MGS2: SoL- Biggest gaming conjob/Visionary/arguably first postmodern vidya/Indocrination theory

[dunno lah]

POps would've been better with a PS2 controller. I can't believe how fucked up it is to have a the camera controls on the d-pad as default. Either that or the game should've used the classic top-down camera.

 

[Trotsky]

Offtop: I'm having a blast with Peace Walker but skipped Portable Ops, is the latter worth playing?

Portable Ops was the last decent Metal Gear game and a gem compared to the crap produced nowadays. The villain from Portable Ops is also rumored to be the antagonist in MGSV.

 

[dunno lah]

But Gene isn't Hungarian, is he?

 

[Jick Magger]

And Kojima's trying really hard to pretend Portable Ops didn't happen. Like, everything beyond just declaring it non-canon.

 

[J_C]

Portable Ops is not considered canon by Kojima because it wasn't his game. It was forced out on the PSP. Kojima didn't directed and written is, he was just the producer.

But Gene isn't Hungarian, is he?

Why would he be? :D

 

[Jick Magger]

Portable Ops is not considered canon by Kojima because it wasn't his game. It was forced out on the PSP. Kojima didn't directed and written is, he was just the producer.

But Gene isn't Hungarian, is he?

Why would he be? :D

It's not that he considers it non canon (he directly references it and the events that took place in it in MGS4), it's just that he kinda goes out of his way to try to ignore alot of what happened in it. The farthest he seems to go to admit that it happens is that something went down in San Hieronymo, it involved Big Boss (and possibly Kaz), and a direct consequence of it was Fox being disbanded, Ocelot obtaining the other half of the legacy, and Big Boss joining The Patriots briefly. Although even the last point is somewhat suspect, as Peace Walker creates the bizarre plot hole of Big Boss apparently not even knowing about his own past with The Patriots and Zero. The most he can muster to his defence when Paz literally explains his own backstory with Zero to him is a confused "Huh?".

So at worst, it's broad strokes. Though with Kojima it's honestly hard to tell.

 

[dunno lah]

http://mgsforums.com/blog/entry/4118118/4096/

I kinda like this guy's explanation of how POps fits in the canon.

 

[Jick Magger]

Here's Kojima's word on the matter. The main story of Portable Ops is canon, while the smaller details (such as possibly Gray Fox's inclusion, Sokolov surviving, RAXA being an actual Metal Gear, etc) are outside of the canon.

 

[dunno lah]

Sounds good to me. I finished POps 2 months ago and I wasn't fond of Gray Fox becoming a teenage supersoldier.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Portable Ops was the last decent Metal Gear game and a gem compared to the crap produced nowadays. The villain from Portable Ops is also rumored to be the antagonist in MGSV.

He? What's wrong with PW?

I almost finished it (unfortunately had to stop because of game-breaking bug in PPSSPP during Peace Walker Battle #2) and gameplay-wise is da best MGS, most realistic one (no anime shit like Vamp etc.) with FUN boss battles (ok, some of them are bulletspongefest a but once you get some better gunz they're a lot easier), especially the Cocoon one.

Story is extremely poor & stupid though.

POps would've been better with a PS2 controller. I can't believe how fucked up it is to have a the camera controls on the d-pad as default.

It won't be a problem for I'm gonna beat this shit with gamepad on PSP emulator.

 

[TedNugent]

Peacewalker was more playable than Portable Ops but the story was grating and idiotic. They bait you in with the voice of The Boss, but it turns out to be a red herring.

There was nothing of value in the Peacewalker story as far as Metal Gear canon and none of the characters were interesting. The audio logs are a chore to listen through, both poorly written and even more poorly acted. The 2D hand drawn cutscenes are worse than in Portable Ops.

The controls are a huge improvement over Portable Ops which was an awful attempt to shoehorn a dual-analog stick MGS3 control scheme onto the PSP which only has one analog stick and 2 shoulder buttons (as opposed to 4 on the Playstation 2). Portable Ops was a chore to play, but at least I felt like it was worth it in the end because of the huge revelations contained within (involving Revolver Ocelot, the origins of Gray Fox, the fate of the FOX unit), so it is a shame to see Kojima disown it.

 

[J_C]

Peacewalker was more playable than Portable Ops but the story was grating and idiotic. They bait you in with the voice of The Boss, but it turns out to be a red herring.

There was nothing of value in the Peacewalker story as far as Metal Gear canon

Except it is the prequel of the story of MGS V, and the 2 is closely connected. So bullllshiiiiiiit!

 

[TedNugent]

Peacewalker was more playable than Portable Ops but the story was grating and idiotic. They bait you in with the voice of The Boss, but it turns out to be a red herring.

There was nothing of value in the Peacewalker story as far as Metal Gear canon

Except it is the prequel of the story of MGS V, and the 2 is closely connected. So bullllshiiiiiiit!

Ground Zeroes is the prequel of the story of MGSV.

Spoiler

Everything that is carried over from Peacewalker to MGSV (Paz, Chico, and Outer Heaven) is immediately wiped out within an hour of you starting the game.

Peacewalker is a bunch of meandering nonsense about AI and mutually assured destruction theory. The characters are utterly irrelevant except for Kaz Miller who is playing a big part in MGSV, and the majority of their development will take place in MGSV anyway.

I've played every game in the series (MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGS: Portable Ops, MGS: Peacewalker, and MGSV: Ground Zeroes) and I would easily suggest MGS Peacewalker as the one that can most easily be cut out of the series without losing any understanding of the plot. In fact, I just finished Peacewalker mere days before I played Ground Zeroes, and I still had no idea what was going on.

SPOILER:

Spoiler

Outer Heaven is destroyed, Big Boss is left in a coma, Paz's guts explode from an implanted bomb as she jumps into the ocean, and Chico is rendered braindead within an hour and a half of MGSV: Ground Zeroes. Just Kojima cleaning up the trash. Shitty characters, that is.

Don't play Peacewalker. It's fuckin' retarded.

 

[J_C]

Peacewalker was more playable than Portable Ops but the story was grating and idiotic. They bait you in with the voice of The Boss, but it turns out to be a red herring.

There was nothing of value in the Peacewalker story as far as Metal Gear canon

Except it is the prequel of the story of MGS V, and the 2 is closely connected. So bullllshiiiiiiit!

Ground Zeroes is the prequel of the story of MGSV.

And PW is the prequel of both.

 

[Phage]

I really enjoyed MGS2.

The story really isn't that amazingly convoluted. You just have to actually pay attention to the codecs and keep in mind that perhaps not everything that occurred in the game was real. MGS2 was supposed to be the finale in the series according to Komema (though he seems to always say that about each metal gear)

Part of me kind of wishes the series ended at 2 so it could have had a greater historical impact before 4 tried to explain shit that really wasn't meant to be explained.

Oh well. DD Wolf companion in MGSV should be worth what could have been.

 

[Jick Magger]

PW does have Big Boss finally getting over The Boss' death. Namely, by just giving up on trying to discern her true motivations for deciding to go along with the CIA's plan to sacrifice herself, and decides once and for all that by doing so, she betrayed everything she ever believed in, herself, and him. PO has arguably the same thing, though the conclusion he reaches is arguably different (and less cynical). The game overall does establish Big Boss' shift into cynicism than Portable Ops did, though he's still an overall heroic character.

 

[Ninjerk]

What? The new MGS is shit now??
Explain bro, explain.
Snake Eater is my last MGS and I never follow the series again.

And yes the deep and convoluted stories and wacky theories could make people love or hate the game, but to be honest I never really put too much attention to them.
I want to be a Rambo and kick the enemy's elite team of badasses, and the nice story is just a bonus.
I'm just a sucker for one man army vs the whole enemies trope.

I'd love to play a decent Rambo/one man army stealth action game with MGS-esque gameplay even without all the complex stories and dramas.
I wonder why no one pitch that kind of game on the kickstarter...
PS2 graphix, low poly background textures, limited but dense game world, cool bosses, rudimentary AI patrols with MGS core mechanics, simple but tight story without all the MGS dramas, homo and porn shit.
Damn, I'll definitely back that one.

The fourth game has some pretty decent mechanical changes that it squanders by making the game mostly a movie. Incredibly lengthy cutscenes and stupid cyberninja bullshit wankery (e.g. killing giant mechs with katana held by his toes). Avoid.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Controls were fine and suited the 'dodge the cone' gameplay, it's just that the gameplay itself was pretty boring and repetitive, mostly consisting of running through the same grey corridors and orange catwalks on inane fetch quests and escort missions. Whenever you hear people praising the game (beyond parroting SuperBunnyHop and Matthewmatosis' analysis of the game), it's mostly due to the plot twists that're established in the final third of the story.

That's why I like MGS3 more; it's actually a fun game to play on top of having a pretty good story.

Is it true that MGS3 is the best one? Is it enjoyable as a standalone game that doesn't require me to sperg on the lore/plot from the other games?

 

[J_C]

Controls were fine and suited the 'dodge the cone' gameplay, it's just that the gameplay itself was pretty boring and repetitive, mostly consisting of running through the same grey corridors and orange catwalks on inane fetch quests and escort missions. Whenever you hear people praising the game (beyond parroting SuperBunnyHop and Matthewmatosis' analysis of the game), it's mostly due to the plot twists that're established in the final third of the story.

That's why I like MGS3 more; it's actually a fun game to play on top of having a pretty good story.

Is it true that MGS3 is the best one? Is it enjoyable as a standalone game that doesn't require me to sperg on the lore/plot from the other games?

MGS3 and MGS2 are still good, but MGS3 has a slight edge because of the protagonist. You can play it standalone, and you will understand it, although you get some more fun if you played the other ones. Mainly because MGS3 is a prequel, you will remember how some characters in MGS3 turned out later in the story.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Controls were fine and suited the 'dodge the cone' gameplay, it's just that the gameplay itself was pretty boring and repetitive, mostly consisting of running through the same grey corridors and orange catwalks on inane fetch quests and escort missions. Whenever you hear people praising the game (beyond parroting SuperBunnyHop and Matthewmatosis' analysis of the game), it's mostly due to the plot twists that're established in the final third of the story.

That's why I like MGS3 more; it's actually a fun game to play on top of having a pretty good story.

Is it true that MGS3 is the best one? Is it enjoyable as a standalone game that doesn't require me to sperg on the lore/plot from the other games?

MGS3 and MGS2 are still good, but MGS3 has a slight edge because of the protagonist. You can play it standalone, and you will understand it, although you get some more fun if you played the other ones. Mainly because MGS3 is a prequel, you will remember how some characters in MGS3 turned out later in the story.

I played MGS1 and spoiled the ending for MGS4 since I heard it was mostly movie time anyways.

 

[Ninjerk]

MGS3 is a game that should be played (even if you find yourself wondering sometimes why people don't just shoot each other more often).

 

[Jick Magger]

Only play MGS4 when you're done with everything else and feel like capping off the overall story. It does feel like a fan fiction sometimes, and it's pretty obvious playing that Kojima really did not enjoy writing about Solid Snake anymore, but it does have a few genuinely emotional and well-done bits scattered throughout.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

MGS3 is a great game, play it even if you don't play anything else in the series. In fact, it's the only one I've played except the first one, though I plan to get around to Peace Walker soon.

 

[TedNugent]

Is it true that MGS3 is the best one? Is it enjoyable as a standalone game that doesn't require me to sperg on the lore/plot from the other games?

MGS3's story is very comprehensible and the game very neatly ties a bow at the end of it.

It has the strongest pathos and quality gameplay with some of the strongest boss fights in the series (The End especially is worthy of memory).

It's the only one I would recommend to somebody who didn't play anything else in the series, plus it falls chronologically at the very start of the timeline, so if you wanted to play the rest of the games in the series (I don't know why the hell you would), it's the logical starting point.

 

[DrowningHarvey]

I played the MG, MG2 and MGS a long time ago and more or less enjoyed them back then. Recently acquired the HD Collection, mainly to check out MGS3, but for some reason started with MGS2.

Like many others, I liked MGS2’s themes that were revolving around control of information, digital censorship and using these as instruments of power. Sure, Kojima loves using sixteen words where two might do and at times the pacing goes haywire, but the theme was thought provoking and somewhat ahead of its time. Good for you, Hideo! MGS2 as Kojima’s jab at sequels is in interesting subject, but because of the whole ”You’re in a sequel now son!” skit the game feels lacking its own voice at most times. I played Metal Gear Solid roughly 15 years ago, but the Big Shell, Dead Cell, Solidus and Raiden all seemed pale imitations of their counterparts in MGS, with little character of their own. This was of course Kojima's intention at some level, but I doubt he meant the whole game to be this bland. The whole sequel commentary also seemed bit pointless as MGS already recycled many things from the original Metal Gear series and now they did it again in case some people missed it or never played the original NES games? Kojima, never go full metard.

I am glad that I finally finished the game, but I doubt I'll revisit it any time soon. If ever.

I’m currently playing MGS3 which seems to be shaping to be my favorite game in the series so far. Story seems compact (for Kojima), there are tiny details to be found and delicious animals to be tasted (or thrown at enemies). Cobra Unit as antagonists is much more memorable than Dead Cell. I guess it could be said that in general MGS3 just feels more like an actual game than Japanese developer's desperate cry of "Help, I am trapped in a sequel factory!". My biggest issue is that the whole CQC aspect seems bit pointless, as it is easier just to pop the enemies in the head with silenced tranquilizer pistol rather than risk the close encounter and alarm.