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Master of Magic: Starting out...

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Since I'm sure this forum is full of MoM pros and junkies, I'm going to ask for a couple of tips during the initial phase since I'm trying to figure out the optimal way of starting out:
  • First town build orders: what building or unit should I produce first, what second, what third, and so on?
  • First two units' orders: should they go out exploring? Are they strong enough to take any kind of neutral guards? Does patrolling a city offer any kind of bonus?
  • Mana allocation: 100% research, 100% pool, 100%, or a moderated combination? Research first and cast later, or cast first and research second?
  • Settlers: when and why?
  • Fielding an army: what's the fastest way? Summoning stuff? How do I get the MP to summon creatures early? Or using town-produced grunts is a better way?
  • Town rebels: fastest way of getting rid of them? How should I avoid them?
Since I'm sure you lot know your game, I'll ask for more stuff once you help me get past these doubts!
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
372
[*]First town build orders: what building or unit should I produce first, what second, what third, and so on?
For the initial town, the build order I usually start with is something along the lines of: Granary, Shrine, Marketplace, Farmer's Market, Library. This gets your population going as quickly as possible. Then I would probably get to work on my military. It does depend on what I've encountered in the mean time. If I'm on an island alone, I don't have to worry as much. But, if I've encountered another wizard, you'll need to really start working on your army.

[*]First two units' orders: should they go out exploring? Are they strong enough to take any kind of neutral guards? Does patrolling a city offer any kind of bonus?
I have them split up, and explore in different directions. Have them search for and explore points of interest (caves, dungeons, ruins, etc.); some are unguarded. Usually, they are not able to take on much by themselves, but you kind of have to experiment to find the relative strengths of the different units.

If you have high Sorcery, you probably have a chance against some neutral towns, if you are not on Myrror (the really brown plane), Generally, I find that one unit of Phantom Warriors can destroy one low level, melee unit of a neutral's army. Chaos can work well here, too, as Hell Hounds are surprisingly decent low level units - 2 movement, fire breath, and good hit points. Skeletons are virtually immune to non-magic missile attacks, so they can be useful there.

Two units (non-hero, non-summoned) can reduce unrest by one level, which effectively removes one rebel from a city. Other than that, and for defense against attackers, there isn't any bonus.

[*]Mana allocation: 100% research, 100% pool, 100%, or a moderated combination? Research first and cast later, or cast first and research second?
Unless I *really* need mana, I shift it all away from mana, and put it into research and skill. Usually its weighted a bit more toward research than skill. You can always use alchemy to create mana, which I've always found to be adequate. But, you can't ever 'buy' research or skill, so I try to hit it as hard as possible.

[*]Settlers: when and why?
If you've found a good location, its probably best to go as soon as possible, as long as you think you can defend it. Use the Surveyor (F1) to get more details on the benefits of each location, and to make sure you can build there. Cities must be more than a certain distance away from one another in order to be able to build.

Mostly I will create some once my initial town is fairly established. Probably around 8-10 population, where the number of turns required to create it is pretty low. I want to make sure I can defend my current towns, as well as the new one, if necessary.

[*]Fielding an army: what's the fastest way? Summoning stuff? How do I get the MP to summon creatures early? Or using town-produced grunts is a better way?
I usually wait to build up much of an army until I really need one. It mostly depends on your race and spell book choices. Good low-level racial units are:

- Halfling Slingers
- Gnoll Wolf Riders
- Elven Longbowmen
- Lizard Men Javelineers and Dragon Turtles
- Dark Elf Spearmen (all Dark Elves have a ranged attack)

While there are certain strategies for bringing out a strong, summoned unit early, summoning is generally a bit expensive at the beginning. However, a Magic Spirit scout can be very useful. They're low cost, fast (2 movement over any terrain), and can move over water. Have them search for unguarded points of interest, scout for neutral cities and wizards, etc. Some summons can be cast in combat, which can help bolster a weak stack.

Probably a quick way to generate mana is to up your tax rate and alchemy the gold into mana, and shift your resources to magic resource pool to mana. However, understand that not only do you have to pay the initial cost, but there's a mana upkeep as well. Dark Rituals can also create mana pretty fast. Some races (eg. Elves) also create mana based on their population.

Some heroes can also be good here. B'Shan, while statistically weak, is a Noble - no upkeep and generates 10 gold per turn. He pays for himself after 10 turns, and after that its just gravy. Spellcasting heroes add half their spellcasting skill to your skill when they are in your home town, which enables you to cast spells faster. Zaldron is a sage, which adds to your research. You can use the summon spell to call a hero and/or select the 'Famous' ability when creating your character to help bring in more heroes. A cheap tactic is to save your game just before completing the summon spell, and reload if you get one you don't want.

[*]Town rebels: fastest way of getting rid of them? How should I avoid them?
At the default tax level (1.0, as I recall), you will gain 1 rebel for every 5 population you have. The absolute fastest, but probably the worst in the long run, way to reduce unrest in all your cities is to reduce tax rate. Some rebels will probably disappear immediately, but your gold income will plummet.

Conquering neutral cities will invariably cause unrest in the conquered city. Each race has a relationship with each other race, which determines how well they get along. Dark Elves and Klackons are hated by everyone, and halflings get along well with pretty much all the others. You can raze a city when you first conquer it, if you don't want to deal with it. However, you are only given this option once, when the city is conquered (ie. you can't decide to do it later, unless you reconquer the city). Unless you're desperate for a city, if the city is in a bad location, or they're Klackon and you are not (which creates lots of unrest), I'd just raze it.

Probably the best, general solution is to create religious buildings (Shrines, Temples, Parthenons, Cathedrals); they remove one level of unrest, and provide mana. Not all races have the capability to build all of these, though. A few other buildings reduce unrest, as well. The Animist's Guild and Oracle, I believe. Some spells can reduce unrest (eg Just Cause, and the extremely overpowered Stream of Life), while some others can increase it (eg. Armageddon and a lot of Death spells).

A temporary solution is to create a Settler. Reducing a city's population removes the rebel, as it drops below the threshold where a rebel is created. Once the population goes back up, though, they will come back (unless you've done something in the meantime).

Also, as mentioned earlier, military units can reduce unrest, which can be a good way to handle it. Unless you need to defend the town against attacks, use the cheapest units available, as it doesn't matter which type you use.
 

Rabidredneck

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
303
For early exploration I like using magic spirits. they're fast, cheap, and reveal more of the map per movement than non-scout units.

All tips above apply.
 

Rabidredneck

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
303
I was poking around the net, and suprisingly it seems there are no additional fan patches beyond the stock 1.31 patch. I would have thought after all these years someone would have done some tinkering.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
372
Rabidredneck said:
I was poking around the net, and suprisingly it seems there are no additional fan patches beyond the stock 1.31 patch. I would have thought after all these years someone would have done some tinkering.
Yeah, I've looked around a bit before as well, but didn't find much either. I've been working on and off (mostly off, lately) on a Master of Magic-like, so I spent a lot of time trying to find whatever I could. Probably the closest I've found is a hack that lets you play multiplayer via a hot seat option.
 

AlaCarcuss

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
1,335
Location
BrizVegas, Australis Penal Colony
1eyedking said:
Since I'm sure this forum is full of MoM pros and junkies, I'm going to ask for a couple of tips during the initial phase since I'm trying to figure out the optimal way of starting out:
  • First town build orders: what building or unit should I produce first, what second, what third, and so on?
  • First two units' orders: should they go out exploring? Are they strong enough to take any kind of neutral guards? Does patrolling a city offer any kind of bonus?
  • Mana allocation: 100% research, 100% pool, 100%, or a moderated combination? Research first and cast later, or cast first and research second?
  • Settlers: when and why?
  • Fielding an army: what's the fastest way? Summoning stuff? How do I get the MP to summon creatures early? Or using town-produced grunts is a better way?
  • Town rebels: fastest way of getting rid of them? How should I avoid them?
Since I'm sure you lot know your game, I'll ask for more stuff once you help me get past these doubts!

Oh man, I'm so glad you started this thread.

I fired up MoM for the first time the other night and after my eyes adjusted to the 1" square pixel size on my monitor - I was like - "ok what now?" :D
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Warrax is a great hero. Expensive but pure pwnage (except for the ubersummon, of course).

Also you'll feel good for having a "Grandfather of Russian Satanism" as a playable hero!

http://warrax.net/
:)
 

Chork

Scholar
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
123
Location
Alberta
If you haven't downloaded the manual & spellbook, you should. Lots of important details in them, especially the section on how combat works.

A lot of how the game plays is based on what you take for your wizard. Without knowing what you're playing as it's hard to give more detailed advice.

If you want a really easy time, take Warlord + Alchemist, put the rest into Life, and pick halflings. Make a stack of slingers, enchant them, and watch as they demolish just about everything in their path.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Chork said:
If you haven't downloaded the manual & spellbook, you should. Lots of important details in them, especially the section on how combat works.

A lot of how the game plays is based on what you take for your wizard. Without knowing what you're playing as it's hard to give more detailed advice.

If you want a really easy time, take Warlord + Alchemist, put the rest into Life, and pick halflings. Make a stack of slingers, enchant them, and watch as they demolish just about everything in their path.
Shit, this game's a cheese...
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Gimme a new way to play MoM.

Whenever I go back to it, which is once every 3-4 years, this is my basic strategy which is now hell of boring:

1) Use a sprite* to scout around and take neutral towns. Hope to meet enemy wizards and trade for the lesser create item spell (if not playing with artificer, which I like to do).

* You can use a magic spirit or guardian spirit if you didn't take two nature books, but they usually can't take anything but the smallest neutral towns even if you're able to support them with mana-efficient spells like phantom warriors, confusion, weakness, etc.

2) Keep your banked gold over 100 gp and start making an item with pathfinding or flying and some +movement. Recruit the first hero that shows up. Cast heroism on it if you have two white books and put the item on it. If you can give him some summoned escorts, do so - hellhounds work really well. Have it take more neutral towns and get in easy fights to raise level and, if very lucky, pick up more items somewhere. All gold should be converted to mana and turned into items to stick on the hero. Stay away from enemy wizards - the relationship meter goes from relaxed to shit in an instant on impossible if you're close to their cities. If you do get in a war, hopefully you have enough items and levels on the hero for it to manage.

3) Acquire summon champion, keep recasting it until you get one of the badass ones, switch all the items onto it and break the game with a guy that can move twenty tiles a turn and take out a full garrison without taking any damage. Win when you get bored.

I almost never build any normal units besides spearmen and hardly use non-combat summons at all after the early game. The only exception is wraiths and to a lesser extent ghouls, which are good garrison factories via their undead creation trick.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,018
Try runemaster + artificer, and crank out lots of nice equipment for cheap. Send your heroes off to single handedly destroy cities and lairs, dumping all your gold into city improvements and getting your mana from the slider. You don't need to research, it doesn't unlock new equips. Once you get a really nice hero (Lucky trait or one of the champions is a must) makes the most expensive overpowered set you can manage. + to hit on weapons, + def on everything you can, and whatever miscellaneus crap you have access to, depending on where you left your points.

Zomg: You're missing out on all the fun magic that you can use once you know how the game works. Try playing a game with 7 or more sorcery or death books (alchemy will help a ton) Conquer cities with summoned creatures and dump a lot of points into skill. Enchant either your summons or some elite units or a hero with your crazier spells (Flight, haste, wraithform). When you finally happen upon create artifact, you'll have access to the most insane items possible (Unless you modded the game default ones like I did, and added impossible crap like a Holy Avenger Lifedraining Haste Lightning sword) and hopefully a big enough empire to make the insane mana required for them. Or you could just crank out some more storm giants or sky dragons or whatever the fuck you have available. Going with pure death is fun because you can get the death knight for your champion, and he has some crazy powers, pretty much doesn't even need equipment, except for the stat boost) Other fun possibilities include flying nightblades, regenerating paladins, and conquering a large portion of the early game with no upkeep zombies made by summoning ghouls and having them kill units with the support of black sleep or weaken. Channeller is a great pick for having fun battles and winning fights you shouldn't stand a chance in.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
Is it just me or are the Shadow Demons rather overpowered? Their ranged attack is very decent, they regenerate in combat, have immunities to basically everything, they rise from the dead as long as you win the battle, they have flying, they can move through the other plane, etc.

Pretty much the one and only weakness they have is the 1 movement speed.
 

ever

Scholar
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
886
This game is broken

Play as Orc, start with 11 sorcery books and some trait that gives you heaps of mana/skill, call yourself mr. magic and pick oberon as your portrait, get wind mastery and flight, tech up to battleships cast wind mastery and then cast flight on all your battleships

You've won the game.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Pretty much all versions of the 11-book start have something brokenish you can do. It's much more of a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" game than a tightly balanced and polished 4x. It holds up pretty well considering how many genuinely unique means there are to playing and how many dozens of Magic the Gathering synergies Simtex left lying around.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,018
Raapys said:
Is it just me or are the Shadow Demons rather overpowered? Their ranged attack is very decent, they regenerate in combat, have immunities to basically everything, they rise from the dead as long as you win the battle, they have flying, they can move through the other plane, etc.

Pretty much the one and only weakness they have is the 1 movement speed.

I can't remember what it is exactly, but I know they have a fatal weakpoint of some sort. I don't have their stats handy to be able to pick it out though. I think it has something to do with the way they attack or a vulnerability to an element or two and low hp/defense. For such an expensive unit they are very glass cannonish.

Pretty much the only uber units are the champion class heroes and sky drakes. Halfling slingers with 3 levels they shouldn't be able to get and adamant weapons are a close second. (But even they'll fail miserably versus a hero with 20+ shields, lucky and invulnerability.)

It occurs to me that MoM would transition excellently into an RTS, or 4x/RTS hybrid. All those spells are begging to be cast in real time. Most importantly, it would open up multiplayer as a real option.
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
Rabidredneck said:
I was poking around the net, and suprisingly it seems there are no additional fan patches beyond the stock 1.31 patch. I would have thought after all these years someone would have done some tinkering.

There is one, called MoM 2.00.
It is a well-thought fan patch, made by some "Aureus" guy. It's a lot of work, it sidesteps the biggest problems (and some bugs) in the game. He also added several new spells and tried to balance the races a little bit. In my opinion, it increases the enjoyment and the replay value of the original quite a lot.

Because the patch creates more competitive units, the game is apparently harder than before. The AI is not smarter, just has fewer possibilities to do something totally wrong.

The guy released it this year along with a 70-page PDF reference documentation. :wink:
(I think you don't have to read it, maybe just a few lines from the beginning that explain the general nature of changes and ennumerate the biggest issues)


The patch can be found HERE
 

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