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Making a Darkest Dungeon inspired RPG with more in depth mechanics

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
I'm making it in Unity/C#

Figured I'd post about it here, if anyone is interested in following or perhaps collaborating in some regard (coders and artists would be most needed). I'm just going to mostly copy paste the summary I posted on gamedev dot net classifieds.

I have a design doc I can share,. I am only going over some of mechanics in this post, with focus on combat rather than campaign, as combat is the core of the game (even if the campaign/base building will be decently involved).

Like said in the title, the game is inspired by Darkest Dungeon, but aspiring for deeper and more varied combat/campaign mechanics.

Theme: the player controls a party of raiders that go on missions, getting loot, building up reputation and experience, etc. These missions would often be populated areas like towns and forts, but also could be caves, forests, and other settings.

The player will control a party of 6 characters. Changing group formation and individual character positions will be an essential part of strategy for all party compositions. However, most characters will still be in melee combat, as often the party will be fighting off enemies from both sides (just less often from the rear).

Characters, both friendly and enemy, will be able to die or be severely injured in one hit, and no magical healing available. However they will be able to dodge or deflect most attacks until they run out of "stamina", at which point they become sluggish and easier to kill. So gameplay wise, stamina behaves sort of like the regenerating shield in halo. However if the player makes a tactical error or puts a character in a situation where they are outmatched, characters could still be wounded even at full stamina. So individual battles are not the only threat, but also tiring from waves of enemies.

The player's group can rest when needed, but that will allow the enemies to ready their defenses or get reinforcements. So speed and smart stamina management is encouraged. Although, there will be some level of variety in approach, the player could have a more heavily armored team that slogs through tougher fights, or a lightly armored quick characters for a fast team that relies more on the element of surprise.

Weapon and armor choices for each character will be significant strategic decisions, based on battle formation and also the strengths and weaknesses of the party comp/individual characters.

The exact setting is not yet decided, it could be realistic medieval, high fantasy medieval with demihumans and magical creatures and some level of magic, steampunk, etc.. The "raiders" could be seafaring viking types, fighting in a religious conflict like crusaders, or some of both.

Thanks for reading, and lmk if you are interested or have any questions.
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
What do you have so far?

I just started coding last week, I'm focusing on getting the combat system nearly fully working first.

So I've started on turn states (starting a round, cycling through player char's/enemies, ending a round), and placing friendlies/enemies appropriately based on formation choices and number of characters in a row (i.e. if 3 characters are in a row they are less spread out than if there are 2).
 
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levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
So pretty basic stuff still, but have player characters (white) and enemy characters (red) cycling through turns, and during a characters' turns the in range enemies are colored yellow (will later be a highlight or something). Next step is making the attacks/actions, and replacing the square images with some sort of humanoid with a weapon so it starts to vaguely resemble what it will end up as.

image.png
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Why confine yourself within the bounds of hipster trash instead of making a new original game with actual depth?
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
Why confine yourself within the bounds of hipster trash instead of making a new original game with actual depth?

I know you're mostly just trolling, but using the basic formula of Darkest Dungeon isn't really confining, and has potential to be enjoyable (should be evident to you as well based on your 1000+ hours you put into it).

There are many games that combine management + combat missions like DD, So really the most limiting part of the DD formula is the traditional JRPG combat as opposed to using map/tile based combat, however some people like more traditional combat system and I am also pushing conventions of it in a number of regards.
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
I'm getting closer to having the combat system functional, and while I think have a design with enough core facets to be novel yet still accessible (not all mentioned ITT), coming up with individual character abilities to interact with this system will be a large endeavor requiring much creative thought.

So if anyone is interested in helping with design (preferably you have extensively analyzed traditional RPG combat design already and thought of ways to improve it), I can fill you in on the details of the combat system and get your ideas/input.
 
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Tavernking

Don't believe his lies
Developer
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
1,212
Location
Australia
Best way would be to upload a prototype for interested people to test and give feedback
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
Best way would be to upload a prototype for interested people to test and give feedback

Yeah, I can do that within half a week probably. Will need to make a decent assortment of starter abilities/skills as well as a basic combat scenario with some waves of enemies.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Why confine yourself within the bounds of hipster trash instead of making a new original game with actual depth?

I know you're mostly just trolling, but using the basic formula of Darkest Dungeon isn't really confining, and has potential to be enjoyable (should be evident to you as well based on your 1000+ hours you put into it).

There are many games that combine management + combat missions like DD, So really the most limiting part of the DD formula is the traditional JRPG combat as opposed to using map/tile based combat, however some people like more traditional combat system and I am also pushing conventions of it in a number of regards.

No, I'm not trolling and it really is confining.

You can make enemies or skills or whatever do more damage or less damage or have some additional effect and so on but a developer and a modder are in about the same place concerning adding depth and new mechanics and so on. Doing much of anything requires scrapping the entire formula and starting again with something that is open ended enough that it allows for actual depth.

So if you're talking about a new game why not start with a framework that allows for actual depth instead of doing the equivalent of planting your bumper in a ditch straight off?

As for the trite old hours count argument, so you're counting on some autist that will effortlessly make a far better (but still narrow) game than you will and obsess over his own work and not yours? This is again fail design, if you're a developer you should not be effortlessly outclassed by some fucker editing text documents. Derpest Dungeon does not even have room for non combat mechanics more sophisticated than a linear build order in which you do half the options in a set order and ignore the other half and Giant Alien Spiders mass copy pasted which just means a basic Simon Says mini game.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,606
Will the game have an ability unlock or gear treadmill progression? Or will interest be maintained by a series of interesting encounters? How much of a role will randomness play?
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
Will the game have an ability unlock or gear treadmill progression? Or will interest be maintained by a series of interesting encounters? How much of a role will randomness play?

The goal is interesting encounters, rather than treadmills since balancing those tends to make skill less of a factor.

For unlocked higher level abilities, the plan will be for those abilities to be situational and/or be powerful but inefficient stamina cost, and thus will not be used too often.

Overall advanced gear will play little or no role in success.

If no role, that means the player would always be able to choose weapon and armor types to bring into battle, and no higher tier weapons.

If little role, I was thinking maybe characters would buy upgrades for their equipment after being on enough successful missions (using their share of the spoils to improve their survivability). The player could choose which piece/type of equipment is upgraded for them.

Another possibility is some sort of rune/charm system for further customization of characters. I could make them locked to characters, or require an "attunement period" on a character before they became active or full strength, to work around the micromanagement issue of constant switching of equipment. Of course a decently designed UI/auto assign system could make collective equipment easier to manage for the player, but I think I like the idea of having them strongly linked to characters.

An actual deep game like this was The Spirit Engine 2. With some elements from Darkest Dungeon you might actually get something workable.

I checked out SE2 and might do a playthrough. But it seems to have a different direction than mine, which is more focus on formations/tactical positioning while still not using a tile map. So idk if I'll be able to draw too many ideas from it.
 
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adrix89

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
700
Location
Why are there so many of my country here?
I checked out SE2 and might do a playthrough. But it seems to have a different direction than mine, which is more focus on formations/tactical positioning while still not using a tile map. So idk if I'll be able to draw too many ideas from it.
Look at the damage/armor system and attack types. So many RPGs are ruined from having poor attack formulas. Also SE2 is pretty much a microcosm of good RPG design.
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
been working on leader/tactical type classes this week. Beyond the standard buffing of allies, a skill I've thought of is where you predict some aspect of the battle and get a morale bonus/penalty based on guessing correctly.

Here is a screenshot example, M represents morale for now, will have a symbol later.

DB9I_Y2rTxOMpAo07RqjRA.png


Morale will be straightforward/traditional, combat bonuses at higher amounts, combat penalties at lower amounts. There will be 5-10+ battles per mission, for which morale carries over.

There might be around 10-15 of these option skills in the game, and the player can choose to upgrade the options for larger bonuses or replace them with other options.

Customizing the pool of choices can make these "leaders" better suited for different party comps or scenarios that facilitate these predictions.
 
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Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,529
Whatever you do, cut way down on the grind. I might have actually put some time into DD if not for that.
 

levgre

Novice
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
55
Decided to switch over to working on the campaign portion of the game (which includes base building, a map of cities, dungeons, etc.) for a change of pace. I can also get a better sense of progress by fleshing out the game.

Buildings in the base, in additions to their built-in facilities, will have slots for individual staff members you assign to the building. You can hire staff specifically for them, or combat fighters can also retire/transition to being building staff, meaning the progress of a fighter who gets too injured/emotionally unhinged for battle is not a total loss.

Right now these are the 3 types of buildings I'm set on -

Training: improving the combat skills of fighters

Medical: healing injuries, including preventing infection

Spying: gives more detailed info on locations you plan to attack, i.e. what types of enemies, how many, who the leaders are so you can recognize them in battle, etc.. Also will allow sabotaging defenses, perhaps staging mutinies as a more powerful/costly option.

Other buildings that are possibilities:

Siege Production (not technically buildings, but still large construction items) - siege would be like spying in that it weakens defenses, except it would be more long term and less flexible... it's harder to move a siege force from one town to another than a few spies are.

Depending on the path I go with siege combat, I might need...

Barracks - supports non-player character fighters who would support sieges or fight against other armies.

Defenses (such as walls, moats) - defend the base from raids/assaults, which will probably not be a major threat or loss condition, but likely exist to some extent. Switching up from offense scenarios occasionally to defense scenarios is always fun.

Food/alcohol production - keeps fighters/army happier and reduces costs over time compared to buying the food from others

caravans - speed up movement on the campaign map

Fortress/castle - if the base is mobile (which I am heavily leaning towards) there is the possibility of permanent fortifications that would have to be abandoned (or deconstructed for a partial refund) if the player were to move their location again.

Not technically a building, but another idea is that the player will be able to buy residences/businesses in different towns and cities. The benefits could include more happiness from sending figihters there for R&R and passive income.
 

NeoKino

RPGCodex Ninja
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
There is a reason why darkest dungeon is popular, it doesn't flood you with needlessly complicated mechanics.
 

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