4X M.O.R.E. - Oldschool turn-based 4X space strategy

[RayF]

This looks interesting, will check regularly.

Edit: this thread reminded me I still needed to pick up MOO 1+2, to you more experienced space 4x'ers: which one should I boot up?

1 is the better game, but the graphics are pretty dated

 

[Grotesque]

, the graphics say 1996 at best you realize that what you said is a compliment, right? The UI and the 2D art at least is superrior to anything released recently.
and extremely low budget and slow development tells me its going to be released in a terrible state, if at all. Also you could ask yourself if the slow dvelopment time is because of the low tem number and because is not rushed into alpha at all costs
I find it impossible to feel even slightly interested by this, I recomment watching the 8 promotional videos depicting the features of this game. Personally I was pretty impressed by the degree of customization, attention to detail and passion poured into the game. the space 4x market is overcrowded already as it is and with Endless space 2, stellaris and the master of orion remake coming I'm pretty sure they will be completely destroyed if they decide to release next year. The remake of master of orion will be shit. Endless space 1 was a poor game. It will be a small miracle if the sequel is far better. Stellaris is all talk at this point. And if MORE will not sell well, it doesn't mean it will be a shitty game because of that

 

[Marobug]

"you realize that what you said is a compliment, right? The UI and the 2D art at least is superrior to anything released recently"

what

"I recomment watching the 8 promotional videos depicting the features of this game. Personally I was pretty impressed by the degree of customization, attention to detail and passion poured into the game."

I saw the videos and nothing impressed me the slightest, and I'd like to understand how you can judge "all the passion poured into the game" by a few videos.

"The remake of master of orion will be shit. Endless space 1 was a poor game. It will be a small miracle if the sequel is far better. Stellaris is all talk at this point."

I don't necessarily agree that ES1 was a great game and I'm kind of scared of the MOO remake as well, but calling them poor while lauding this POS is almost comical. We have enough shit indie 4x games as it is, and this one doesn't look any better imo.

 

[Perkel]

I find it impossible to feel even slightly interested by this, the space 4x market is overcrowded already as it is and with Endless space 2, stellaris and the master of orion remake coming I'm pretty sure they will be completely destroyed if they decide to release next year.

Endless space 2

the master of orion remake

stellaris

Only one that has some promise.

 

[Destroid]

While I am pretty critical of ES1, EL has had a pretty positive response and I think ES could become a good game without overly large alteration.

 

[Marobug]

Only one that has some promise.

Check the dictionary cocksplurt. "Overcrowded genre" is not the same as "lots of quality games". Those I just mentioned were due for 2016 only, let alone those released this year and in recent years.

 

[Grotesque]

what

Master of Orion 2 was released in 1996. Alas, MORE will not have it's exquisite 2D design and artistic direction but from what I've seen from the diplomacy screens, alien races rendering, 2D pictograms and 3D animation of long range planetary bombardments etc, it comes pretty close.

I saw the videos and nothing impressed me the slightest

When I grow up, I want to be as cool as you. But at the moment I am sorry to hear that. I recently re-watched all of them and I got hyped again for this game. It has many features that an in-depth Master of Orion 2 on steroids spiritual successor should have.

I'd like to understand how you can judge "all the passion poured into the game" by a few videos.

Language, empathy and the amount of work done by a very small team that could've been done only if passion was involved.
Also it helped reading the near daily reports regarding project status where also Sundays are work days.

but calling them poor while lauding this POS is almost comical

I see you upgraded MORE to a "piece of shit" status. Well, this shit in it's present form stinks a lot less at the moment. And I have a feeling it will stay that way.

Check the dictionary cocksplurt

It seems you are a boarish swamp cunt!
Where the fuck you think you are to carry forth such foul language?
RPG Codex?

 

[Marobug]

Master of Orion 2 was released in 1996. Alas, MORE will not have it's exquisite 2D design and artistic direction but from what I've seen from the diplomacy screens, alien races rendering, 2D pictograms and 3D animation of long range planetary bombardments etc, it comes pretty close.

2D art and specially UI looks amateurish at best, as for the 3D side of things I'd suggest you play any game, or even better any 4X game released after 2002 and compare. A fugly bloom filter on top of things doesn't suddenly make it up to today's standards.
And as for the comparison with moo2, this looks nothing like it and even if it did, it certainly isn't the graphics that make me or anyone still play it today. It has its charm but once you take out your rose tinted glasses you'll quickly realize that technology improved a lot since 1996.

When I grow up, I want to be as cool as you. But at the moment I am sorry to hear that. I recently re-watched all of them and I got hyped again for this game. It has many features that an in-depth Master of Orion 2 on steroids spiritual successor should have.

Don't get me wrong, if you like it, awesome. But I'm having a hard time getting excited for features such as "Full 3D galactic map", "Varied size and color of the stars", "Designing spacecraft from parts", "Intergalactic alien race" and anything else they are offering.

Language, empathy and the amount of work done by a very small team that could've been done only if passion was involved.
Also it helped reading the near daily reports regarding project status where also Sundays are work days.

I'm pretty sure this would apply to all the other shit indie 4X games that were released recently.

It seems you are a boarish swamp cunt!
Where the fuck you think you are to carry forth such foul language?
RPG Codex?

Go back to the RPG watch ya son of a chesticle

 

[Grotesque]

And as for the comparison with moo2, this looks nothing like it.

Where you see amateurism at best, I see a throwback to the retro style of the 90's (voluntarily or not). And the diplomacy screens, they do have a strong MoO2 vibe to them.
And I recently saw a video of the 3D interaction screen while bombarding a planet and its orbital structures from orbit and I have to say it was so visually cool and more original than anything I've saw in a high budget 4x game.(even the bombs launched from orbit to reach the planet surface followed a trajectory worthy of Kerbal space program)
And for an indie team they did more than their share in trying to infuse a soul via visual richness to a game in the 4x genre that can be as soulless as a spreadsheet.
You say the graphics are extremely low budget.
I say that for the budget they have, the graphics are exquisite. Not so much when it comes to spaceship battles but that is still work in progress.
Graphics and artistic style/direction are two completely different things and the latter is infinitely more important than the former.

It has its charm but once you take out your rose tinted glasses you'll quickly realize that technology improved a lot since 1996.

I enjoy very much the style of MoO2 to this day.
From the sprites that depict soldiers on the battlefield, planetary backgrounds and the portraits of leaders to the slightly clumsily animated alien representations in diplomacy screens, the depiction of colony buildings, the skeuomorphic UI art...
You say it has it's charm.
Oh yeah, you can fuckin say that again! And believe me when I'am saying that this charm you so rapidly come to dismiss plays a good role on why the majority still thinks MoO2 is still the best 4x game out there.
I tried to lift those tinted glasses and saw only shit and put them back again.
And at a closer inspection I realized those tinted glasses had no lenses in the first place.

But I'm having a hard time getting excited for features such as "Full 3D galactic map", "Varied size and color of the stars", "Designing spacecraft from parts", "Intergalactic alien race" and anything else they are offering.

Well, let me tell you what I am excited for that falls into the "anything else they are offering" category that failed to impress you in any way and somehow were not worthy to mention besides the generic features you chose to mention like 3D star map, varied star colors and alien menace ( I can sense foul play from your part)

up to 1000 systems (and even more if I understood right)
posibillity to hide in nebulas/ affecting ships in combat in different ways
camera position saver, access the positions via shortcuts
stable/unstable stars. alien race that live only on unstable stars
stationary fleets in deep space possible
limited view by sector only
ludicrous amount of options when generating galaxy
private research branch that is exclusive to that race
3D/ 2D galaxy generator
each race has it's own UI art
posibility to stick to one preffered UI art
tool for easily specializing planet production
indepth filter to sort out planets depending on 17 criteria
customizable color coded priority based events/pause filters
tool to manage the entire empire (color coded colonies to globally move/assign resources between them; build certain structures simultaneously on color coded colonies)
ships that massivly vary in size
ship ramming

I'm pretty sure this would apply to all the other shit indie 4X games that were released recently.

I said I was pretty impressed by the passion poured into this game. I never said that because of it, MORE will be automatically a good game.
You asked how can I judge all this passion from 8 videos I saw.
I replied and if this would apply to other shit (or not) 4x indie game was not the subject of your question for you to make this remark afterwards.

 

[Grotesque]

new video up for the tomorrow's scheduled site update/revamp

 

[Grotesque]

New kickstarter update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1447560584/more-of-more/posts/1348401

 

[Grotesque]

M.O.R.E. Q&A Part 1

http://explorminate.net/2015/10/26/m-o-r-e-qa-part-1/

 

[Marobug]

M.O.R.E. Q&A Part 1

http://explorminate.net/2015/10/26/m-o-r-e-qa-part-1/

"it's almost in ready for a Single Player version (albeit without AI) "

wat. Over 3 years now and they haven't started work on the AI ?

This one line is also a gem: "We spent 2 and a half hours looking at (playing?) M.O.R.E. together. M.O.R.E. didn't crash even once"

I know you're looking forward to this, but this sounds beyond fishy to me. Am I missing something ?

 

[Beowulf]

"it's almost in ready for a Single Player version (albeit without AI) "

wat. Over 3 years now and they haven't started work on the AI ?

This one line is also a gem: "We spent 2 and a half hours looking at (playing?) M.O.R.E. together. M.O.R.E. didn't crash even once"

I know you're looking forward to this, but this sounds beyond fishy to me. Am I missing something ?

Not necessarily. People look forward to it because the bits shown so far are looking really good. The fact is, they really may be good, but they develop it really slowly. I browsed the forums some time ago and found a post with some indications to nearest development timelines and goals:
http://www.morethegame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=334&start=480#p7699

I haven't read the Q&A yet, so perhaps one can find different statements there. To me it promises more (no pun intended) than MoO "Remake" and looks better, but I doubt it will be released before 2017.

 

[Perkel]

"it's almost in ready for a Single Player version (albeit without AI) "

wat. Over 3 years now and they haven't started work on the AI ?

This one line is also a gem: "We spent 2 and a half hours looking at (playing?) M.O.R.E. together. M.O.R.E. didn't crash even once"

I know you're looking forward to this, but this sounds beyond fishy to me. Am I missing something ?

AI is something you do at the end of game dev.
Sure you can lie foundations but you can't create proper AI until you have all mechanics finalized in game.

As of crashing. Games in developement do crash at even slightest blow. This is mainly due to game trying to use mechanics, assets and so on which are still not in game.

If they will go to alpha without AI then someone can be worried. If they go to beta and will crash like mother fucker then you can be worried.

 

[Grotesque]

but this sounds beyond fishy to me

Fishy in what way? That they ate all the money up and all the progress they report nearly on daily basis on the forum is an elaborate hoax to steal more time while they're packing bags for Bahamas?
Maybe.
But using Occam's razor it would be more probable this: inexperienced overly enthusiastic young team keeps missing deadlines because gaming development is a bitch and way more complex than they stupidly thought.
At this stage I hope it would take less time to be finalized than Age of Decadence.
In my case I would rather wait three more years of development than rushing a half-assed game.
It all depends on their mental strength at this point and the level of sacrifice they/him is willing to take because I sense the money are nearly gone.

If they will go to alpha without AI then someone can be worried

They will launch alpha without AI. LAN/hotseat mode.


EDIT:

"I'm glad some of you like our interwiev. Next part is ready and it'll be published next week. Also we want to publish then new update. Right now (from yesterday afternoon) I was chasing some strange bug. When enemy fleet fly out of our scan network, it still showing it's movement path. It's very strange as I'm destroying this object.. but it doesn't want to be destroyed. I mean.. it's destroyed but... it's still there and there isn't any error. But errror is this object still exist! Strange strange strange.. very strange. I hope that I'll find fast this bug and move on. So yes, we are still chasing some bugs, even if Nathan didn't noticed any... we see that we still have some things to upgrade. When we will finish that, we will move on to economy. We can not wait for this stage."

 

[RayF]

AI is something you do at the end of game dev.
Sure you can lie foundations but you can't create proper AI until you have all mechanics finalized in game.

But all of that can be done independently of UI development, which takes the most time.

 

[Perkel]

But all of that can be done independently of UI development, which takes the most time.

What UI has to do with it ?

I mean if you don't have in game lets say "Heave Lasers" then how you can write AI to use those lasers ?
This goes for everything. If they don't have created completely star systems then how AI will know which planet to colonize etc.

 

[RayF]

What UI has to do with it ?

I mean if you don't have in game lets say "Heave Lasers" then how you can write AI to use those lasers ?
This goes for everything. If they don't have created completely star systems then how AI will know which planet to colonize etc.

The model code for lasers is not the same thing as the UI code. The graphical display of all of the game elements takes MUCH longer to write than the model code for them. And the AI interacts with the model code, not the UI code. Only the player needs the UI.

Same thing for planets. It is fairly trivial to write code to generate planets and stars in a galaxy. The AI can colonize those. But the code to show a 3D representation of the galaxy? Much harder, but the AI doesn't need that.

 

[Grotesque]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...rn-based-4x-space-strategy-game/posts/1402643

 

[Irenaeus II]

I backed this in 2012, didn't back on second time. Maybe I'll get it in 2020. If they half-ass it, I won't even touch it.

Looks great so far.

 

[Grotesque]

Maybe I'll get it in 2020

be sure to eat healthy, watch for cars when crossing the street and spend less time on the Codex so you will survive 'till 2020 to enjoy it.

 

[Monocause]

Work on stuff like the AI in many games that actually need a half-competent AI usually starts when the game is close to 'code complete' as you need to point the AI to data it can evaluate and then ensure it evaluates it correctly. Starting advanced work on that too early in the cycle can mean a shitton of valuable hours lost. It's showing the data points and then assisting the evaluation by setting priorities, conditions etc etc. Making it into a tight system that also has contingencies, that prioritises correctly and doesn't shit on itself when something unexpected happens and *also* produces an outcome that makes sense takes precious time that you never want to go to waste. Definitely not the case of "they started developing this late therefore it was low priority therefore it will be half-arsed and shit".

Consider this - at turn 20 in most space 4X games you want the AI to be geared towards expansion and colonisation. BUT you'd also like it to consider that maybe it's worth dishing out a warship early and attacking someone, to add challenge and a bit of unpredictability, and you'd probably like it to be based on racial/faction traits. BUT if you, as the player, would rush the AI, then obviously you want it to completely abandon that colony ship and push all it's got into defending. BUT if there's robust diplomacy/espionage mechanics then maybe you'd want the AI to consider taking that avenue to defend itself instead of just trying to outnumber you in warships. AND you want it to continuously reevaluate your threat so that you as the player can't simply demolish the AI by putting some warships around so that it persists in a constant threat mode and never expands/develops and opts to produce increasingly outdated ships instead.

It's a simple problem that highlights how many factors and variables you can get when designing an AI for a game like this. And also the reason many studios cut some corners and give AI 'cheating bonuses' so that for example free warships spawn for the AI if the game realises that you're about to assault very early or grants it free buildings/resources if it fails to reach a certain level of development within a certain timeframe. That kind of a solution kinda works, protects the AI's blind spots from being exploited by clever players and is much easier to implement. With the caveat that once the same clever players figure out the AI is cheating, they're quite unhappy.

I'm kinda reserved about MORE as so far I can't see anything about it that I haven't seen before and a huge part of the draw strategy games have for me is learning new systems. I'll watch a few LPs when it gets released and make up my mind about it then.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Makes sense. Never thought of that.

What I liked about MORE is the variety of aliens when I backed it in 2012. There was probably other stuff, but since it's been 3 years and I don't think much about the game, I forgot.

 

[ArchAngel]

be sure to eat healthy, watch for cars when crossing the street and spend less time on the Codex so you will survive 'till 2020 to enjoy it.

If he fails we will get Irenaeus III.