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Mass Effect Mass Effect Series Retrospective by Shamus Young

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,852
The graphics are fine. The visuals are shit. Compare to Jade Empire: poorer graphics but much better visuals, which means the game still looks good.
Bullshit, graphics are fine, aesthetically speaking they do their job representing a futuristic setting, that looks like it came out of a 90s show.

Plenty of dialog that made no difference whatsoever to the plot. The quests were still perfectly linear, and only involved shooting your way through a bunch of mobs and occasionally picking a lock.
But i quoted quests that didnt involve any shooting whatsoever, and there are more than a few quests with different outcomes. So yeah, you are outright lying here.

The fact that you cite a sidequest that consisted of three dialogs as an example of a good one says a lot about their overall quality.
I cited starting sidequests which are easier to remember. I did like the one that had you defusing a nuke, or the one where you get ambushed and after fighting husks have to fight bandits in the open world for example.
How the fuck is this so?

Its true tho, especially for asari, where you get a lot of insights into their race trough completely different characters, like liara, her mother, the consort. Its also true for turians showing their warlike and discipled nature, with garrus, and some captains and commanders involved in some quests. It makes it quite clear what you can expect from them while keeping them fairly distinct. for example you have septimus, a petty has been that became a liar and a drunk due to a broken heart, it did a good job at giving some depth to the members of each race. Salarians werent that developed in the game, but their logical nature is made clear, they are mostly shown as scientists but they have their own warriors as you can see how they make war when you meet a captain of theirs at virmire, how they they think and are organized, all in a very organic way.
And lets not forget krogans, that at first are one note, but you have wrex to show you some actual depth and a bit of nuance to them.

It was a shit minigame, and endlessly repetitive.
Except that it was skippable.

You get all of them in a single playthrough, just not on one character, and since you can command your party to use them as if they were yours, it makes no difference. Maxed-out Singularity is a Win button. Explosive Ammo on a sniper rifle is a Win button. There are others.
Except that they arent, especially on the higher difficulties when you cant actually kill anything in one shot.

The combat is only challenging because character control is so unresponsive. There's ridiculous lag between clicking the fire button and actually firing, and sticking automatically to cover makes it highly frustrating to move when you're getting swamped. ME2 improved both of these aspects tremendously.
What the fuck dude, is it challenging or isnt it challenging, are there Win buttons or arent there? you are all over the place. I guess its easy when its convenient for your argument and hard when it isnt.
I never found the combat unresponsive tho, i found it shit with a weapon you hadnt at least put some points into, but thats standard for rpgs. weapons you have no skill with feel like shit, weapons you are a master of feel like it does on normal shooters where you play rambo.

Indeed, if execution is decent.
And it was, or itd be at the very least an argument if you bothered to give exampels instead of saying "this trope is bad because its a trope"

Nah, it barely registers in the general mediocrity of the thing.
Nope, its constant and annoying. you get prompts of inventory full all the time, and you need to destroy the shit out of enough stuff to arm a small army. kinda like poe did, its just that poe made it unlimited.

It's just one of those things that don't make sense. Like, you know, no living space anywhere in those places, just a warehouse sitting bang in the middle of a hostile planet, full of fully-armed mercs expecting an invasion.
There are living spaces, you just cannot access them because they werent implemented, there are plenty of locked doors. The architecture isnt wrong, its just one of those things that can only be solved with more content.

Yes, you've made it clear that you're not bothered by a quite a number of things.
Because they are not bothersome. like the font of the fucking game? thats what brings down your experience?

Hoho, but its true. the game forces you to make an assumption. and that assumption is that testimonies can be faked, recordings recovered from a geth cant. Its not even that it makes no sense, it just isnt explained.

The Spectres are supposed to be the Council's right hand, operating above and beyond the law. And the Council is just going to appoint a human who's made it clear he thinks the Council are a bunch of alien fuckwits out to keep humans down? Your standards of "make sense" are... interesting.
How did you make clear the council is a bunch of alien fuckwits? this never happened to me.

Apologist much?
Dude, we are talking about a games font, and its probably one of the biggest faults youve found in the game. Its beyond stupid.

In the middle of a snowstorm when they can't even go out? (And no, it's clear that the snowstorm wouldn't have stopped the Normandy from dropping off the Mako. It does it with no problems on planets with worse environments.)
"A privately-chartered colony world, the planet is owned by Noveria Development Corporation holding company. The NDC is funded by investment capital from two dozen high technology development firms, and administrated by an Executive Board representing their interests.

The investors built remote hot labs in isolated locations across Noveria's surface. These facilities are used for research too dangerous or controversial to be performed elsewhere, as Noveria is technically not part of Citadel space and therefore exempt from Council law."

Ostensibly the council would have been in more than a bit of trouble if they broke into the territory of some of the richest people in the galaxy. This is made perfectly clear in the game btw. so im guessing you are too stupid to remember.

Inveting pseudoscientific babble to cover science magic is standard space opera. The problem is if you're presented with something that looks and feels familiar, like a projectile weapon that goes "Bang!" and behaves to all intents and purposes like a pistol, shotgun, assault rifle, or sniper rifle, but then behaves jarringly differently in one particular way. It was a bad idea, and another one they fixed in ME2 and 3.
I dont think it was fixed, it felt shittier to have to reload, managing your rate of fire was far more interesting and taxing than simply reloading and worrying about ammo conservation in a game thats littered with ammo. It also felt more CoD than space opera.

Which is a pretty fucking huge, whatsit, ludo-narrative dissonance right there.
How is this true? you never see a weapon factory in fallout 2, you only see gun dealers. You never see a painkiller factory in max payne, you just see the product. This is normal and natural in games, not something necesary unless you are making a open world sandbox, which ME isnt. You are looking for a flaw where none exists.

That is a valid criticism of P:E. Good for you, you finally managed to make one.
No dude, dont be fucking retarded, it is not needed to show you where people shit in a game. it isnt relevant. It may be some desirable attention to detail but it isnt a valid criticism.

Let me see if I can fix this:

"its fairly entertaining, and its not meant to be original, It is a take on isometric party-based fantasy RPG's of the 90s, that feel permeates from everything in the game. It does have tedious parts, but even great rpgs like new vegas feature those, it comes with the lenght" -- Pillars, of course. Good to see you're finally coming round!
Misinterpreting much? i was talking about ME after saying that your own criticism was more fitting for eternity.


It's OK Lhynn I love you anyway. :love:
Fuck off you halfwit. Come with a decently constructed argument for once in your life. When you are not lying and manipulating you outright exagerate flaws for the sake of your argument, you are a fucking fake and you suck. All to exploit the deserved hate bioware has earned in these forums.
 
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RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
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Messages
28,396
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Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Update 4th of May
Mass Effect 3 controller support is released. A little bit buggy but it's out at least.
Here

UPDATE 26th of April (See bottom of post)

Since originally posting the thread the creator "Moonshine" has reopened his IndieGoGo Campaign to get the mods for Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 3

Mass Effect Controller Support IndieGoGo Note: Campaign does not currently support paypal. He is considering opening it up to Paypal support but has been burned in the past.

Why should I care
If you don't play mass effect or have an aversion to controller support then you won't However if you do care about mass effect and like controller support then it's important to understand that this might be the only way to ever play Mass Effect Trilogy on PC with a controller*

What about pinnacle game profiler/xpadder
Those utilities work fine but this mods outclasses them in every possible way. First it's free (unlike pinnacle) secondly it ports the Powers/Combat Wheel from console version to PC which is perfect for for controllers and no amount of button mapping is going to fix they janky PC interface.

Why should I be donating
It's a tough one, I feel the guy deserves it to be honest. Many have tried to do something similar but no one has cracked it yet until Moonshine, Additionally you are not funding controller support specifically you are funding a new laptop for this guy. Which is beneficial regardless. Finally this isn't hacked together support. Its complete. Controller vibration, Button Prompts etc. The real deal.

Let me see
iq8odeycmvme5emqai6p.jpg

20150213040917-ScreenShot00021.jpg

20150213040554-ScreenShot00041.jpg


Releases

Mass Effect 2
The file and instructions can be found Here

Huge credit to moonshine @ me3explorer.freeforums.org for this hard work which is literally years in the waiting/making.

Resident Gaffer: Gojeran recorded some gameplay Here

UPDATE
Moonshine has a new laptop and is working away on ME1 and ME3 support, ME3 support is expected soon.

Update from Moonshine
The funds reached my bank account today. I'll be ordering the laptop this afternoon, and hopefully should have it tomorrow (friday at the latest). So yay, finally, we're sort of here now. We've gotten to the finish line, kinda. By this time next week, if all goes to plan, there will have been an ME3 release. I look forward to finally being able to share it with you all.

(03-24-2015, 07:20 AM)
Quote

#5
Hopefully, someday, they'll remember about KoTOR II
'Maybe the lead on the PC porting team was a hardcore PC master race zealot who hated all things console related with a vengeance.
Either that or programming the UI such that it automatically switches between two UIs was inconceivable to them, so they ripped the controller one out, maybe believing it could speed things up somehow.'
:deathclaw: FML
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
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Messages
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MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
The biggest problem specific to ME1 is that Saren is a dial-a-villain rental placard (runner-up place is attempting to have Space Cthulhu as a bad guy TELL YOU that you cannot understand it).

With Saren though, the thing is that I don't think it'd have been that hard to make Saren work without changing much else about the game. Roll with me here on this brief list of changes I'd make:

- Remove Niktus or whoever the filler Turian Spectre was at the start. Instead, Saren's the guy doing the evaluation.
- You aren't told that Saren's always been a fishy guy and so on. Instead, focus should be on that Saren used to be an idealist (this still needs to be shown, however, so the persuasion-suicide solution makes sense). That is, until...
- Key thing to notice when you meet Saren in person is that you first encounter him IN A WHEELCHAIR. Saren's getting old, and he's lost one of his legs, his other eye is gone, and his right arm is maimed to the point of uselessness.
- It's quickly established that Saren is a space racist against humans, due to the cause of his invalidity. It's also clear that having lived half his species' lifespan and his physical handicaps are an extreme strain on his ego (say, by showing him struggle moving during the evaluation with a prosthetic leg, but refusing help and in fact being angered by it).
- We now have a primary hook set up for why he has become indoctrinated and has willingly activated Sovereign in the first place.
- Saren gets his cybernetic limbs and eye after using Eden Prime beacon as instructed by Sovereign.
- Sovereign never speaks, ever, during the entire game. Only unintelligible sounds (ie, distorted whalesong). However, Shep's dialogue choices still indicate that he understands it.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Oh boy, another Mass Effect thread! Finally the demon monkeys that live in my mane will have their voices heard! Mass Effect 1 is the worst game ever made and Mass Effect 2 is superior and here's a detailed list of why this is so! Actually, nevermind. I'm too old for this shit.

I subscribe to Vaarna_Aarne's ideas. He's a bright young lad.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
- Sovereign never speaks, ever, during the entire game. Only unintelligible sounds (ie, distorted whalesong). However, Shep's dialogue choices still indicate that he understands it.

I was with you until this. What the fuck? Grunty unintelligeble whalesong guy is doing an evaluation on you and becomes the main villain? It would be like the wookiees/aliens in KOTOR but even worse.
 

Eirikur

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,126
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
The best part about Mass Effect was when I learned a new German expression: Ich hab's im Urin.

Just as British and American people might feel something in their gut, Germans feel it in their urine.

Untitled.png
 

Ash_Firelord

Educated
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
80
Saren had its flaws (he was basically Space Sarevok, right?) but he was millions of times better than bug-man from ME2 and Evil Inc CEO from ME3. :P

Also, he had cool theme music.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,443
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=28229

Mass Effect Retrospective 10: The Cull of Cthulhu
splash800_masseffect1.jpg

As we shoot our way through Saren’s base, we stumble on another beacon. We get another vision. After that’s over, we bump into Sovereign for the first time.

Sovereign and the Reapers


me1_sovereign1.jpg



The H.P. Lovecraft influences are very clear here. We’ve got old gods, sleeping. Lots of tentacles. Getting near them drives you mad. And if they wake from their sleeping they will end the world. They’re served by cults (indoctrinated) and opposing them means looking for dangerous Old Knowledge.

It creates a very compelling question in the minds of the audience: Why would something this intelligent do something this horrific and destructive? Now we have this burning question in the backs of our minds. We can assume the Reapers are acting on knowledge or understanding that we don’t have, and it’s natural to want to unravel that mystery as we look for a way to survive. And there’s always the hope that if we could learn why they reaped, we would also learn how to stop the reaping.

Yes, ideas like this are decades old for people who read novels. I’m sure Mass Effect cribbed from a lot of classic books to build this story. Titles like Fire upon the Deep[1] are lurking inside the Mass Effect 1 DNA. Stories that try to convey the terrifying scale of a galaxy, and just how vastly outclassed homo sapiens would be if we tried to deal with creatures that operate on those sorts of physical and temporal scales.

But while this sort of stuff is old-hat to the folks with a dusty bookcase covered with dog-eared paperbacks with pictures of spaceships and planets on the cover, it might as well be a completely original idea to the vast majority of the people who played Mass Effect. Videogames don’t do a lot of sci-fi, and when they do, it’s usually a straightforward “shoot the bug-faced guys” type deal. And when it isn’t, it’s usually a strategy game. This kind of thing hasn’t been done in the context of shootin’ dudes and dialog wheels, despite the fact that I think it’s a really natural fit. No, you can’t get a Vernor Vinge sized universe into something as action-oriented as Mass Effect, but you can skim the best ideas and package them around shooting sections and character beats, and glue it together with a solid set of codex entries.


me1_sovereign2.jpg



But this blending of genres creates a certain tension in our story. We’re mixing Lovecraft horror with Trekky sci-fi, and they have different ways of resolving mysteries. In Lovecraft, the Old Ones need to remain mysterious or they fall apart. If Cthulhu had some sort of discernible motivation – like, if he just personally disliked humans – he would stop being so terrifying. He would just be a great big sleepy jerk. If it was personal, then it would make Cthulhu seem more like a person, and that wouldn’t just ruin him, it would ruin the entire world built around him.

On the other hand, we usually explore sci-fi to answer questions. Just like we expect our murder mysteries to conclude with an explanation of whodunnit, we expect our details-first sci-fi to explain what all the fuss was about. Consider the origin of V’ger in Star Trek the motion picture. It would have been a pretty big disappointment Kirk and company just blew up V’Ger and flew away without telling us what it was all about[2]. Same goes for understanding the purpose of the probe in the TNG episode Inner Light[3]. Yes, Picard was in danger. But the push of the narrative wasn’t just to save him, it was to understand whyhe was in danger and what was happening to him. That’s what made the payoff at the end so potent.

So Mass Effect needed to choose which of its parents it was going to follow. It could follow Lovecraft and leave the Reapers an unknowable mystery, ending with the hopeless feeling that we’ve only delayed our inevitable doom to a later generation, and that we’ll never be able to understand the nature of the Reapers. Or it could have followed Asimov[4] and presented us with a thought experiment and a puzzle, and then offered a final answer to unwind the mystery. Note that this latter option is a lot like a murder mystery: It needs to “click” into place as a satisfying explanation of what came before, a eureka moment that falls neatly into the narrative and answers the questions posed by the story itself.

It’s obviously way too early to talk about the ending, but I want to point out that the question of “Should the motivations of the Reapers be revealed to the audience?” wasn’t at all clear in the beginning. It could easily have gone either way.

The conversation with Sovereign makes it sound like this story ought to go for a Lovecraft conclusion, but the presence and nature of our loyal, curious, intelligent, courageous companions suggests the story would be more suited to a space-mystery. The adversaries are Lovecraft, but the characters and sub-plots are are Roddenberry et al.

Saren Fight


me1_virmire5.jpg



Here is something that game developers are still struggling with. In your traditional three-act story, somewhere in act two you need the hero to fight the villain. They need to fight the bad guy, and they need to lose. This establishes the power of our antagonist and raises the stakes for the final confrontation in act three. It gives our villain a chance to trade dialog with our hero so their conflict can be more personal, and it’s a chance for the writers to help us get to know our villain.

This is a problem in videogames, because gameplay doesn’t usually allow for you to lose a fight. A “lose state” is usually synonymous with “game over”, which is synonymous with “the player character died or failed in some way that makes their eventual victory impossible”. As the writer, you need a very particular outcome, which is for the player to lose, but not die. How can you make this happen in a game built around fights to the death?

  1. Do it in a cutscene. Players hate when you take control away from them and make them lose. It’s bad enough when you take control away from them and make them watch a cutscene, but it’s even worse when you make them watch a cutscene where their avatar gets his or her ass kicked. And it’s even more frustrating when you make them watch a cutscene of a fight that they feel they could win if you weren’t “cheating”.
  2. Do it in gameplay. Just make the fight un-winnable. This is harder than it sounds. If you give the bad guy a million hit points, then some enterprising player will practice until they can cheese their way through the entire fight. So you need to make the bad guy actually invincible, at which point the player is even more pissed off than in the previous scenario, because you’re still cheating, but now you’re making them “work” for their failure by obliging them to participate in a sham rigged fight. Also, now you need to explain why the bad guy is no longer invincible at the end of the story. Also you need to contrive an excuse for why the bad guy lets them live at the end of the fight. Sure, you can come up with the excuse like, “He’s just toying with you.” But that excuse doesn’t work for every bad guy. So then after cheating to make the player lose, you have to cheat some more to prevent the bad guy from killing them. The player realizes they have no agency here and you’re basically back to making a cutscene, except this one doesn’t have cool cinematography and music cues.
  3. Make a story that can adapt to the player defeating the bad guy early. I’m not going to say that’s impossible, but I will say it doesn’t sound like a solution that can be generalized for story-driven games. You can do this, but you’re no longer talking about making a BioWare or Obsidian style game.
  4. Have a boss fight the player can win, then have the bad guy leave in a cutscene. This sucks, but it seems to be the least bad of all our options. It still feels pretty cheap to the player. They can see they’re going to empty the villain’s HP bar before their own HP bar runs out. The fight demonstrates that they’re strong enough to beat the bad guy, which means this doesn’t quite achieve the goal of raising the stakes. And in the end, you’ve still got them losing in a cutscene.
  5. Make a cutscene and make the player pass quicktime events to get through it. This is actually the worst of all the possibilities. This has all the problems of doing it in a cutscene, except the player can’t see what’s going on or follow the action because they’re staring at a fixed point on the screen, playing the most unsatisfying minigame ever invented. And if they bungle a quicktime, they have to watch the cutscene again, thus turning the story into a means of punishment. Worse, cutscenes lose their emotional impact with repeated viewings, meaning this solution destroys both the story and the gameplay. Worst of all, quicktime events punish the wrong people. The “story first” casuals are the ones most likely to fail at these again and again, even though they’re not here for a challenge are rarely complain when things are too easy.

    Meanwhile, the hardcore crowd are the ones who have the colors and shapes of the inputs all memorized, and can reflexively reach up the moment they see a triangle and right when they see a circle[5]. They’re here for a challenge, and for them this is nothing like a challenge.


    You’re challenging the people here for the story and boring the people here for a challenge. The outcome is binary, there are no interesting decisions to make, and the mechanics are completely divorced from all the other systems in the game. Please stop making quicktime events. You’ve had over a decade to study this. You should know better by now.


me1_saren2.jpg



The best way to smooth this over is to put some good dialog in there. Players are less likely to get angry at having control taken away if the result is that our two leads can trade some banter. This Saren chat gives us a really interesting look into his character and motivations.

Note all the things that don’t happen in this encounter. Saren doesn’t steal something from you. Or kill a squad mate. Or destroy something you’re trying to protect. The point of this encounter is to build Saren up in a narrative sense. Saren gets the better of Shepard in a fight to demonstrate his power, but Shepard breaks free with some old-fashioned fisticuffs, thus showing that Shepard isn’t passive in this scene. The fight concludes without a clear winner and the story goes on. The fight was also built up properly. We’re in Saren’s base, and it’s reasonable to expect we might bump into him here.

Imagine how frustrating it would be if Saren had popped out of a random side room on the Citadel and swiped a plot item directly from Shepard before escaping by simply running out of the frame. How did he get onto the Citadel when he’s a fugitive? How did he know we’d be in this exact location? How did he know we had this item? Why didn’t he use this surprise attack to kill Shepard and then take the item from his corpse? Why can’t I chase him down? You could hand-wave away any and all of these objections. Saren is a super-spy, and is probably capable of infiltrating the Citadel if he needs to. But in a movie it’s generally accepted that if a bad guy does something really implausible, you at least have to depict how they pulled it off and not leave the audience to fill in the event with fan-fiction. If the author reveals the bad guy’s careful planning, it makes the bad guy seem clever and resourceful, which makes opposing him more exciting. If the author doesn’t, then the bad guy comes off as unremarkable and their actions come off as authorial “cheating”.



me1_saren3.jpg



What I’m saying is that cutscene fights are a fragile point where the movie-story is crudely attached to the game-story, and the designer needs to be scrupulously careful about what happens during these encounters. The bigger the villain’s victory, the more carefully their actions need to be portrayed, because the player is going to resent when control is stolen from them. Their player character needs to take actions that are acceptable to them, the villain needs to do things that obey the established rules, and the whole thing should have some sort of emotional payoff to justify (to the player) the loss of their input.

It’s WAY too soon to talk about Kai Leng yet, but I do want folks to remember this encounter when we get to Mass Effect 3.
 
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Prime Junta

Guest
They already nixed the Cthulhu option in ME1 by having Sovereign give that derpy OUR MOTIVATIONS ARE BEYOND YOUR FEEBLE HUMAN COMPREHENSION villain speech. Cthulhu doesn't talk. He devours souls and spreads madness through his alien dreams.

Better writers could have gone with that, just leaving the Reapers to be the Reapers with motivations no better defined than "when the stars are right." Oh well.

To be fair, very few sci-fi authors have done this type of thing well. They can almost never resist the temptation to make the Big Reveal which usually just turns something terrifying into "Oh, well." Even a top-tier guy like Alastair Reynolds keeps doing it. In the Revelation Space cycle, the Inhibitors are fucking scary, until he tells us why they're doing what they're doing which is almost as dumb as ME3. His attempt in the Poseidon's Children series is only a little bit better. That's why HPL remains so fucking cool.
 

Naveen

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
1,115
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I hated, HATED, Mass Effect 1. And just because of that scene, the Reapers and its nonsensical plot. Except for the music, which is amazing, the Reaper (and then Saren's) conversation was retarded. I also wanted to scream at Saren that his idiotic plan didn't make sense: (1) Space Giant Bugs are going to kill us, there is nothing we can do, (2) I'll join them to help them do it,so perhaps they'll spare us, for that reason I'll create various armies and help them open some magical portal so they can invade the galaxy because they are trapped outside... (3) Which of course invalidates point 1, since if "there is nothing we can do" were true, they would not need my help to devour us, but it seems they need a lot of help. (4) I'm helping a non-unstoppable foe that actually needs help so it can become unstopable, and then they will spare me, somehow. I congratulate the Reapers to be able to push that bullshit into Saren's mind, but I hated that I could not point it out.

In fact, Prey (2006) has a more believable "Reaper" enemy, since they/it/she/... are just cosmic farmers. No, it's worse, freaking Serious Sam has a better villain since Mental has Reaper-like qualities (humanity awoke him by travelling to the stars).
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
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Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Saren had its flaws (he was basically Space Sarevok, right?) but he was millions of times better than bug-man from ME2 and Evil Inc CEO from ME3. :P
I know I just got back here after a hiatus and the world doesn't revolve entirely around me, keyword being entirely, but it feels like this thread is trying to bait me. It must be some sort of mental horse illness that I can look at a statement like that with such disgust and utter hatred. Harbinger (who pulled the strings of the Collectors, aka the bugmen, Torr) and The Illusive Man both completely shits on Saren and Sovereign, and are essentially what S&S should have been in Mass Effect 1 if ME1 wasn't such a blatant waste of space in virtually every department.

Now say something about how you liked the mako. I fucking dare you, motherfucker.

Naveen said:
In fact, Prey (2006) has a more believable "Reaper" enemy, since they/it/she/... are just cosmic farmers. No, it's worse, freaking Serious Sam has a better villain since Mental has Reaper-like qualities (humanity awoke him by travelling to the stars).
Reapers is incredibly easy to get right as long as your writer doesn't try to act smart. You have a retarded concept: literally living spaceships that come out from dark space every 50,000 years to kill 90% of all life in the universe for mysterious reasons. Stop trying to think of a good reason for this. Stupid problem -> stupid answer.

It's one of the reasons why I like Mass Effect 2 so much. There's a game that knows EXACTLY what it is. And it provides the series with an excellent cheesy way out in regards to the Reaper conundrum: they're just reproducing. Yes, that's right. Every 50,000 years it's "mating season" and they leave their dark scary basement to go shopping for ingredients to make new Reapers. Problem is, they don't have cocks and pussies. And because they're half-synthetic they need organic goo as well as machine stuff to build new Reapers. So off they go every 50,000 years to harvest 90% of all life in the universe. Then they make the new Reapers and they go back down into their creepy dark space basement to wait another 50,000 years until its time for another booty call.

But no, let's go with "we have to kill everything so organics won't make synthetics that kills all organics and synthetics". The most retarded form of peacekeeping ever, aside from anything Bono has ever tried to accomplish.
 
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Deleted member 7219

Guest
I know I just got back here after a hiatus and the world doesn't revolve entirely around me, keyword being entirely, but it feels like this thread is trying to bait me. It must be some sort of mental horse illness that I can look at a statement like that with such disgust and utter hatred. Harbinger (who pulled the strings of the Collectors, aka the bugmen, Torr) and The Illusive Man both completely shits on Saren and Sovereign, and are essentially what S&S should have been in Mass Effect 1 if ME1 wasn't such a blatant waste of space in virtually every department.

Now say something about how you liked the mako. I fucking dare you, motherfucker.


Reapers is incredibly easy to get right as long as your writer doesn't try to act smart. You have a retarded concept: literally living spaceships that come out from dark space every 50,000 years to kill 90% of all life in the universe for mysterious reasons. Stop trying to think of a good reason for this. Stupid problem -> stupid answer.

It's one of the reasons why I like Mass Effect 2 so much. There's a game that knows EXACTLY what it is. And it provides the series with an excellent cheesy way out in regards to the Reaper conundrum: they're just reproducing. Yes, that's right. Every 50,000 years it's "mating season" and they leave their dark scary basement to go shopping for ingredients to make new Reapers. Problem is, they don't have cocks and pussies. And because they're half-synthetic they need organic goo as well as machine stuff to build new Reapers. So off they go every 50,000 years to harvest 90% of all life in the universe. Then they make the new Reapers and they go back down into their creepy dark space basement to wait another 50,000 years until its time for another booty call.

But no, let's go with "we have to kill everything so organics won't make synthetics that kills all organics and synthetics". The most retarded form of peacekeeping ever, aside from anything Bono has ever tried to accomplish.

You're such a good horse.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
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Messages
9,852
I hated, HATED, Mass Effect 1. And just because of that scene, the Reapers and its nonsensical plot. Except for the music, which is amazing, the Reaper (and then Saren's) conversation was retarded. I also wanted to scream at Saren that his idiotic plan didn't make sense: (1) Space Giant Bugs are going to kill us, there is nothing we can do, (2) I'll join them to help them do it,so perhaps they'll spare us, for that reason I'll create various armies and help them open some magical portal so they can invade the galaxy because they are trapped outside... (3) Which of course invalidates point 1, since if "there is nothing we can do" were true, they would not need my help to devour us, but it seems they need a lot of help. (4) I'm helping a non-unstoppable foe that actually needs help so it can become unstopable, and then they will spare me, somehow. I congratulate the Reapers to be able to push that bullshit into Saren's mind, but I hated that I could not point it out.

In fact, Prey (2006) has a more believable "Reaper" enemy, since they/it/she/... are just cosmic farmers. No, it's worse, freaking Serious Sam has a better villain since Mental has Reaper-like qualities (humanity awoke him by travelling to the stars).

But this is all wrong you retarded monkey, its stablished the reapers will be invading, sooner or later. The only thing you did in mass effect 1 is delay them. In mass effect 2 you mostly fucked around, it was a brainless piece of shit with decent popamole mechanics until they remembered they needed an actual plot related to the overarching story so they gave it to us in the form of arrival dlc, which delayed the reaper menace further. The series culminates the sheer retardation that is ME3 where no one is ready and shepard saving the entire universe 2 times was rendered moot.

The way the first game ended, the second game should have been about preparation, gathering allies, etc. And the third game should have been an outright war, now with reaper tech and able to stand their ground against the reaper. Because unlike the other cycles this time shepard managed to give the galaxy time.

Instead we got this piece of shit mess.
 

Andyman Messiah

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Messages
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Narnia
But this is all wrong you retarded monkey, its stablished the reapers will be invading, sooner or later. The only thing you did in mass effect 1 is delay them. In mass effect 2 you mostly fucked around, it was a brainless piece of shit with decent popamole mechanics until they remembered they needed an actual plot related to the overarching story so they gave it to us in the form of arrival dlc, which delayed the reaper menace further. The series culminates the sheer retardation that is ME3 where no one is ready and shepard saving the entire universe 2 times was rendered moot.

The way the first game ended, the second game should have been about preparation, gathering allies, etc. And the third game should have been an outright war, now with reaper tech and able to stand their ground against the reaper. Because unlike the other cycles this time shepard managed to give the galaxy time.

Instead we got this piece of shit mess.
sgph0l.jpg

I thought I could escape my past.

*triggered*


57dzc.jpg
OOOOOH MYYYYYY!!! IT'S THE BEAST!!! THE CONQUEROR!!! THE BEAST IS HERE!!!

*rant about how you're a retard and Mass Effect 2 is the best game in the world and also you should hang yourself*
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
This time, I'll talk about how I'd change the Reapers besides the first game's Sovereign only communicating via what sounds like synth whalesong:

- First off, the motivation and backstory for Reapers in ME3 is the very worst part in the entire series, not even a contest there, so this is going to need the most work:
1) Nobody built the first Reaper. Somebody became the first Reaper out of a desire to achieve what he'd call "ascended state of being".
2) This naturally involved making lots of gooey paste of itself, followed by the singular Reaper consciousness formulating that preservation of the height of each species culture will require wiping the slate clean so it can later return to create additional copies of itself based on future civilizations by fusing their combined genetic information and data into a single frame. Each Reaper past the first is like a Godzilla version of Human Genome Project.
3) As such, each cycle (BECAUSE EACH PRIOR CYCLE HAD A SINGLE DOMINANT SPECIES) produces exactly on Reaper, and each of them regards itself as an irreplaceable final evolutionary stage of its species and culture.
4) The process for what's done in each cycle is essentially: Everyone is turned to soup or killed. Everyone besides the soup is unnecessary and presents a danger to future evolution of life elsewhere in the galaxy (and thus additional Reapers), so they need to recycled back to raw materials. Naturally, Geth are super-fucked since they can't be turned to soup (but on the other hand, Geth mass consciousness is a set up for explaining the much more complex biological mass consciousness of each individual Reaper).
- So, we now have established what a Reaper is and how they are made. How many are there in ME3 when they finally show up? I'd say between 12 (lol13 and also suitable boss fight quota for Shep to EXTREME) and at most 25. A few of them is cool, a lot of them is lame.
- There is no dumb bullshit AI, or a dumb bullshit superweapon. Only Shep's EXTREME can save the galaxy and rally the warriors of diversity.
- Reapers "live" in Dark Space because their fundamental purpose as the supposed final stage of evolution is to be able to survive past the Heat Death of the Universe. Insert mumbo jumbo about Mass Effect fields ignoring free energy of thermodynamics.
- Each Reaper has an outer shell frame like Sovereign based around the original, Leviathan of Dis, with the actual Reaper itself smaller inside it. This naturally serves as for a suitably sized boss fight for Shep to EXTREME.
- The Reaper mass consciousness is a confused, highly erratic thing. The technology they were made with provides patterns that adapt and repeat, but ultimately Reapers are flavoured copies of the original.
- The cycles have been a "blind" process for a long while now, as Leviathan of Dis was "killed" at unspecified cycle.
- Illusive Man has been trying to fuse with Leviathan of Dis, intending to reach personal enlightenment and ascension.
- Information is provided by archaeologists, scientists, and speculation. All Reapers communicate via synth whalesong that only Shep can understand. Except Leviathan/Illusive Man, who has a singular voice instead of a chorus of millions locked in perpetual confusion.
- Shep always has the nuke gun besides his other guns, because it is the only weapon that is truly EXTREME enough for Shep.
- Shep will say "I'M YOUR DESTRUCTION THROUGH ASCENSION" while using some prepostrously huge fully automatic gun to climb up a Reaper.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Anything anyone says about the Reapers is conjecture at this point. We don't know what the fuck the Reapers were about other than the retarded shit given to us at the end of Mass Effect 3. Nothing was revealed about them in ME1 and ME2 other than the fact that they were evil, they were coming, and they had some connection to the Protheans.

Andyman Messiah is right. I would say that trying to make sense out of the Reapers is like trying to make sense out of a three year old's scrawls on a piece of paper. You're not going to get anywhere, you are just making up stuff, and you look fucking stupid doing it.
 

yes plz

Arcane
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Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Didn't one of the ME3 DLCs reveal their origins or some shit? I think it involved the alien race that originally made them or something along those lines.
 

Animal

Savant
Shitposter
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Jun 26, 2015
Messages
384
Daaaiiummn....

Didn't know Mass Effect had story study groups!


Btw, the reapers were AI that, at the end of a cycle, reaped organic life, archived it and rebooted it. Apparently, failure to do so would result in AI vs Organic wars and all would be fucked. Pretty simple, no?
 
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Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,852
Yeap, they didnt need to be explained or understood in any way. They just needed to be horror and destruction coming for you and everyone you care about, an inevitability.
Shepard talking to the reaper in ME1 was just your usual retarded lack of subtlety on biowares part. You literally needed nothing more. ME2 could have explored horror themes as you learned how to fight them, with the info you got from sovereigns corpse, meanwhile you had to unite the galaxy to fce the coming threat that everyone in the galaxy was already aware of because of the ending of ME1. So you probably could have some of the best parts of ME2 and 3 in one game, leaving all the boring shit on the side and only focusing on the stupid but fun parts.

In ME3 the main gameplay should probably be destroying reapers with the acquired tech while being able to rely on allies to hold systems, slowly watching people you knew from old games in the series die or suffer wounds that would take them out of the battle. If it wanted to go for personal development it should have gone with shepard getting slowly indoctrinated, with shepard and the player themselves knowing this. The options to tell others this in dialogue could be greyed out and in reaper language and so the player would have no choice but go on, knowing that their every breath is a betrayal. Trying to make the most out of a very bad situation where the stakes are at the highest theyve ever been.

Unno, something more engaging and interesting than this crap.
 

Animal

Savant
Shitposter
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
384
You guise set your standards for games' stories way too high...

I thought it was a fun ride, in the same sense some competent nice looking sci fi movie is. It's a space opera, complete with save the universe (galaxy) and get the girl (guy/alien).

I mean, go nitpick any action sci fi movie or tv show and there's a truck load of stupid crap in them as well.

Now, if we want some thought provoking deep shit, well then yes, it doesn't deliver much of that. But hey, the new Star Trek movies don't either...
 

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