me - I've beaten a game with this playstyle with little to no reloading necessary.

All I can say is, Chill Touch is viable enough that you can build an entire playstyle around it, and it's not trash like its counterpart, Shocking Grasp, which disappears after one touch, for instance.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Okay, so yes, with enough preparation Chill Touch becomes a usable spell. You could say the same thing about an Archer kit that does pure melee. Just because you can make it work doesn't answer why you'd want to, and why it's worth going to all that effort to accomplish it when your energies are better directed somewhere else.

As for Energy Drain, that always struck me as the sort of spell that's in the game more for the enemies to use than the player, as having your spellcaster level drained can be a huge PITA. Though come to think of it I'm not sure how often I've seen it cast

 

[Damned Registrations]

One of the problems with energy drain vs casters is that it goes by touch AC and casters tend to have that in spades. Dex is a good investment for their ranged touch attacks and a natural dodge AC, and their 'armour' tends to be deflection typed, which iirc applies to touch attacks. Not to mention shit like mirror image, blur, or various spells to add cover/concealment and general positioning for such. Trying to hit a caster with Energy Drain or any other ranged projectile is a dicey affair. Trying to hit a dragon or giant or something like that is like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Lhynn]

Okay, so yes, with enough preparation Chill Touch becomes a usable spell. You could say the same thing about an Archer kit that does pure melee. Just because you can make it work doesn't answer why you'd want to, and why it's worth going to all that effort to accomplish it when your energies are better directed somewhere else.

This is the reason minmaxers are disgusting.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Okay, so yes, with enough preparation Chill Touch becomes a usable spell. You could say the same thing about an Archer kit that does pure melee. Just because you can make it work doesn't answer why you'd want to, and why it's worth going to all that effort to accomplish it when your energies are better directed somewhere else.

I've done enough to mention that it's a maximum DPS mechanic a level 1 mage can muster, and has enough support to make it viable, and I would certainly rank its offensive potential as much higher than other offensive, level 1 spells in the early game. But this discussion is now a stagnant back-and-forth, so all I can plea to every sceptic is to at least give - no, consider giving, when you have 5 minutes to spare - the spell a try. I don't mean "just go and do a random encounter with it". This will get you killed. But I have, however, given some examples of situations where I had used CT to a good effect, that I couldn't, at the time, replicate through better means. My argument boils down to the idea that CT is not only usable, but also effective. I wouldn't compare it to an archer doing pure melee, which is, obviously, complete nonsense, nothing the archer kit does supports this kind of idea and it's just impotent busywork. I consider the Chill Touch thing, however, just one of the many options you have. Personally, I had managed to use it to great effect, and didn't feel like I'm trying to reinvent the wheel doing so.

It's also got some ridiculous potential for easy-to-setup exploits that make you God Mode, but I'm already shitting up this thread too much.

 

[Night Goat]

Light spells that create a glowing orb of light, which hovers around in a very distracting way while also being far too bright to look at. Torches über alles.

Torches have the downside of taking up a hand, but it doesn't matter because when was the last time a game required you to provide your own light source? I did actually get some use out of them in Dark Souls games, but it seems like every other game has caves and tombs that produce their own ambient light somehow.

 

[Lhynn]

Torches have the downside of taking up a hand, but it doesn't matter because when was the last time a game required you to provide your own light source? I did actually get some use out of them in Dark Souls games, but it seems like every other game has caves and tombs that produce their own ambient light somehow.

It happens in my games sometimes, but lately everyone is a demi human scum, so they dont really need torches. The only human is the thief, which is funny because... because well everyone can act better in the darkness than him.

 

[Absinthe]

you guys are combatfags. spells are cool for roleplaying purposes

I see we have a LARPer among us.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

"Contact other plane" in Icewind Dale, sure it gets you that way cool armour that you can get otherwise anyway, but apart from that, it's a waste of a level 5 slot. One scroll for the whole game is all you need, if even that.

 

[Sensuki]

As for the chill touch discussion, I surely wouldn't use it in PnP or any game with a smart AI/AoOs. BG however has very limited AI and no AoOs, so you can waltz in next to two fighters having a duel and grab one's balls without attracting aggro or being in any real danger.

Enemies do change targets intelligently in Baldur's Gate but I don't think the check runs every frame (which is fair enough) and if they do change targets you can just run your Mage away until the next loop.