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Marathoning Might and Magic games

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
I've been trying to make myself play every Ultima, Wizardry and M&M game from the first to last for like, four years now.
Well, I've gotta start one day, and I've decided that that day is tomorrow (or the day after it, depending on when i finish with my work). In other words, summer is on, gayiz!

Now, I played a bit (really, just a bit) of M&M 3 and M&M 4, and I've played shit ton of M&M7 and M&M8. I've also been a big fan of HoMM series, playing tons of 2, 3 and 4 (I dont care what anybody says, HoMM4 is a good game. Not nearly as great as HoMM3, vastly different, but still good). I've also played 5, but no NWC - no HoMM/MM, so that doesn't count.

Now, I'm thinking of playing all the games chronologically, with Heroes games thrown in for some variety, so I don't burn out so fast. Any tips, advice, good sites with item/class/map information, etc. Is this good idea at all? Also, how much do Heroes games offer to the story? And, I've gotta ask, is M&M 1 worth it? It just looks really clunky, and god damn old. Graphics wise, M&M 2 is right up my alley, but M&M 1 is just... Well, you know, too god damn hideous. It looks even worse than bloody Kings Quest 1.

Oh well, go ahead guys, enlighten me with wisdom, and burn me with the flame of righteousness since I think M&M 1 is hideous, while I haven't played most of the classic M&M games.
 

pippin

Guest
M&M 1 has no automap, so if that bothers you you might left it behind and start with 2. 2 is much more inviting imo.
There's a bit of a mess when it comes to Homm2, 3 and MM6 when it comes to story. I'm not very clear on how it works but I've read people have been really dedicated to order the story in a proper chronological order.

The gog versions come with cluebooks and you have grid cartographer if you think mapping to be a bit of a chore though. I played just a bit of mm1 long time ago to give you relevant advice.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Bjørgvin
MM1 is definitely worth playing IMO, at least if you don't mind making your own maps (or use online maps) and want combat that is much better than the dumbed down combat in MM3-5. But it's brutal in the beginning. But so is MM2 in the beginning, and even more so if you don't import a party from MM1.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
Online maps it is.

Didn't know MM2 allows party importing. I'm definitively going to play M&M1 then. Now, how the hell am i actually gonna play it? Should i get one of those collections which include it? No way in hell I'm gonna play the NES port.
 

pippin

Guest
GOG sells a pack containing the first 6 MM games.
That's the easier option, imo. Also, wasn't one of the early mm games included in the weird "import a party from another game" thing that was going on in some Bards Tale/Hillsfar/Ultima 3 games?
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,392
Location
Swedish Empire
Online maps it is.

Didn't know MM2 allows party importing. I'm definitively going to play M&M1 then. Now, how the hell am i actually gonna play it? Should i get one of those collections which include it? No way in hell I'm gonna play the NES port.

Yeah, but it stops there, they had planned for importing party into MM3 too, but the scrapped it somewhere along the line.

GOG sells a pack containing the first 6 MM games.
That's the easier option, imo. Also, wasn't one of the early mm games included in the weird "import a party from another game" thing that was going on in some Bards Tale/Hillsfar/Ultima 3 games?

I think it was more that they used the same sort of import system/engine or something, ive read about it but i cant remember.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
d "import a party from another game" thing that was going on in some Bards Tale/Hillsfar/Ultima 3 games?

Oh god, I remember reading something about that insanity. Can some truec0dexXxer share sum knowledge about it? How the hell was it supposed to work?

And gwah, shucks that you can't import into M&M 3. Importing save games is a powerful tool, shame almost no games use that mechanism today. Except for magnificent Banner Saga, and even more magnificent Mass Effect. Then again, Banner Sagas are so awfully short, that all three games would form a single average game in length, so I don't know does it count.

Mass Effect does it masterfully tho. It even allows you to pick the color of your C&C during the ending. +M

EDIT - Just remembered that Banner Saga devs are ex-Bioware. Oh, the irony.
 

pippin

Guest
Well it wouldn't be so shocking if it was just party based rpgs but Hillsfar was more of a collection of minigames in which you only used one character. I remember there was that option because Hillsfar was included there, it truly stands out both in paper and in execution.

The funny thing is that most of those games were made by different companies. There would be lawsuits up the ass if they tried that today.

I think Wizardry changed your starting location and not just items and stats if you imported a party. It was 7 to 8 iirc.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
I think Wizardry changed your starting location and not just items and stats if you imported a party. It was 7 to 8 iirc.

Yup, that's true, I remember reading about it. Depends on who you align with during 7 if i remember correctly. Three different starting locations I think.
 

Mustawd

Guest
You can get a collection from GOG.
Agree about NES; that's like playing a crippled version.


Can someone be kind enough to shed some more light on this? I was actually planning on playing the NES version because the gfx are much nicer. Is there a big difference in gameplay?

If so, what are your opinions on the Wizardry ports to the SNES? Similar?
 
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index.php

Arcane
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
875
I just started playing the mac version of m&m1 and so far I'm really liking it. It has pretty good graphics and a nice, fully mouse controlled interface which works well even on touch screen devices.

2djz2tl.jpg
 

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Anytown, USA
I just started playing the mac version of m&m1 and so far I'm really liking it. It has pretty good graphics and a nice, fully mouse controlled interface which works well even on touch screen devices.

2djz2tl.jpg
Wait. How do you get old Mac versions of games to work on modern touchscreen devices?
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Bjørgvin
You can get a collection from GOG.
Agree about NES; that's like playing a crippled version.


Can someone be kind enough to shed some more light on this? I was actually planning on playing the NES version because the gfx are much nicer. Is there a big difference in gameplay?

If so, what are your opinions on the Wizardry ports to the SNES? Similar?

First of all, everything the American part of Nintendo ever dealth with is heavily censored.
I don't think the Nintendo version of MM2 look much, if any, better than the DOS version myself.

For Wizardry 1-5 EDIT: only 5 (I thinkt) here are censored American (S)NES version with nice graphics. There's also a Japanese uncensored remake of Wiz 1-3 called Llylgamyn Saga with nice graphic (incredibly enough anime free), but some of the levels are redesigned. Crooked Bee made an exellent LP of the Llylgamyn Saga.
 
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index.php

Arcane
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
875
Wait. How do you get old Mac versions of games to work on modern touchscreen devices?

Download Mini vMac from the Play Store.

Download the Might and Magic 1 & 2 Mini vMac Package package from here: http://www.oldgames.sk/en/download.php?filedownload=8903

Create a directory on your SD card and name it minivmac

Extract the archive into the minivmac folder.

Rename System Startup to System Startup.dsk

Start Mini vMac and insert the System Startup disk then the game disk


If the emulator is too slow, try disabling scaling in the settings
 

Kea

Novice
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
27
Can someone be kind enough to shed some more light on this? I was actually planning on playing the NES version because the gfx are much nicer. Is there a big difference in gameplay?

If so, what are your opinions on the Wizardry ports to the SNES? Similar?

In terms of design, the NES version of MM1 has slightly modified maps and some changes to combat that end up making it easier; there were some new music tracks added for dungeons and battles; and it features a rudimentary automap that fills in so long as you have a light active. Unfortunately this version has serious defects: you can't create your starting characters but must reroll them at a room in Sorpigal Inn instead, which is clunky and opaque in the way it works - you can't review rolled stats until you've finished creating the character, for instance. The NES version also lacks the autobattle function of the computer versions, or if it has it I couldn't find it. But worst of all is the control scheme: it's horrible. The NES pad only has two buttons (four if you count start+select), but MM1 has a lot of different actions you can perform at any time, which leads to you having to navigate through multiple menus to perform simple tasks. Even looking at a character's stats requires three screens to display. Doing anything more than moving and fighting takes way too long. You'll be much better off with the Apple-II, or really any of the home computer versions, even if the graphics aren't as nice.

The (Japanese) Wizardry SNES port of 1-3 is thankfully much better, at least from what I've played from Wiz 1 & 2. They control about as fluidly as the originals, maybe a little moreso. Wiz 1 has new layouts for floors 6-8, and Wiz 2 redesigned the early floors so that you can complete the game without a transfer party from Wiz 1; though transferring parties between games is very simple. I'd recommend it along with the translation patch for spell descriptions.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Now, how the hell am i actually gonna play it?
You bring shame to that "rus" part of your name. Check local abandonware sites. Use Dosbox, of course.


Oh god, I remember reading something about that insanity. Can some truec0dexXxer share sum knowledge about it? How the hell was it supposed to work?
In M&M2 it's more gimmick than useful tool. End party from M&M1 is complete newbies compared to middle-level party in this game. It's power gaming ahoy. Also there was a catch, but I can't remember it. Or it was after converting Bard's Tale to Dragon Wars?


Yup, that's true, I remember reading about it. Depends on who you align with during 7 if i remember correctly. Three different starting locations I think.
Can't remember about 8, but it was definitely several starting locations when you converted 6 to 7. Next to Ukpyr, Nyctalinth and somewhere else.

Fowyr said:
I found bug with experience overflow in the PC version of M&M1. You should be careful when getting reward for lord's quests. If your current experience less or equal than 65535 and sum of your experience and lord's reward more than 65535 - things get nasty. Loss of the 65k exp is the pretty brutal.

Fowyr said:
Travelling from Sorpigal to Erliquin is very easy if you stay to the road. Path from Erliquin to Portsmith is easy too. Try to find Merchant pass in the area north of Sorpigal and start doing Lord's quests. After your Sorcerer gains Fly, you may travel to Dusk. Also I repeat myself

Fowyr said:
Regarding M&M1
1. There is unguarded chest in the C2
2. You may kill bunch of Caryatids for 400 xp for everyone, they defending path to B2.
3. Make you way to Erliquinn, try to complete lord's quests on the way. First quests in the South Blackridge (sp) castle pretty easy, requiring only visiting cities.
4. Fast way to any city - teleport in Sorpigal, fast way back to Sorpigal- Fly spell.
5. Increase agility and speed under Dusk, shrine in this dungeon have good items.

You don't need to fight in the Portsmith to finish quest (you gain it later), you may deliver scroll to Erliquin without fights too.

Don't forget Ctrl-A key for quick combat.

Also Sceptic.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
Now, how the hell am i actually gonna play it?
You bring shame to that "rus" part of your name. Check local abandonware sites. Use Dosbox, of course.

Didn't know there was a Dosbox compatible version :oops: Thought it had to be either a part of a collection, NES, or Apple.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Didn't know there was a Dosbox compatible version :oops: Thought it had to be either a part of a collection, NES, or Apple.
All DOS programs are of course "DOSBox compatible". Just mount and run. Frankly, it probably works fine without DOSBox. You don't need that M&M1 intro after all.
 

Watser

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
1,865,075
Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Currently doing the same thing with M&M and Wizardry myself, I'm at WoX and Wiz IV. You should definitely play M&M I, especially if you enjoy combat just a little bit because combat in MM III + WoX is just mindblowingly boring and in MM II encounters has been scaled up to the extreme having up to 250 or 255 monsters usually consisting of trash mobs. MM I and MM II are so far my favourite in the series.

In the end I would probably rate MM I higher than II because combat is tighter and level- and stat gain really felt like it had a massive impact whereas in MM II everything got bloated. Exploration wise I think they are about the same, though I remember I's dungeons to be much more interesting than II's and only being able to save in town really added to the suspense and feeling of adventure compared to being able to save everywhere in the second game. There are class "quests" in II which I thought was really cool though; each character has to accomplish a certain task in order to 'ascend' or something (you get a + and a nice boost). These quests has to be done with the specific class alone in the party but you are allowed to bring thieves with you, most of them were quite fun like cleric's and sorcerer's qust.

I would highly recommend making your own maps, it's part of the adventure to get lost and not knowing what is waiting for you. I can highly recommend Grid Cartographer if you don't want to do it by hand.
You don't need that M&M1 intro after all.
What is this heresy? Being greeted by the characteristic, cheerful tune when booting MM I is ideal for setting the mood for adventure and untold riches and dangers as you go out into the wild, far away from a safe haven.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,871
Divinity: Original Sin
How did I miss this. Thank you for tagging me Fowyr.

Now, I'm thinking of playing all the games chronologically, with Heroes games thrown in for some variety, so I don't burn out so fast. Any tips, advice, good sites with item/class/map information, etc. Is this good idea at all? Also, how much do Heroes games offer to the story? And, I've gotta ask, is M&M 1 worth it? It just looks really clunky, and god damn old. Graphics wise, M&M 2 is right up my alley, but M&M 1 is just... Well, you know, too god damn hideous.
I've done an M&M/HOMM marathon ages ago and had a fuckton of fun with it. I made an order list some time ago though I keep redoing it because it's bloody hard to fit some of the HOMM expansions in there. Anyway if you want to play all the NWC games that'd be a fun way to go through them, slot in PoL (right after HOMM2) and the HOMM4 expansions at the end if you want to be as completist as possible. HOMM games do fill in the story as outlined in the list, you don't miss a lot since relevant events will be referenced in the next M&M game anyway but it's fun to do it yourself (and the Chronicles provide a ton of background lore). MM1 is great and fuck you if you don't like it, graphics are fine (at least in EGA; make sure that's the case) and several of its aspects are as good or better than any other game in the series (I still rate puzzles and exploration as THE best of 1-5, same for combat).

Making your own maps is a good part of the fun in MM1. If you HAVE to use online maps, get ones that are completely unmarked. Zipping by from one marked location of interest to the other in an exploration-focused game is kinda pointless. Also, if the save game system is too hardcore for you, you can use DOSBox save states.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
How did I miss this. Thank you for tagging me Fowyr...

Awesome, tyvm for the list. Now, I think I'm gonna play them in the order they came out, but that list is certainly gonna help me out, a lot. Now, just to be clear, EGA is the original Apple version, right? The images that pop out of google are nothing to write home about, but the screenshot the nice sir above posted looks pretty good. And yes, I'm def not gonna skip the first one, wouldn't do it anyway prolly, got a bad case of OCD.
 
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