Morrowind defiling continues - Skywind

[Lemming42]

The fix is simple: traditional xp system that is used in countless rpgs. Unfortunately TES series has to focus on E-Larping so they feel obligated to stick to the 'grow by doing' system.

It worked well in Morrowind.

 

[deuxhero]

Honestly they should just rip off GCD.

 

[Excidium]

Honestly you should just shut your damn mouth

They need to fix what they have instead of ripping off a horrible mod, Skyrim perk trees were already a step in the right way

 

[Metro]

I can only assume you've never played a TES game to suggest such a thing

I've played them all, and TES games are not special snowflakes. If it works for everything ranging from Fallout to Deus Ex to Pool of Radiance to Gothic to Divnity OS... guess what... it'll work for TES. But, by all means, keep raging with your 'shut your mouth' and 'fuck off' petulant baby quips.

It worked well in Morrowind.

Not really.

 

[Excidium]

If it works for everything ranging from Fallout to Deus Ex to Pool of Radiance to Gothic to Divnity OS

Ok

 

[Metro]

Do you care to give a meaningful rebuttal or just more of your inane one-liners? See, this is how you shit post -- the last three or four responses from you have been utterly devoid of content.

 

[Excidium]

I am not your bloody teacher, hang out more in RPG discussion and you might learn some stuff on your own

 

[Metro]

No, I can't give a meaningful response.

Figured.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It worked well in Morrowind.

Not really, it actively encourages you to do clownish shit like bunnyhopping in Seyda Neen or letting mudcrabs poke your idle character while you go make a sandwich. What makes Morrowind's skill system tolerable are the trainers (which allow you to pay for the privilege of skipping that stuff, essentially turning all that useless money into XP points).

 

[Metro]

Which is even dumber since it allows you to progress via gold instead of actually doing stuff.

 

[Excidium]

I never needed to do any of that when I played the game

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You can choose not to do that stuff, but it doesn't change the fact the system rewards that behavior. Systems that encourage degenerate gameplay are broken and should be fixed.

 

[Lemming42]

Not really, it actively encourages you to do clownish shit like bunnyhopping in Seyda Neen or letting mudcrabs poke your idle character while you go make a sandwich. What makes Morrowind's skill system tolerable are the trainers (which allow you to pay for the privilege of skipping that stuff, essentially turning all that useless money into XP points).

If you play the game at a normal pace, your character usually levels up appropriately. I guess if you want to become godlike before leaving Seyda Neen you could just stand a let a mudcrab hit you.

I only used trainers for non-combat skills like Speechcraft which are basically impossible to advance naturally.

 

[Excidium]

You can choose not to do that stuff, but it doesn't change the fact the system rewards that behavior. Systems that encourage degenerate gameplay are broken and should be fixed.

So sayeth the wise Joshua E. Sawyer

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Sawyer memes are not a substitute for an argument

If you play the game at a normal pace, your character usually levels up appropriately. I guess if you want to become godlike before leaving Seyda Neen you could just stand a let a mudcrab hit you.

In other words, a character that plays through the game at a normal pace will be shittier than one that stands in place near some nuisance critter at the tutorial area.

Why are you people defending this system again?

 

[Excidium]

Why are you people defending this system again?

I defend it on principle, it's like people who complain about savescumming. If you just say it's shit I'll thumbs up and move on unless you suggest an equally horrible alternative that flares my autism

 

[Alexios]

Don't really see the point in this when OpenMW has infinitely higher potential and is making actual progress. It should be fun to see how awful the voice acting is, though.

 

[Commissar Draco]

You can choose not to do that stuff, but it doesn't change the fact the system rewards that behavior. Systems that encourage degenerate gameplay are broken and should be fixed.

Nothing degenerate in this; you do small quests in cities, save drakes and buy training with factions you enlisted too in order to survive more Xtreme encounters in more dangerous zones and bring more loot to finally and be able to fight bosses and git gut; beats killing dragons at level 2 every time.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yes, like I said the trainers allow you to skip the horrid raise-by-use system, I'm glad we agree on this.

I defend it on principle, it's like people who complain about savescumming. If you just say it's shit I'll thumbs up and move on unless you suggest an equally horrible alternative that flares my autism

The system must be really shitty if not even the people defending it are fans of the thing.

 

[Commissar Draco]

You don't skip you're just ain't gonna die while fighting without proper training; its far better system than I killed 5 rats I can do surgeries in Fallouts.

 

[Turjan]

Hopping is (or feels) faster than walking anyway

Which is actually the real reason why hopping was so popular.

 

[wwsd]

You don't skip you're just ain't gonna die while fighting without proper training; its far better system than I killed 5 rats I can do surgeries in Fallouts.

Which, we're being told in this thread, "works". Far be it from me to criticise Fallout, but if we're going to reduce a game (or at least its levelling system) to what you can do with it in the opening stages, then we can discount a lot of the classics. Improve your gambling or medicine skills by killing all the rats in the cave. Sure, that "works", just as long as you don't think about it too much.

I don't think the MW system is brilliant, but the logic seems clear enough to me. The main problem is that training is too easy, despite limitations like being unable to raise your skills above your stats. A better system would be JA2-style, where training is a continuous process that prevents your character from doing anything else. The rate at which you improve depends on the skill of the trainer. Instead of one sum per level, you pay per hour.

Then you're not training yourself to godlike levels, but instead you use it to just push you over the edge for that x5 for your next level-up, or to get that promotion in a guild, to get a decent chance at casting a spell, whatever. Make it an expensive investment in terms of money and time, so that it's only used for specific goals, rather than as a crutch.

 

[hakuroshi]

A part of the problem is that time is almost never a resource in games. Time spent running into walls or grinding the same respawning dungeon for xp is wasted players time, not chraracters. World can wait while you train or grind indefinitely.

 

[Excidium]

Goes really well with Bethesda's love for writing main quests full of apocalyptic urgency

 

[Turjan]

Goes really well with Bethesda's love for writing main quests full of apocalyptic urgency

But that isn't a problem with Morrowind, where the apocalypse is approaching, but not imminent. There is no urgency, which is one of the positive aspects of the game.