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Metal Gear Solid V coming to Steam

Roguey

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Josh Sawyer said:
I never got into mgs because I played splinter cell first and it's a much better game
i played chaos theory before MGS3. i started up MGS3 for a bit, thought, "wow this is a stealth game with a fixed third person camera", shut it off and never played it again.
No movable camera = no sale.
 

Martius

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I guess Sawyer tried first version which had camera similar to mgs1 and 2? Later there was re-release including improved camera.
 

J_C

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Movable camera is for popamoles. Like Sawyer and Roguey.
 
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Jick Magger

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The fixed camera was fine in MGS1 and 2, primarily because the environments were built specifically around the mechanic (i.e. urban environments with alot of narrow corridors) and you had a radar which'd fill you in on anything you were not able to see. It didn't work in MGS3 primarily because the change in environments (large open areas) and gameplay (no more soliton radar and a boost in enemy sight range) made it much more of a hindrance.

And it's really weird specifically because of how much attention Kojima and his team put into making the environments work with the fixed camera in MGS1 & 2, to the point where it's never much of a hindrance at all, and then look at MGS3 where it almost feels as though they slapped it in there at the last minute out of obligation.
 

80Maxwell08

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The fixed camera was fine in MGS1 and 2, primarily because the environments were built specifically around the mechanic (i.e. urban environments with alot of narrow corridors) and you had a radar which'd fill you in on anything you were not able to see. It didn't work in MGS3 primarily because the change in environments (large open areas) and gameplay (no more soliton radar and a boost in enemy sight range) made it much more of a hindrance.

And it's really weird specifically because of how much attention Kojima and his team put into making the environments work with the fixed camera in MGS1 & 2, to the point where it's never much of a hindrance at all, and then look at MGS3 where it almost feels as though they slapped it in there at the last minute out of obligation.
Weren't they trying to put the over the shoulder camera into MGS3 originally but they ran out of time so they had to recycle the old camera? That's how I've always heard what happened.
 

Menckenstein

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The remaster of 3 (Subsistence?) has a free rotating camera but I think you're still stuck on the vertical axis, can't remember.

I have a soft spot in my heart for these admittedly terrible games as my friends and I sat down and beat the first MGS over the course of a weekend and we were so sleep deprived going into the whole thing that the bizarre dialogue (long bullet sliding into a well-greased chamber) and psycho mantis fuckery had us losing our shit. It was fun.

MGS 2 was irredeemable though, what a piece of shit.
 

Perkel

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The remaster of 3 (Subsistence?) has a free rotating camera but I think you're still stuck on the vertical axis, can't remember.

I have a soft spot in my heart for these admittedly terrible games as my friends and I sat down and beat the first MGS over the course of a weekend and we were so sleep deprived going into the whole thing that the bizarre dialogue (long bullet sliding into a well-greased chamber) and psycho mantis fuckery had us losing our shit. It was fun.

MGS 2 was irredeemable though, what a piece of shit.

I played only Subsistence and yeah that version doesn't have fixed camera.

As someone who played all of them i must say that when you have fixed camera AND game designed to it... It plays much better. Problem is that sometimes those camera views are shitty.
 

7h30n

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But are there any examples where top down camera was good?

I can think only of: Metal Gear 1, 2, and Metal Gear Solid (and maybe 2, where both rely so much radar), Monaco and is that it?
 

WalmartJesus

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[Autism] -- Seeing how in Metal Gear 2, Miller was helping Snake out during Zanzibar and against Big Boss, I wonder if Kaz and Big Boss are gonna have a falling out during (or at the end) Phantom Pain. Or Kojima will do some retconning ..by eventually remaking the MSX Metal Gears.
 
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Trotsky

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Peacewalker was a crock of shit it's nowhere near the same league as MGS3 Snake Eater. It does have some highlights like Kaz and Chico but overall the story is awful and painfully stupid with 1970s technology surpassing the modern Metal Gear Solid era. MGS5 actually seems like the series is getting back on track again after the extremely disappointing Guns of the Patriots and the dreadful Peacewalker. I'm cautiously optimistic.

The first three Metal Gear Solid games were so well written because they had the same writers. One of the leading writers on par with Kojima left after MGS3 which explains the massive decline in quality. This excellent blog post explains everything.

http://outsideyourheaven.blogspot.com/2012/04/decline-of-anti-americanism-in-metal.html

Metal Gear Solid 3 was not only the best Metal Gear Solid game it's one of the best games ever made and perhaps the greatest Cold War story ever told. It was the apex of the series and there was nowhere to go but down after that which is why the series should have ended on a high note.
 

Trotsky

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MGS 2 was irredeemable though, what a piece of shit.

Sons of Liberty was ahead of it's time and an underrated game. It's true that the first and third games were better because the plot was conventional and wraps up well by the end but I have a soft spot for MGS2.

Guns of The Patriots was the irredeemable installment it destroyed everything cool about the series and made it into melodramtic nonsense even by Metal Gear standards. It also wrecked the supernatural aspect of the story with "nanomachine" drivel.
 

7h30n

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So in my quest of researching top down stealth, I guess it's time to try out MGS:Ghost Babel.
I didn't find Peace Walker that bad (Boss fights were horrible for me), but the main problem I had with the game was lack of higher difficulties and dumbed down AI. The game was rather fun to play (well I'm obviously sucker for any stealth game), but why oh why did they have to make it so easier than any game in the series.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The 2nd release and the HD releases of MGS3 have a free rotating camera.
 

Whisky

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So in my quest of researching top down stealth, I guess it's time to try out MGS:Ghost Babel.
I didn't find Peace Walker that bad (Boss fights were horrible for me), but the main problem I had with the game was lack of higher difficulties and dumbed down AI. The game was rather fun to play (well I'm obviously sucker for any stealth game), but why oh why did they have to make it so easier than any game in the series.

Ghost Babel is pretty damn good for a GBC stealth game.

There's one fucking boring puzzle involving box conveyor belts though.
 

7h30n

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So in my quest of researching top down stealth, I guess it's time to try out MGS:Ghost Babel.
I didn't find Peace Walker that bad (Boss fights were horrible for me), but the main problem I had with the game was lack of higher difficulties and dumbed down AI. The game was rather fun to play (well I'm obviously sucker for any stealth game), but why oh why did they have to make it so easier than any game in the series.

Ghost Babel is pretty damn good for a GBC stealth game.

There's one fucking boring puzzle involving box conveyor belts though.

Really? So far I feel it plays way too much like Metal Gear 2 (which was good) but I hoped they evolved the game - added new features.
I'm liking that stages feel open ended (at least for now).
 

J_C

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Peacewalker was a crock of shit it's nowhere near the same league as MGS3 Snake Eater. It does have some highlights like Kaz and Chico but overall the story is awful and painfully stupid with 1970s technology surpassing the modern Metal Gear Solid era.
You are full of shit. It is not in the same league as MGS3, but was a fucking good game.
 

dunno lah

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painfully stupid with 1970s technology surpassing the modern Metal Gear Solid era.

This is absolutely true though. I don't even want to imagine MG TX-55 AND MG D being redesigned retconned out of the series....
 

Akasen

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Yeah, it's very odd, bordering careless, that the designs of many mechs and tech really surpass that of Metal Gear 1 and 2. I mean, I understand they are products of their time and all, but those poor Metal Gear's seem like steps backwards in design rather than forwards. But I will always love you Metal Gear D.

Brings up an odd notion in universe: Why did the design suddenly go to shit and suddenly the LEGS of these things become the weakness? The super important parts of these mechs are also the weakness on a very devastating level it seems. Memories fuzzy if it actually was the legs or not.
 

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