Morrowind vs Skyrim objectively

[Lord Azlan]

I do have an issue describing First Person shooters as RPG or ARPG. I love some of these games - I know I have spent more time in Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim than nearly all the other games I have played combined.

Not true - no way true - but I have spent a lot of time on these games. A LOT. 1,000+ hours on Skyrim.

RPG are great, but some of them are really about the story and focussed on that. If you don't like the story or don't connect with it - hard to like the game. I am not really a story nut - rather read a book or watch a film if I want story. In many of the "RPG" games I play I don't pay attention to all that stuff. This is probably due to my poor eyesight and I can't read all that stuff - would love to but I can't.

Recently played LoX for 56 hours - ain't got a clue about the story - just don't know anything about it. Completed Fallout 1 recently, don't know much about the overall plot. Completed Fallout NV - again - the plot, the factions, I can't explain them to you.

Maybe I have some attention deficit - could well be. Or maybe it's the poor eyesight where I can read but not remember.

Baldurs Gate, Knights of the Republic, Dragon Age - just could not get into them - although I really liked and completed ME1 and ME2.

In some ways I think RPG mean you can do what you like, go anywhere you want. Play whatever character you want. If I want to spend time harvesting flowers for alchemy - let me do it. I can't explain how many hours I did that. Totally pointless. You don't tell me where I can and can't go. I decide.

As for Morrow v Skyrim.

Using the traditional way of describing RPG games, Morrow is much better. In terms of story telling it just had more of these 'moments".

What happened to the Dwarves, the Mushroom homes, the giant crab town, Vivec, levitation, damn volcano mountain, the story of the Neverine, the Silt riders.

As I am writing this I have a map of Morrowind on my wall - and I am quite an old, fat and lazy guy.

Skyrim really does not have those moments, it has great immersion - but moments? Azura's shrine for the first time. Then there is lots of combat.

Looking through my steam account and making adjustments for my kid that also plays - see below.

Skyrim 1,030 hours
Dungeon of Dredmor 175 hours
Fallout NV 171 hours
Risen 83 hours
BT 1 60 hours
Fallout 1 59 hours
LoX 56 hours
Grimrock 53 hours
Dragon Age Origins 48 hours
Arx Fatalis 44 hours
Mass Effect 44 hours
Knights of Republic 43 hours
Witcher 36 hours

 

[Menckenstein]

 

[CyberP]

Spoiler

...And welcome to Skyrim.

/end thread.

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Hello!

Putting nostalgia glasses aside, what do you think is the objectively better RPG?

Do you enjoy the dice-rolling button-smashing combat of morrowind, or the fluent slice-n-dice skyrim combat?
Which world had a greater immersive quality to it? (aesthetics, emergent elements as well)
How about the classless character progression in skyrim? Or would you rather have your character clasically "rolled" into classes?
Questlines! Which game had those written better?

I would love to hear some hardcore rpg fans answer those questions above in an as subjective manner as possible! Of course feel free to throw in some of your own areas of comparison.

P.S. I would love if some people who played/replayed Morrowind on some overhaul mods contributed! Since it makes it feel a little bit less retro and fresh in comparison to Skyrim.

HEre you go
Morrowind: great atmosphere, nice story-line and quests; shit combat mechanics
Skyrim: bland atmosphere and story; pretty good combat and fighting mechanics

 

[Cazzeris]

Hello!

Putting nostalgia glasses aside, what do you think is the objectively better RPG?

Do you enjoy the dice-rolling button-smashing combat of morrowind, or the fluent slice-n-dice skyrim combat?
Which world had a greater immersive quality to it? (aesthetics, emergent elements as well)
How about the classless character progression in skyrim? Or would you rather have your character clasically "rolled" into classes?
Questlines! Which game had those written better?

I would love to hear some hardcore rpg fans answer those questions above in an as subjective manner as possible! Of course feel free to throw in some of your own areas of comparison.

P.S. I would love if some people who played/replayed Morrowind on some overhaul mods contributed! Since it makes it feel a little bit less retro and fresh in comparison to Skyrim.

HEre you go
Morrowind: great atmosphere, nice story-line and quests; shit combat mechanics
Skyrim: bland atmosphere and story; pretty good combat and fighting mechanics

 

[MrMarbles]

Seriously though, seriously.... guise.... there is nothing to do in Skyrim... at all. Without mods it's a pointless place with pointless people, pointless loot and no challenge.

This pretty much sums it up. After strolling around Skyrim for 10-300 hours, you suddenly realise that everything is skin deep. There is no cool hidden questline, no character build that will change your interaction with the world in a meaningful way, no hidden nuggets of cool writing. Morrowind had some issues, but at least it had depth. The puzzle of the Dwemer disappearance for example was really well done, with that cyborgspider-guy in Tel Fyr. On my first playthrough I didn't even know it was a quest, it was just interesting to explore the lore.

Agree with AW8 on the music. Jeremy Soule pretty much always delivers, even for Oblivion, so the soundtrack isn't the deciding factor for the last TES games.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

go do mage guild questline in morrowind and than try that in skyrim. than come back and tell us which one was better.

protip: the one where you did not have to save the world again

 

[abnaxus]

REMOVE TALOS remove talos
you are worst nord. you are the nord idiot you are the nord smell. return to skyrim. to our falmer cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,tiber septim we will never forgeve you. ysgramor rascal FUck but fuck asshole nord stink alinor ae padhome altadoon altadoon..saarthal genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead nord..ahahahahahTIBER SEPTIM WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget red moutnain .lorkhae we kill the king , ysmir return to your precious atmora….hahahahaha idiot nord and nede smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE MAN FROM THE PATTERN. you will get caught.almsivi+alinor+falmer+pydonae=kill cyrodiil…you will sharmat/ nerevar alive in vvardenfel, nerevar making album of vvardenfel . fast rap nerevar vvardenfel. we are rich and have ebony now hahahaha ha because of nerevar… you are ppoor stink nord… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt

nerevar alive numbr one #1 in vvardenfel ….fuck the nedes ,..FUCKk ashol nords no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and contry. nerevar aliv and real strong wizard kill all the nord farm aminal with destruction magic now we the sons of veloth rule .ape of the zoo emperor reman fukc the slut alesh and lay egg this egg hatch and cyrodiil wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. morrowind greattst countrey

 

[Perkel]

one has npcs that tell you more about world than whole city of npcs in other game,
one has robust equipment system other has boots, armor, braces, helm,
one has interesting world other copied norse theme,
one has ton of interesting quests other has ton of boring kill x quests,
one has...

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

Do you get to the Cloud District very often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't .

If you have not heard that sentence for the 300 time you can't say you truly lived.
It is almost like : gather your party before ...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Regarding character systems, Morrowind vs Skyrim is a pretty good example of how complexity for the sake of complexity is not a good thing. The classic TES character system a giant pile of shit without any redeeming factors and Skyrim at least made the character system bearable by removing the wankery around maximum +5 stat-ups.

I'd love a game that combines both of their best aspects.

Some niggas are trying to rebuild all of Morrowind using Skyrim. As far as I know, they haven't self-destructed via modder drama yet, so there is hope that they'll be finished one day.

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Hello!

Putting nostalgia glasses aside, what do you think is the objectively better RPG?

Do you enjoy the dice-rolling button-smashing combat of morrowind, or the fluent slice-n-dice skyrim combat?
Which world had a greater immersive quality to it? (aesthetics, emergent elements as well)
How about the classless character progression in skyrim? Or would you rather have your character clasically "rolled" into classes?
Questlines! Which game had those written better?

I would love to hear some hardcore rpg fans answer those questions above in an as subjective manner as possible! Of course feel free to throw in some of your own areas of comparison.

P.S. I would love if some people who played/replayed Morrowind on some overhaul mods contributed! Since it makes it feel a little bit less retro and fresh in comparison to Skyrim.

HEre you go
Morrowind: great atmosphere, nice story-line and quests; shit combat mechanics
Skyrim: bland atmosphere and story; pretty good combat and fighting mechanics

As compared to Morrowind, ofc

 

[Delterius]

Hello!

1) Putting nostalgia glasses aside, what do you think is the objectively better RPG?

2) Do you enjoy the dice-rolling button-smashing combat of morrowind, or the fluent slice-n-dice skyrim combat?
3) Which world had a greater immersive quality to it? (aesthetics, emergent elements as well)
4) How about the classless character progression in skyrim? Or would you rather have your character clasically "rolled" into classes?
5) Questlines! Which game had those written better?

I would love to hear some hardcore rpg fans answer those questions above in an as subjective manner as possible! Of course feel free to throw in some of your own areas of comparison.

P.S. I would love if some people who played/replayed Morrowind on some overhaul mods contributed! Since it makes it feel a little bit less retro and fresh in comparison to Skyrim.

1) Morrowind as I don't consider RPG systems to be a strong asset of Skyrim's.

2) I do not find either to be very good.

However, as I am biased towards spellcasting, the greater variety of spell effects in Morrowind, coupled with spellmaker and the greater power that game allows (due to absence of level scalling in combat) makes the experience to be more enjoyable overall. Do realize that by focusing on magic I am pretty much not counting on what most young'uns seem to dislike in Morrowind, the pseudo realism and dice rolling.

Skyrim on the other hand simply did not hold a candle to other Action games I have played as of late. Games like Dragon's Dogma, which clearly had a much smaller budget and in some ways even tries running towards Skyrim, offers much more satisfying combat and even Dragons than Skyrim ever did. Also magic in Skyrim sucks.

3) Hands down Morrowind. The world is both much more elaborate and cohesive. Case in point the faction system. Though Skyrim improved on the general mediocrity of Oblivion's factions, Morrowind builts a network of conflicts and interests in between the various imperial legates, dunmer Houses and wild clans. Skyrim only does that with a binary confrontation in the Stormcloak Civil War.

That is not to say that Morrowind's implementation is perfect. But the world of the tiny island of Vvardenfell is much more interesting than the whole of Skyrim.

4) This is a bit autistic to bear with me.

I'd prefer a system whose natural conclusion is a full fledged character, with strenghts and weaknesses. Therefore an actual role in an actual game about roles, or RPG. Something which TES games have implemented to varying degrees. Ultimately, both Morrowind and Skyrim fails towards this goal but more so the latter than the former.

A straight class/race system lends itself towards elaborate characters. Right from the start you define, without a shadow of a doubt, in what ways you are skillfull but also those in which you suck. Morrowind's character works for a while, but it is too easily broken and any straight Mage can become a walking powerhouse stronger than Hercules with enough training.

On the other hand, Skyrim's perk system was meant to encourage a natural evolution towards a role. However, either the game itself is too easy or the perk system is unnecessary towards useful use of certain abilities, notably archery and magic in general.

What this means is that in both games your character's traits aren't very well defined. Both Dragonborn and Nerevarine are singular characters with the potential to become jacks and masters of all trades. Therefore, the game's primary objective, the ability to create different stories and experiences, that is, to condition roleplaying, relies entirely on the willingness of the player to play along. It is the player who chooses not to break Morrowind's character system and it is the player who chooses not to use skills and abilities that their Dragonborn is perfectly capable of performing because they themselves started playing the game with a character mold in mind.

Just as every Dragonborn can be a master of the warrior, the mage and the thieves' guild, so can they, at all points of the level scalled adventure, stealth, cast or swing bats towards success -- Perks or no. What happens is that players choose not to.

Likewise, in Morrowind you start off with strenghts and weaknesses, but enough grinding can make you a master of all just the same.

Strictly speaking, roleplaying isn't the logical conclusion of the games' systems and Morrowind's at least works for a bit of time after leaving Seyda Neen, whereas in Skyrim you can, say, use bows quite effectively as a race with penalties to that skill. But in the end, both games could use a bit of tweaking in the realm of RPGs.

TL;DR I don't think it matters.

5) Focusing on certain key questlines, I'd say Morrowind. Just as the world is much more elaborate in Morrowind, its Faction and Main questlines are much more interesting. Instead of accidentaly stumbling upon the leadership of the greatest factions, you quite literally work your way towards the top in many different quests. Skyrim was much more underwhelming in this regard.

 

[dryan]

Both games have bad voice acting, but Skyrim's is trauma inducing.

 

[1eyedking]

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim...

All five are shit. They all look like shit, they all sound like shit, they all read like shit and they all play like shit.

The idea that the TES series was good at some point needs to die.

That said, Morrowind is the least shitty of them all.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

1eyedkings gonna 1eyedking

go do mage guild questline in morrowind and than try that in skyrim. than come back and tell us which one was better.

protip: the one where you did not have to save the world again

Was it the one where you're the chores bitch for the guild, then?

Edit: another problem with Skyrim is that you aren't given a good reason to support the Stormcloaks. You learn right in the intro that you aren't a native, even if you're a Nord. You probably don't give a shit about Talos either. The dickery of the empire is revealed to be a consequence of wars weakening them and being forced to make concessions for the Thalmor. And finally, a weaker empire is bad for anyone not tall and yellow. One possible reason is being butthurt over them trying to execute you even though you aren't listed for death penalty, but 1) with Ulfric RIGHT THERE you can't expect them to care about some random THUG LYFE, and 2) if you follow the stormcloak guy into the keep, you get to kill the bitchy captain personally so you got your revenge already.

 

[Emily]

Guilds in Skyrim are hardly guilds. You don't really advance in rank or anything, you just progress the story. There's not a single "ordinary" guild quest. First thing you do in the College of Winterhold is clear a dungeon and discover the focal point of the entire questline. Mages Guild in Balmora? Go get some ingredients for some mage.
I think Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood was the worst offender. In Oblivion, you worked your way up through the quest line performing various assassinations, each one more difficult than the last, until you eventually gained the trust of your superiors and were given serious jobs. In Skyrim, you killed a few minor people, the Night Mother showed up about 4 jobs in, and you were chosen to be the sole perpetrator of an enormous assassination conspiracy.
Also the Thieves Guild. In Oblivion, you had to first prove your skill to even get in, and then had to steal independently until they even considered you for a job. In Skyrim, your first job was one that even a master thief (Vex) could not accomplish, and you were given it because Brynjolf basically had a hunch that you were good and because he saw you steal a ring one time.
Even worse? Even if you screw up the quest and fail to steal the ring he still sends you on the quest with a basic guarantee that you're a terrible thief. That and I felt like the DB and Thieves Guild in Oblivion actually required stealth. I completed both questlines the same as I would have any other in Skyrim, and that's loudly swinging about a sword and throwing fireballs.

 

[Perkel]

why you want guild quests when you have perfectly fine cave with more undead inside to explore ?

 

[Aladdin_Sane]

Seriously no one here belives there is no objectity in art?
Sorry, new here and had to ask.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Guilds in Skyrim are hardly guilds. You don't really advance in rank or anything, you just progress the story. There's not a single "ordinary" guild quest. First thing you do in the College of Winterhold is clear a dungeon and discover the focal point of the entire questline. Mages Guild in Balmora? Go get some ingredients for some mage.
I think Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood was the worst offender. In Oblivion, you worked your way up through the quest line performing various assassinations, each one more difficult than the last, until you eventually gained the trust of your superiors and were given serious jobs. In Skyrim, you killed a few minor people, the Night Mother showed up about 4 jobs in, and you were chosen to be the sole perpetrator of an enormous assassination conspiracy.
Also the Thieves Guild. In Oblivion, you had to first prove your skill to even get in, and then had to steal independently until they even considered you for a job. In Skyrim, your first job was one that even a master thief (Vex) could not accomplish, and you were given it because Brynjolf basically had a hunch that you were good and because he saw you steal a ring one time.
Even worse? Even if you screw up the quest and fail to steal the ring he still sends you on the quest with a basic guarantee that you're a terrible thief. That and I felt like the DB and Thieves Guild in Oblivion actually required stealth. I completed both questlines the same as I would have any other in Skyrim, and that's loudly swinging about a sword and throwing fireballs.

Oh god, Skyrim is worse than Oblivion.

 

[Dreaad]

"ART"

 

[bloodlover]

Also the Thieves Guild. In Oblivion, you had to first prove your skill to even get in, and then had to steal independently until they even considered you for a job. In Skyrim, your first job was one that even a master thief (Vex) could not accomplish, and you were given it because Brynjolf basically had a hunch that you were good and because he saw you steal a ring one time.
Even worse? Even if you screw up the quest and fail to steal the ring he still sends you on the quest with a basic guarantee that you're a terrible thief. That and I felt like the DB and Thieves Guild in Oblivion actually required stealth. I completed both questlines the same as I would have any other in Skyrim, and that's loudly swinging about a sword and throwing fireballs.

Spoiler

Weren't you supposed to grab some scroll or book from the mages at some point for the Thieves Guild in Oblivion but if you were part the Mages guild you could just simply grab it thus ignoring the entire stealth in the mission?

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

I know that TES games (And all that comes from Bethesda) is not well received here, but i really like these games. Morrowind is better RPG than Skyrim, its more complex as role game. But Skyrim presents a more detailed world that Cyrodiil or Vvardenfell (Even being more smaller). Combat system is better in Skyrim, no more stupid "missing hits", but it needs to improved. Quest are entertaining in both, but the dialogues are simply in Skyrim (In every Bethesda game since Oblivion, conversation are limited with stupid pauses). Archery and Stealth is better in Skyrim. Guilds are more complex in Morrowind. And main quest... well, are correct. Are those simplistic stories to put you in an "epic" adventure.

 

[Delterius]

I know that TES games (And all that comes from Bethesda) is not well received here, but i really like these games. Morrowind is better RPG than Skyrim, its more complex as role game.

I disagree with most of your post, meaning its unlikely we'll have a very interesting discussion. However, I think there's a point to be made here about how especially wrong the above statement is.

Daggerfall and Morrowind are both very much well liked in the Codex. Even Skyrim, in spite of its many issues, has a considerable following of desperate modding. Its just Oblivion that is pretty much universally despised in here. Are there people who despise the series as a whole? Sure, this isn't weloveoblivion.com so we are allowed to have that.

So when the RPG Codex likes to, say, point out the many advantages that old Morrowind has over Skyrim or the uniqueness of Daggerfall -- well, you are just not dealing with a hivemind of haters. Keep that in mind and you'll go far.

 

[Turrul]

I've never been a big fan of Elder Scrolls games, since every one of them (never tried Daggerfall or Arena) managed to push me off for different reasons about their gameplay. It still comes off kinda weird that Codex has many people who loves Morrowind as the game is all about LARPing and both the gameplay and the dialog system is full of suck.

Hello!
Do you enjoy the dice-rolling button-smashing combat of morrowind, or the fluent slice-n-dice skyrim combat?

Skyrim's combat is not that good, the game cannot telegraph the force of a warhammer for example, but I still think it's better than Morrowind's combat. Even a storyfag like me couldn't bear with Morrowind's combat. I've read that combat gets a lot better when you level up a bit and invest in your skills so melee stops being a miss-fest, but I already got fed up with that abomination of a dialogue system (looks straight outta Wikipedia) so I dropped the game.

Hello!
Which world had a greater immersive quality to it? (aesthetics, emergent elements as well)

TES games are generally great with this, even that POS Oblivion was great when it came to those portal-worlds or whatever it was. But Morrowind wins it ofc, and it's not just because of lel mushroom trees are so alien. Morrowind had pretty believable, big towns unlike Skyrim. Sadly, We don't have those kinds of towns anymore thanks to the fucking consoles and their shitty systems holding back the industry by USING THE SAME FUCKING GENERATION FOR 8 YEARS. Instead, we get Whiterun, a village with stone walls that's supposed to be a big trade center in the middle of a big province, Skyrim.

With that said, Skyrim has it's shining moments too, tensions between local populace and imperial forces, Some Nord's going "muh Talos" while others keeping their heads down and thinking that the Empire is the only chance for a good Skyrim, Thalmor going Gestapo around were all nice and fun.

How about the classless character progression in skyrim? Or would you rather have your character clasically "rolled" into classes?

Actually, Morrowind class system is pretty flexible. It was so flexible that ditching it completely in Skyrim made the game more streamlined aka decline if you ask me. Also; level-scaling, even if there's a cap so you don't have those Daeadric wearing Bandits like Oblivion, is a crime against Humanity.

Hello!
Questlines! Which game had those written better?

Never played Morrowind or Skyrim that much but Morrowind side quest looked a lot better. Can't comment on the main quests since I've never got that far in Morrowind but it seems like people prefer Morrowind's main quest more.