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MAFIA III - Yo Coonass prepare ta learn 'bout family in N'awlins

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,477
I liked how the police worked in Mafia 1 and 2. Not some heat or stars you accumulate and the cops come, but if you kill people or do crimes and there are no cops who see you you're fine. Also if a cop sees you and kill him, again you're fine if no one else sees you.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
I liked how the police worked in Mafia 1 and 2. Not some heat or stars you accumulate and the cops come, but if you kill people or do crimes and there are no cops who see you you're fine. Also if a cop sees you and kill him, again you're fine if no one else sees you.
GTA has this too.
 

Astral Rag

Arcane
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
7,771
I liked how the police worked in Mafia 1 and 2. Not some heat or stars you accumulate and the cops come, but if you kill people or do crimes and there are no cops who see you you're fine. Also if a cop sees you and kill him, again you're fine if no one else sees you.
GTA has this too.

Wrong.

PdR5Zfz.png


Good mod:

https://www.gta5-mods.com/misc/rebalanced-authority
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
I can understand in GTA since its a satire or rather, it can pass as a satire but trey do try to arrest you.

However Mafia had fines, police would not react with lethal force because you just run a red light as they would notice you to stop, this seems to have been lost in Mafia III thats the problem, GTA and Saints Row are games that at least implied a satire and wave things for "fun gameplay" as Mafia at least attempted some realism, whats more as nobody should take GTA serious and doesnt attempt to pass it as such, the same is not with Mafia III with its "trigger warning" that makes one wonder how one should they take their portrayal of the racism if the game world follow a very unrealistic behavior when it comes to police force, you just dont pass a caricature of the police along with "serious realistic depiction of 1968 southern racism" just like you dont pass Air Combat as a realistic flight sim.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
I liked how the police worked in Mafia 1 and 2. Not some heat or stars you accumulate and the cops come, but if you kill people or do crimes and there are no cops who see you you're fine. Also if a cop sees you and kill him, again you're fine if no one else sees you.
GTA has this too.

Wrong.

PdR5Zfz.png


Good mod:

https://www.gta5-mods.com/misc/rebalanced-authority
I was sure if you killed someone far away from any city, you got no stars at all. I played GTA V for like 50 hours and I could count on that happening.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
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Location
Lost in Necropolis
Been a very long time but isnt that the opposite of Mafia were if there was a cop and you broke a traffic law you were pretty much fucked since it was 1920's cars and the police cars were typical much better that yours? there was that mission with the racing car were because you were timed you had to pretty much ignore traffic signs but your car was much faster and could outrun the police anyway that was the exception to the rule.
Nah, you can escape from them even with the worst cars, you just need to be smart about it, like making a turn to some narrow alley and trying to lose them there, or going at full speed through a traffic jam hoping that the cops following you will crash into something (preferably a tram car). You also get an increasingly large collection of fast cars towards the end of the game, even though you'll probably not use them much since most of the time you'll be driving around at 40 mph anyway.

Mafia 1 probably still has the best wanted system I've seen in any game:

- Minor infractions only lead to a fine, and after paying it you can be on your way as long as you're not a repeat offender. Going just over the speed limit is worthy of a speeding ticket, but going at insane speeds is considered a much more serious offense.
- Cops rarely bother chasing you for minor stuff, especially if they're on foot. However, if they do give you a chase, they will get more angry if you refuse to stop.
- Medium transgressions may get you arrested, but the cops will only fire at you if you pose a real danger to the people around you, like start waving a gun around or drive over pedestrians.
- Initially only the cops that see you commit the crime get alerted; if you've committed bad enough crimes, they might call for city-wide backup by making a call from a phone booth.
- You can lose the cops by switching cars without them seeing it, or simply by getting out of the car if they haven't seen your face yet.

A lot of this stuff can be found in newer games in some form, of course, but it's usually done in a more "gamey" way, like having a clearly marked area on your radar that you need to escape without the cops seeing you, or something like that. The system is not perfect, of course: losing the cops is pretty easy if you just manage to find a secluded spot somewhere, and there's a bit of telepathy involved when all of the cops in the city are after you (then again, two-way police radio was invented already in the 1930's, so I guess it's not all that unrealistic). At some point driving around becomes a bit of a chore when you're just trying to get from A to B as cleanly as possible and realize that you're driving like an old lady. Still, it just says something about the level of authenticity they were going for. Such a system might be rather poor fit for something like GTA where you're basically a saint if you don't murder anyone while going to the grocery store, but then again, Mafia 1 was always a rather unique game, and the GTA comparisons were misguided from day one.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Moo?
I liked how the police worked in Mafia 1 and 2. Not some heat or stars you accumulate and the cops come, but if you kill people or do crimes and there are no cops who see you you're fine. Also if a cop sees you and kill him, again you're fine if no one else sees you.
GTA has this too.

Wrong.

PdR5Zfz.png


Good mod:

https://www.gta5-mods.com/misc/rebalanced-authority
I was sure if you killed someone far away from any city, you got no stars at all. I played GTA V for like 50 hours and I could count on that happening.


I've seen people kill backpackers out in the middle of the wilderness and suddenly a wanted star pops up. 'GTA V cops always know' in Google comes up with plenty of topics discussing the problem, and 4chan once had a massive thread packed with videos about magic cops.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Still, it just says something about the level of authenticity they were going for. Such a system might be rather poor fit for something like GTA where you're basically a saint if you don't murder anyone while going to the grocery store, but then again, Mafia 1 was always a rather unique game, and the GTA comparisons were misguided from day one.

True and if I recall Mafia cops would only start shooting if you fired on them, you could easily escape as they would not fire unless you were armed and open fire on them.

My comment on GTA was more about the "dont give a shit" attitude of the police unless you open fire, there was no traffic laws in GTA were you just drive as a maniac without care, I know they are different type of games in the sense of what they are aiming for, this is why I put Saints Row as well too since its similar in tone to GTA, Mafia was not ... even in II that people didnt like there was still a attempt at more grounded realism.

Problem is most games are even more basic that 10 or 15 years ago, what Mafia III did reminds me of Watch_Dogs were its about the same down to some very clear oversights such as if you got in a boat your only problem was helis and only if you could get under a bridge without being in their circle, there is a LOT of *I dont give a shit* in basic design and too much of a empathize on "story" were players simply cannot take it serious, be it Mafia III or whatever open world they come up, GTA and Saints Row got away because they werent being serious, Mafia III and I bet Watch_Dogs II are.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
Watch Dogs 2 is taking the less serious route, just look at the game. Mafia 2 cops shot at you if you did something really bad like kill someone or crashed into a whole bunch of stuff.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
What's kinda rubbing me the wrong way about cops in Mafia 3 is how when chasing you they're literally glued to your back. Even with one of the sportscars, it seems impossible to outrun them.
No matter whether you slide into a small sidestreet (or even walkway), drive high speed zigzag on the opposite lane in heavy traffic or put the pedal to the medal on a long straight, those 8 policecars in pursuit are lined up behind you like they're just an extension of your own body, centipede style.

Occasionally it is eventually possible to get rid of them - I presume when their AI gliches out - but by and large the best course of action seemed to be parking in some alley, shooting them all and then fleeing the scene in any direction where roads are absent.

Something else: has anyone but me noticed the weird behavior changes the game seems to undergo? For example, early in the game it annoyed me to no end that my car was always teleported away from where I'd left it when entering a building. Now, much later in the game, this seems to have ceased completely. Strange.
Still pisses me off that you can't hold onto dear cars somehow.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I think Mafia 2 in its best directed moments, where you would preform iconic "mob guy" actions, or where your character had conversations with other mafia members, touched on the kind of dream game set in the 40s-50s that I would like to play. Combine the acting and dialogues of LA Noire (just without its dialogue wheel-type conversation system) with the characters of Mafia 2, tone down the "good-natured mobsters vs. evil mobsters" opposition and then just pack content in it.

Even without a lot of complex reactivity, just playing through it as an interactive movie would have been so satisfying. Realistic cop behavior, realistic portrayal of cop methods of operation and procedures, a la LA Noire, and less shooting in general would make a "dream Mafia game" so much better. Going even further, shooting and killing characters could play a huge part in the reactivity when it comes to playing from the perspective of a crime organisation member.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
Just finished the game, though I didn't bother doing side missions during capturing the last three districs and what came after.

There are parts of a decent game therein, but stretching it out the way they did was a mistake that just leaves a bad aftertaste in the mouth of the player.
It's exactly like AngryJoe remarked, every district plays out almost exactly the same, you go through the same motions, watch the same animations and it's all the same boredom.
Only the final missions break up the mold a little, with the riverboat, the boxing ring, the KKK meeting and so on. These are at least something.
It's like with the city itself, you have railroad tracks, but there are no trains, you have a ton of thingies, but none of it is interactive in any way, you have copy-pasted interiors that are samey, you have bossfights in buildings you just cleared minutes ago ... all of this stuff adds up giving the game an appearence as if funding ran out 75% through and so everything was just left unfinished.

The story is okay and has it's moments, but I feel little is lost simply watching the cutscenes on Youtube and playing GTA instead. Which is a shame.

Also, this game has no business being part of the Mafia franchise anyway. It should've been called Vietnam Veterans Vengeance or something. The mob plays such a small role.
It kinda felt like if you'd take the Godfather 3 intro (let's not delve into discussions about it's quality, I'm just trying to make a point here), make a cut and then glue Rambo 1 on.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
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Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
I actuallly find it fascinating - why the 2nd set of districts (so the first 3 you can investigate & assign to underbosses) have a banalshit boring finale mission.. while the next 3 districts (with Marcone's capos) have actually good, unique missions at the end
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Been a very long time but isnt that the opposite of Mafia were if there was a cop and you broke a traffic law you were pretty much fucked since it was 1920's cars and the police cars were typical much better that yours? there was that mission with the racing car were because you were timed you had to pretty much ignore traffic signs but your car was much faster and could outrun the police anyway that was the exception to the rule.

Can't really gauge if they get artificial/hidden speed-up when they're chasing you but police car in Mafia is run-of-the mill type (you can check the stats in the Carcyclopedia option in the main menu), you'll usually drive faster vehicles (problem is that most players are used to more arcadish car games where you curve at full speed without losing control of your vehicle). Keeping in mind that not all vehicles are equally good in bumping contests, it's especially dangerous when you're driving a cabriolet as you die if the car flips over.

The easy way to escape cops is slowing down the car like you're gonna stop, wait till the cops get out of the car to reach you on foot and then speed away. Or you can try to get them to crash into another vehicle or obstacle, tram works really well from my experience. Alternatively you can just shoot the bastards, unless all the cops are alerted you'll have no trouble walking away from it.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
I think Mafia 2 in its best directed moments, where you would preform iconic "mob guy" actions, or where your character had conversations with other mafia members, touched on the kind of dream game set in the 40s-50s that I would like to play. Combine the acting and dialogues of LA Noire (just without its dialogue wheel-type conversation system) with the characters of Mafia 2, tone down the "good-natured mobsters vs. evil mobsters" opposition and then just pack content in it.

Even without a lot of complex reactivity, just playing through it as an interactive movie would have been so satisfying. Realistic cop behavior, realistic portrayal of cop methods of operation and procedures, a la LA Noire, and less shooting in general would make a "dream Mafia game" so much better. Going even further, shooting and killing characters could play a huge part in the reactivity when it comes to playing from the perspective of a crime organisation member.

Personally, I can't even remember those well directed moments in Mafia 2 or most characters for that matter. The game has an unfocused main story that has you switch sides too often and introduces new characters at a tremendous pace for such a short game, the result is a convoluted mess. The only thing I liked about the game was driving around town (the game looked and still looks terrific) and collecting Playboy magazines.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
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Messages
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Location
Kelethin
There is a similar lame 'trending' video of GTA from a few days ago as well, where they put 100 people in front of a tram and it does the same thing.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Personally, I can't even remember those well directed moments in Mafia 2 or most characters for that matter. The game has an unfocused main story that has you switch sides too often and introduces new characters at a tremendous pace for such a short game, the result is a convoluted mess. The only thing I liked about the game was driving around town (the game looked and still looks terrific) and collecting Playboy magazines.
Moments like Vito's return home and how it's not all the way he imagined it. Vito's first brush with the Mob when Joe introduces him to that guy who gave him the gas stamps mission. Driving wounded Henry back. Vito and Joe becoming made guys. Burying the corpse that Joe forgot in his car trunk. Beating up Francesca's husband. There are bits within the missions that develop the characters.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
The easy way to escape cops is slowing down the car like you're gonna stop, wait till the cops get out of the car to reach you on foot and then speed away. Or you can try to get them to crash into another vehicle or obstacle, tram works really well from my experience. Alternatively you can just shoot the bastards, unless all the cops are alerted you'll have no trouble walking away from it.

Been ages but the way I did it was taking shortcuts and know when to push it because they werent around or could do anything, also I could outdrive them by going into traffic and wait for them to crash. I still avoid getting into that because its Mafia not Grand Theft Auto With Mandatory Police Chases Since Its In The Title, if I could avoid it then I would and I learned to avoid them.

Car controls were as bad for me as shooting was, I definitely remember having problems in adapting to them.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
I don't know what the fuck is happened but after downloading a 1.5 Gb patch, Mafia 3 performances are worse than ever...even worse than release game with 30 fps. What can it be?
 

Abhay

Augur
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
204
Location
India
So, I've finished playing the game had to offer and my god the story is fantastic. Hangar 13 completely blew my expectations out of the water. Everything about the story be the protagonist, characters and the writing is simply awesome. Its definitely better than the crap story of Mafia 2, and just as excellent as the first Mafia. In fact, I'd say Mafia III does an impressive job of keeping me hooked on to the revenge tale even better than the first Mafia at many points in the story.
Even the gameplay connected with the story isn't that bad as the reviews suggest. I don't understand how come the critics find games like IV much better and give away almost perfect scores when Rockstar titles suffer with many of the gameplay related issues they are slamming Mafia III to tell the world that the game sucks?
Is it just the double standards or the critics don't know what the fuck are they really saying? If any thing, the games these reviewers are comparing Mafia III to ( GTA IV and RDR ) actually suffer with more repetition, boring, dull mission objectives. Mafia III does get repetitive but its not just drive to point A, shoot, rinse and repeat. There's a good mix of freedom allowed in how you do even those simple missions, including the optional tasks like the districts and rackets are equally fun. The gunplay and driving are spot on. The shootouts are a lot of fun as well. The beautiful and detailed city offers good amount of interiors and great list of things to explore as well.
The game does suffer from the bugs and glirches that I even had issues with Rockstar and many AAA games on release, but the developers are working hard on fixing them, including taking more of player suggestions and feedback to improve the experience, which I guess after sometime will get sorted out anyways. Maybe Take Two didn't want to push the release further to the next financial year for their own business reasons but the game definitely feels a lot better than Mafia 2 despite all the flaws. Its the best Mafia since the Original came out, and I've no qualms in saying that the story is brilliantly executed in comparison as well.

The upcoming story DLCs are a great opportunity for Hangar 13 to boost the game's content - as some parts of the game feel unfinished - while offering more improvements as well, mainly, the AI, which is rubbish and affects majority of the game's potential from NPC behaviors to retarded wanted system and the dumb enemy reactions. The AI in its current state is too problematic to easily ignore and does more harm to the overall experience since the game has all the foundations to offer an addictive and fun gameplay, just needs more attention from the designers to fix whatever that needs to be done to make it work as intended and promised during the pre-release interviews.
If you haven't played the game yet then don't be in a hurry to buy it, but wait for the DLCs to arrive and then pick it up with all the improvements in place.

If you can deal with whatever shortcomings are there like I did then you won't be disappinted in terms of how much dedication has gone into the setting, details, writing and top notch atmosphere.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
Kinda funny/sad how hard this game tanked.
The local gaming magazine I still purchase as pot lecture tends to praise AAA games to the high heavens, even those that suck get 8/10 or better ratings, but even they called out Mafia 3 as being utterly mediocre, repetetive and partially broken when it comes to tech.
Elsewhere (I think in the Irrational thread) I read Mafia 3 needs to sell 8 mio copies to recoupt it's investment - seems unlikely, at this point, to say the least.

Why was the game even released in this state? Did the supposedly internal studio run out of money?
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
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Tanked? It was top of the sales charts.
 

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