Most useless spells?

[octavius]

Worked on blasted efreeti!

How many?

How about Disguise, now, that one was properly useless.

Like Concealment in the Age of Wonders games. At least if playing single player.

 

[Alex]

Magic Missile and (to a much, much lesser extent) Chromatic Orb laugh at you.

Wasn't Chromatic Orb pretty powerful later on? I remember it being able to kill instantly or turn people to stone. Although its material component was pretty costly, though later on that isn't much of an issue, I think.

There are plenty of non combat spells on the first level that aren't only pretty good early on, but also scale very well. Mount would allow you to summon a gryphon you could ride on later levels. The shrink spell started getting pretty good after level 10 (when you can shrink things to half the size). By level 19, you can shrink them to 1/20th of their original size. In each dimension too, if I am not mistaken. Grease doesn't get much better later on, but it could always be used to make fun traps.

 

[octavius]

Chromatic Orb was very powerful at higher levels in Icewind Dale. I prefered it to Magic Missile. The latter was better for taking down Mirror Images, but on the balance I prefered CO.

 

[Somberlain]

Chromatic Orb kills instantly at higher levels, so it's pretty good. Targets save with +6 though, so it's not quite like Finger of Death.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Wasn't Chromatic Orb pretty powerful later on? I remember it being able to kill instantly or turn people to stone. Although its material component was pretty costly, though later on that isn't much of an issue, I think.

There are plenty of non combat spells on the first level that aren't only pretty good early on, but also scale very well. Mount would allow you to summon a gryphon you could ride on later levels. The shrink spell started getting pretty good after level 10 (when you can shrink things to half the size). By level 19, you can shrink them to 1/20th of their original size. In each dimension too, if I am not mistaken. Grease doesn't get much better later on, but it could always be used to make fun traps.

Grease doesn't need to get better later on, because it's bullshit OP from the get-go. Even if your targets are guaranteed to make their saving throws, it's still difficult terrain they effectively have to tiptoe through to get to you and will have a bitch of a time fighting on top of. Especially since the falling down thing is based on a skill check, rather than a saving throw. Even a motherfucking Tarrasque has a 10% chance of falling on it's ass if it walks into grease, and another 25% chance of stopping it dead in it's tracks and forcing a (admittedly trivial) reflex save. And since it's dumb as a rock, you can probably get it to charge onto the shit as well.

Come on, what other spell has a 10% chance of knocking a fucking Tarrasque off it's feet, let alone a level 1 spell?

 

[Average Manatee]

The cone-shaped spells like Color Spray are useless to me, in that they're unwieldy to aim on isometric planes.

I'd agree about the cone-shaped spells in general for the IE games, but Color Spray is just OP as fuck. It's arguably the most powerful 1st level spell for wizards and even at high levels stunning multiple enemies for 1 turn is the perfect economic crowd control spell to use once or twice for easy encounters. And for some reason BG buffs it massively so that you get full stun effects (= like 10 rounds of stun) as long as you out-level the enemy, which is just silly.

 

[Zombra]

Thread turns from amusing conversation about underpowered crap to excited powergamer talk about sweet exploits.

Thread becomes boring.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't recall which IE game it was, but I was playing one and an enemy somehow managed to use Faerie Fire to turn my entire party into snivelling cowards. There have been some very strange decisions regarding low level spells in those games.

 

[Delterius]

Seems a bit weird to object to a disenchantment spell in a genre that was invented by a story about destroying a magic ring.

Good thing Gandalf is just a level 5 Fighter/Mage. Otherwise it would make for a poor story.

 

[Alex]

Thread turns from amusing conversation about underpowered crap to excited powergamer talk about sweet exploits.

Thread becomes boring.

Apologies. It is just that I find many of the D&D spells rather interesting. I was even thinking of making a thread about what spells in games have the most potential to be used creatively. I didn't mean to hijack this one, though.

 

[Zombra]

No apology necessary, let's bury the hatchet and get back to taunting Night Goat

 

[Jaesun]

Know Alignment was also a lost opportunity.

It is actually used in a side-quest for Paladins in BG2...

 

[lurker3000]

It is actually used in a side-quest for Paladins in BG2...

I let that bitch die.

Also the problem with a lot of "useless" spells is that they are much more useful in PnP where there is much more freedom. Throwing them into the IE games and others just adds depth to the environment.

 

[Damned Registrations]

How about some of the useless spells in roguelikes then? 'Wish' comes to mind in Adom- there's no way to cast it and survive unless you've already broken the game so badly you don't need to wish for anything to win easily. Create item is also rather worthless; it costs a large amount of mp and the item it generates is completely random, and therefore pretty much guaranteed to be worthless given the amount of time you need to regen all that mana could have been used to get several drops through other methods.

 

[Jaesun]

Also the problem with a lot of "useless" spells is that they are much more useful in PnP where there is much more freedom.

Until we have the technology to add a *real* computer GM to a RPG, there is only so many things a Developer can do.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

How many?

Too few. Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty crappy spell, but it had a use or two in my time of playing...for instance, in a castle siege, could hypnotize a level 1 stack to open the gate.

 

[Dzupakazul]

This! The barely useable is burning hands for dying trolls, and that's it. Any melee touch spell for wizard is beyond useless and wander into self-harm. casters are weak, and if they have to use level 1 spells, it means they are low level, and getting them to melee range of enemies? Bitch please.

Objection to that statement. Touch spells have their limitations, but Chill Touch is actually a solid spell, and you can build a mage (but preferrably, a Fighter/Mage or Thief/Mage, but then again, for pure powergaming reasons, you never want to play a pure single-class if you can prevent it) around it in the early game.
Out of damage options, it is the best one at level 1; it deals 1d2 (fist damage) + 1d8 damage, and unlike it's level 1 counterpart, Shocking Grasp, it doesn't fade after the first punch, should it fail (at least in vanilla BG1). And every touch spell gives you a -4 THAC0 modifier. You can combine that with effects like invisibility (or hide in shadows), which further decrease your THAC0, and of course knocked out enemies can be hit much more easily. Chill Touch also reduces enemy THAC0 by 2 every time you successfully connect; I've used this property to effect against Greywolf, Bassilus and such.
A mage with Mirror Image, Blur and such can easily be in melee range, at least in BG1, and if he is a flanker in an arrangement where any tankier character takes the brunt of the damage, it isn't a problem. In BG2, you start gaining access to god mode spells like Protection from Magic Weapons and Stoneskin. If you suddenly realize that your Mirror Images are falling apart way too easily for comfort, chug an Invisibilty potion and hightail out of melee range.
As such, touch spells (and conjured weapons) can actually be built around in BG, even on a single-classed mage or sorcerer, but it requires a different playstyle. If you utilize a melee-oriented playstyle on your mage, you'll find that CT's main drawback is that its cold damage chunks enemies and removes some of their equipment, but that merely means you have to be careful not to finish off named NPCs with it for the most part. As such, its fair game against trash mobs. Solo mage can easily go by with putting his enemies to Sleep and then Chill Touching them to death.
Touch-ranged Baldur's Gate spells that remain very solid are Vampiric Touch, Slay Living and Harm, and you can do some ridiculous cheese with Black Blade of Disaster, particularly on multiclassed or dualclassed characters.

Truly useless Baldur's Gate spells are obvious duds like Infravision and Goodberries, unnecessary for most playstyles Know Alignment (but not Detect Evil, as it doesn't take any Paladin spellslots anyway, and can be useful for scouting an area), and maybe some of the more situational Power Words, but aside from that, BG is pretty good in terms of spell balance. It would be more interesting to talk about spells that are not worth memorizing because of how easily replicable they are.

Too few. Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty crappy spell, but it had a use or two in my time of playing...for instance, in a castle siege, could hypnotize a level 1 stack to open the gate.

Look this up.
There's a lot of really tough fan-made maps or maps specifically made for puzzles with obscure spells in mind in HOMM3, actually, and they're the ones to go for if you're looking for creative uses of Quicksand, that one Mine spell, Hypnotize, and the like. Granted, it does not make those spells any less crappy in a normal game, simply because a normal game rarely reproduces the conditions necessary to make said spells shine.

EDIT: Also, in the spirit of the thread, the status-affecting spells you could use in M&M3 didn't have any satisfactory feedback or effect.

 

[Beastro]

For JRPGs that's status effects besides the few instances where they're OP.

That and Cure Poison.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Like Concealment in the Age of Wonders games. At least if playing single player.

Concealment was the bomb in AoW 1. AoW SM is the only one where it doesn't work vs AI

 

[Shin]

probably waterbane?

With this spell the caster or target would not get wet from fresh water or saltwater only. This spell had no effect on creatures from the Elemental Plane of Water and did not prevent drowning. Once cast, this spell lasted for one full day.

 

[MilesBeyond]

probably waterbane?

Seems like it could be useful for keeping scrolls, McGuffins, etc safe on overseas journeys.

 

[laclongquan]

Objection to that statement.

If you are a low level mage in a highlevel multi-class character then wouldnt it defeat the purpose of this argument?

We are talking of absolute low level config. At that stage, low level mage is not even a paper tiger, but a paper deer. She will get hunted as the weakest chink in a party. Getting her to melee range is suicide since they will concentrate on her.

At medium to high level, why the hell would you enter melee range in the first place? if you want tiny damage, magic missile or chrom orb make perfect sense from afar. more damage and you got flame arrow or fireball. even more you can try firestorm or minute meteor.

The basic configuration of a mage is a ranged attacker. He can buff, debuff, AoE, or precision strike but at range. Getting him into melee range is the hobby of maddog and masochist~

If you have to play melee-range caster no matter what, then play a cleric. She got the armor and HP to stand a few hit in that position.

 

[Jason Liang]

you guys are combatfags. spells are cool for roleplaying purposes

 

[Jaesun]

you guys are combatfags. spells are cool for roleplaying purposes

The vast majority of the Codex are actually story fags, but we also like our combat. Basically we want our cake and we want to eat it too...

 

[lurker3000]

you guys are combatfags. spells are cool for roleplaying purposes

100% agree. Problem is I have no friends and only play cRPGs. CRPGs almost never use these spells for roleplaying purposes.

I do have 2 sons and cannot wait for them to realize the power of Comprehend Languages or Animate Rope. Shit is going to be off the hook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!