Master of Orion 1+2

[Wintermute]

Small ships rock. Put your best bomb and a sub-space teleporter on a small ship. Build 1000+ of them. Teleport to planet, destroy bases on first turn. Teleport back to start, letting missiles follow, then teleport back to planet and destroy more bases. Repeat as needed and rarely take a scratch.

Smaller ships have the edge when it comes to initiative which is based on engine speed/manueverability (Inertial stabilizer/nullifier are a must!). If you can fire first, there may not be anybody left to fire second. They work best in the hands of the Alkari (better beam defense) and Mrrshan (better attack ratings)

 

[Emily]

hmm interesting, what about making a small early game evasion based small ships? I was thinking of doing like small fighters supported by a tanky battleship with auto rapair

 

[Wintermute]

The computer does tend to target small ships first, so put the best shields/ecms and the highest manueverability on the small ships that you can, even if it means sacrificing weapons. Let them dodge missiles/draw fire while the battleship mops up. Just be prepared to lose a lot. Small ships are easier to replace, though.

 

[Raapys]

In later years I've used tiny ships exclusively. There's that thing where non-streaming weapons can only kill one ship every round, which small and inexpensive ships benefit greatly from. With a good attack computer, your damage will be huge with a good weapon due to sheer numeric advantage. Mind though, tech level differences can still be a killer. If your def and attack computer sucks compared to theirs, you'll struggle no matter your design.

 

[Emily]

So there is no way to make AI attack the battleship?
I am thinking that a small ship should get a bonus to combat speed as well not just def now that it hink about it more

 

[TigerKnee]

MOO expert players (if any):
Does anyone get any use out of the plantetary reserve assuming both planets have no special advantages whatsoever? I'm thinking if there is some way for use it to gain an economic advantage

 

[whatevername]

hmm interesting, what about making a small early game evasion based small ships? I was thinking of doing like small fighters supported by a tanky battleship with auto rapair

MoO2: You fire the missiles and kite with small ships. You might take some damage in the first turn from mass drivers, lasers and fusion won't hit you. Building a battleship in early game will take you years and it explodes from 1-2 salvos fired by a mirv destroyer (this part is useless to AI though lol).

 

[Makabb]

How the heck beam weapons work in moo 2 ? I had 5-6 mass drivers on a ship and antarans attacked me and i couldn't do shit. Has to use missiles.

 

[octavius]

So I've now reached Master of Orion 2 on my chronological play list.

Anything I should know before playing, like bugs are things that are missing from the manual?

Any unoffical patches or mods?

What's the ranking of the default races from easiest to hardests?
I'd like to try them all, starting with the easiest one.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I actually would suggest custom making your class, but go with a race with higher research rates. Then try to take a race over with high construction rates, so you match up your higher research with a part of the galaxy where you can churn out more advanced ships. Playing a Psilon and taking over a few Silicoid planets can be all win. So can playing a Silicoid and taking over some research-based races.

Really you can win with any of the races, but I suppose the Gnolams and Alkari don't stand out as very dangerous. The Darlocks can be fun bastards.

 

[octavius]

I actually would suggest custom making your class, but go with a race with higher research rates.

I've read that the Creative trait makes the game too easy? And that overall the custom races are too unbalanced.

The Darlocks can be fun bastards.

My favourite game on MOO1 was winning a total victory with the Darlocks.

 

[TigerKnee]

Any unoffical patches or mods?

There are a couple but I don't think there's any consensus about which one to use because they all change the game drastically. There's no easy Kyrub-like patch that you should always use. I don't keep track of any of them since they're way after my time

I've read that the Creative trait makes the game too easy? And that overall the custom races are too unbalanced.

Only pre-patched - Creative got a nerf if you're playing the most recent patch that most people don't consider it that overpowering any more compared to other abilities you can pick up for the same price. Of course, the flip side Uncreative is a great way to turn any race into a challenge race (Klackons went from top tier in 1 to basically bottom tier in 2)

Any "optimized" Custom Race build is going to utterly stomp any of the defaults. If you haphazardly create a custom race though without intentionally trying to pick killer combos, you might still retain some challenge.

 

[Raapys]

Eh, best trait is by far that 'dont need food' thing for like 10 points. Frees up tons of workers and lets you expand non-stop. Add in the subterran thing which increases max pop and you're good to go. Not having creative is annoying, but the development rush you get more than makes up for it.

I think the reason custom is so good is generally because the negative traits you can pick are no loss at all. Less spying power and ground combat attack doesn't really matter. Even ship defense is of questionable use, due to the bonuses you get that will generally let you start combat.

 

[TigerKnee]

I think the reason custom is so good is generally because the negative traits you can pick are no loss at all. Less spying power and ground combat attack doesn't really matter. Even ship defense is of questionable use, due to the bonuses you get that will generally let you start combat.

Yeah, exactly - the default races aren't min-maxed hard and built mostly for flavour - for example, Silicoids has Repulsive which is actually a pretty bad disadvantage if you weren't playing multi-player against humans and their other abilities are a bit hap-hazard but a Custom Repulsive race would definitely push on the war abilities to make up for the disadvantage - who cares about diplomacy when you're strong enough to kill everything?

 

[Average Manatee]

With lots of AIs creative isn't a big deal and uncreative isn't too bad, you can simply trade for techs constantly. I'd actually rate Klackons as one of the better races if you can get contact with lots of races quickly. Industry is OP as fuck, only thing better than Klackons for that is Unification + Tolerant which is top-tier custom race land.

Now Repulsive + uncreative, that's hell.

The default races are definitely all pretty well balanced against each other. Humans are probably the best simply because Democracy + no real downsides.

 

[octavius]

The default races are definitely all pretty well balanced against each other. Humans are probably the best simply because Democracy + no real downsides.

But their leader is Fredrik "Bald Dickhead" Reinfeldt:

 

[TigerKnee]

Telepathic is stupid good in certain aggressive builds.

Elerians don't really take advantage of it though... as usual with the pre-designed races

 

[Average Manatee]

Umm, Telepath+Omniscient is the best rush combo. Even comes with Feudal for 1/3rd less ship costs and +ship defense/attack. As far as optimized builds go Elerian is actually pretty close to perfect (and can net easy wins on impossible if you're OK with being cheesy).

 

[octavius]

According to the manual

Low-G planets have a gravitational pull less than half that of the Earth
(1 G). The disorientation and increased number of accidents this
causes decrease the output of farmers, scientists, and workers
by 25%.

Does this also apply to races from Low-G homeworlds?

 

[Average Manatee]

You can't destroy any starbases with just 1 shitty cruiser armed with lasers/nuclear missiles so you'll grab some mostly useless planets with it. On the other hand an uber research race can build a MIRV nuke destroyer in ~20 turns and rape any starbase/battleship except Psilon's and then bomb their homeworlds.

Yeah, no you can't get MIRV that fast. And mind controling planets steals tech anyway. And blockades ruin your race anyway.

 

[Average Manatee]

Also I just checked and 1 MIRV nuke destroyer is nowhere near powerful enough to take out a starbase. If that were the case then 2 non-MIRV destroyers would be able to take out a starbase and you'd be screwed even harder.

24 turns including the time to research the tech? Yeah no. And blockads double the time for everything. You are familiar on how rushes work, right? They don't wait around for you to build up what you like

 

[Emily]

I think Master of orion 1 is much better game in my opinion. Especially playing against the AI.
Moo2 is just to easy to win,there are so many unbalanced shit. I can see what they were trying to do,but the AI cannot keep up. Especially if using advanced tactics like hit and run.


That is why i still play MOO1,the AI can actually pose a treat and kill you. Especially if you get a bad start and dont save scum

 

[Average Manatee]

Also I just checked and 1 MIRV nuke destroyer is nowhere near powerful enough to take out a starbase. If that were the case then 2 non-MIRV destroyers would be able to take out a starbase and you'd be screwed even harder.

24 turns including the time to research the tech? Yeah no. And blockads double the time for everything. You are familiar on how rushes work, right? They don't wait around for you to build up what you like

I dunno what you're checking there, you should check better http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/master-of-orion-remake-o.99703/page-2#post-3963768 Try like 6 non-MIRV destroyers. A starbase will need armor and shields to survive.

That's 70 turns in, not 24 turns, and somehow the AI has zero upgrades that affect their starbase? Heavy armor is a 150 RP tech, Tritanium is 250 RP yet somehow the AI hasn't researched them or traded for them at all (ai trades techs constantly)? I'm 99% sure you're playing some incredibly easy difficulty level, otherwise you have some radically unlikely circumstances. I just loaded up an impossible save around turn 50 and every AI I see has starbases with at least 360 armor/360 health and 5 shielding.

Statistically speaking a non-MIRV cruiser has quite a bit more firepower than a MIRV destroyer, and it takes only 2 non-MIRV destroyers to equal the damage of a MIRV destroyer. Which isn't a big deal when you realize that Feudal gives -33% ship costs and they can invest straight into production instead of research.

21 turns to research, 2 turns to partially build then buy. Give or take 1,2 turns for random completion of research when it sits at 100% You can't blockade a planet with a MIRV+Armored+ECCM+Fast nuclear misile destroyer in orbit with some weaksauce cruiser. Some AIs can't deal with a MIRV destroyer even after 200 turns.

You're clearly playing some easymode crap if a single destroyer can defeat any AI 200 turns in.

 

[Raghar]

200 turns inside is about 30 death stars in enemy fleet right?

 

[octavius]

Reading the MOO2 manual makes me wanna play MOO1...MOO2 sounds like it's much more micromanagement, smaller fleets and less fun. I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, I realized I was not quite finished with MOO1. I've won with all races on Hard, but on Impossible I've only won with Psilons and Klackons so far.