[LP CYOA] Spiral

[Kipeci]

OK, I'm convinced. B > C it is.

 

[Nevill]

Bro, you don't "talk out" a 27+ year "misconception".

It depends.

Why didn't she attack us sooner? Why did she wait for the confirmation?

What happens if you take that confirmation away?

Think about it: she is willing to lure another human into a room and brutally murder him, offering him as a human sacrifice with a look of "unhinged satisfaction" on her face.

Yes. She is desperate.

Desperate people make for the most loyal allies as well as most dangerous enemies, depending on whether or not we can provide what they seek and how we go about it.

Theseus/Naim is motivated by love to kill us and therefor can never be reasoned with in any way that doesn't include saving/protecting said love.

Looks to me that she is motivated by the want to escape this place by now, though her relative may have been the reason she have come here in the first place.

She could become our Bai if we break her though. Just like how we let her fight what's his name and get all hot and bothered, we can let Uehara get roughed up a bit and she'll gladly join the harem.

Bai could not be broken. Not by us, in any case. By what we have seen of Uehara, she is teetering on the brink. She is damaged, but not shattered, and has plenty of spirit left in her.

The thing you suggest will make her a 'bored and broken' husk. Not exactly what I imagine Bai as.



...I can't believe I am typing this out, but no, letting a girl get raped and tortured does not turn her into an ally, not by a long shot.

You have to show her hard proof that killing us won't end her hellish nightmare and give her back the person she wants to raise from the dead. I don't think we have that proof yet.

That is because you have no idea what in fact does end this nightmare and why is she under such an impression. Which you could find out if, you know, you talked to her.

The only options are to delay by killing her (which is dangerous as she will be our enemy next time) or break her now.

Well, good for you, I suppose.

That or die at her hands like a hapless fool.

It is a risk, yes. Not the first one we took, and not the last one, either. Now, how did it go?

Spoiler

A Second Chance

You arrive too late. The Imperial palace is under attack. Bai Jiutian's and his forces have utterly failed to repel the enemy... You dash into the throne room to find Shun has already been evacuated. Only Bai himself remains, no doubt to hold off the enemy in one last brash act of heroism - the insufferable cunt. An explosion rocks the palace. Smoke and debris fly everywhere. One of the support columns gives way, collapsing toward Bai who is frozen in shock.

A. Save Bai - calling upon all your inner strength you catch the pillar. You might just be able to do it without breaking your back.
B. Let it squash the fucker.

Lambchop: Ok, bros - here's how I see it....
Codex: *completely ignores lambchop and votes A*

Dashing toward the pillar you let loose all of your inner strength, you catch the pillar - your every bone creaking from the strain. Behind you you can almost hear Bai's mouth gape in surprise. Recovering from the shock of having just been saved by you of all people, Bai calmly steps out of the way...and stabs you in the neck.

A spray of blood errupts from the wound and your body goes numb as you feel yourself falling backward. The column, falling with you, lands on your right shoulder, completely crushing it.

"Oh, Jing...", he laughs. "I'm surprised you haven't figured out that I am in fact responsible for all the assassination attempts on the Shun. You should have known I was Theseus."

As you listlessly watch the ever expanding pool of your own blood, you can't help but wonder at how retarded the Codex truly is...

I think it coincides with the current argument almost word for word.

 

[Grimgravy]

A

 

[Nevill]

And there is zero evidence she hears voices. This is all her own brand of crazy - and why wouldn't it be after 27 years of hell? It's a theory, but I think we're special in regard to the voices. Maybe we've been used in an experiment or something and we got thrown in a soul blender. I don't know, but I think we're the only one hearing voices apart from maybe the old man.

I am not saying that she does. She has her own brand of crazy, we have ours. If we listen to them we will be no better off, is what I am saying.

Anyway, about the crazy. Here is an interesting thought. What makes us - Uehara and Shinoseki - remember? Why the others don't? Could it be 'turned off'?

BAM! No more 27 years of Hell.

Just one of the possible solutions to Uehara's problem.

 

[Baltika9]

D>C

 

[Kayerts]

It has practically openly stated that we are the evil mastermind of all this and probably directly responsible of many gruesome deaths, we are already under the influence of the Codex of Pestilential Thought, let's not make things worse.

Personally, I've been thinking of her more as Grimoire Ei. She gave us the Black Scrawl and everything. As for why she's (unusually) reluctant for us to stand back and let Uehara be raped, my guess is that she's Mitsuki and she remembers us saving her when she was in a similar predicament in the bathroom.

Because it's not easy for you to refrain from killing people at the moment. You need to be trying to save her wholeheartedly, which includes resolving to save her mind, and maintaining a positive attitude if you even want a chance at succeeding.

Do take into the account the choices that have been made since the start of the chapter.

I would probably disagree with that one. I'd say that it is easier for us to try and save people than to leave them when they are in danger or kill them.

One thing that we haven't really investigated or had the chance to investigate, but which has been strongly hinted to be of central importance since the first night, is the malice that afflicts us in a large number of life or death situations. It seems fairly evident that it's not just us, either, e.g. the tasteful fellow in the room. My guess is that with Ei trying to turn us into Marius Hax Mk. II, and some amount of DEVOUR SOUL becoming necessary as we inevitably screw up and need to draw upon her powers, our best chance of staying ourselves is to offset the corruption with acts of mercy and kindness.

Tentative D -> C, although Lambchop has some fairly valid points.

 

[Nevill]

One thing that we haven't really investigated or had the chance to investigate, but which has been strongly hinted to be of central importance since the first night, is the malice that afflicts us in a large number of life or death situations.

I am not sure. What do you mean by malice?

How did it afflict us during the first night, or subsequent ones?

It is not that I don't believe we are influenced by something - we are, it is stupid to deny it when there are voices in our head and we keep drifting off from time to time - but I have not found a connection between it and what Ei calls malice, the essence on which the Hospital runs.

I do not remember us taking the malice inside us, either. Only Ei was feeding on the mason.

Of course, there is a bond, but I don't think it is a physical one. So I don't see why there would be a corruption.

 

[Kayerts]

One thing that we haven't really investigated or had the chance to investigate, but which has been strongly hinted to be of central importance since the first night, is the malice that afflicts us in a large number of life or death situations.

I am not sure. What do you mean by malice?

How did it afflict us during the first night, or subsequent ones?

Hm, seems I misremembered something. Here are the references to malice in the thread; the first is on the third night:

Spoiler

Your limbs are stiff. For some reason, you know that this man, whoever – or whatever – he is, does not harbour any good intentions. Malice. Yes… that is a good term for what you are feeling. You know that you should act – that you should move – but yet that malice has entangled your heart and frozen your body. Fear of the man roots you to the spot. If you try to save Mitsuki, you will attract his attention. Just the thought of that happening weighs you down with even more dread.

What else can I do?

A quiet voice whispers in your head, slyly, confidently:

You do nothing. Once he has satisfied himself with her, he will move on and leave you unmolested.

You stare down, into the inky blackness. No light reaches you here. There is no sound too; even the movement of the water is still no matter how much you wave your limbs around.

And then, in the darkness… you get the feeling that something has become aware, and is staring back.

Eyes in the depths, darker than the black, brackish water.

A sharp pain, bearing grudge and malice… and also a glimmer of recognition, slices through your skull – you scream, involuntarily, losing the last of your oxygen in a burst of bubbles.

Through my hand all manner of catastrophe, calamity and sin shall pass, and be purified in malice. All sins shall be cast into the darkness of the earth as a blessing that rejoins the eight myriad sinners assembled in the Lightless Abyss.

You tighten your grip on the ghost’s head and push him down, pinning the spirit to the ground. Fighting off the malice seems to have weakened him, making him corporeal enough for you to handle physically.

Me? Oh, I wouldn’t know until I digest more of the malice and fully understand what we are facing.

The first instance seems to be the only clear time when we felt the malice ourselves, though possibly it has something to do with all the bitchBITCHbitching that we've done. Resisting it may make us more capable of resisting it in the future; the wording of the choices throughout this chapter has clearly associated dispositions which we adopt when we choose them.

As for corruption, that was more about letting Ei feed; I don't think it's a huge leap to guess that feeding the book of black magic that wants to absorb malice by devouring souls will have adverse consequences down the road, both pragmatically and on our psychological state.

 

[treave]

If you think of malice as a substance in this world, it's also possible that it may cause different effects on your body and mind depending on the portal of entry and concentration of said substance.

 

[oscar]

C

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

If you think of malice as a substance in this world, it's also possible that it may cause different effects on your body and mind depending on the portal of entry and concentration of said substance.

Malice as a substance? This is sooo the perfect LP for the Codex.

BAM! No more 27 years of Hell.

Just one of the possible solutions to Uehara's problem.

Yeah, I'm sure she'd be happy to remain in hell if she doesn't remember it. Problem solved. But that still wouldn't change the fact that she wants a loved one "freed from our clutches" - which is probably the reason she has chosen to remain here despite possibly knowing at this point how to leave. (Btw, you don't think she's worked that out by now? I'd say it's certainly probable she has and is choosing to remain for only one reason.)

Bro, you don't "talk out" a 27+ year "misconception".

It depends.

Why didn't she attack us sooner? Why did she wait for the confirmation?

What happens if you take that confirmation away?

And how do you know she's has always waited? We remember some nights, but not all of them and certainly not 27 years worth. You know what I would do if I were in her position and believed what she does after having been through what she has? "Kill him anyway. I have to be sure. If he is lying, he'll come back tomorrow night anyway. Nothing to lose by trying."

If we let her live without giving her something more solid to go on than our word, she'll kill us. There is almost no question of it.

It's not that she tried to kill us out of remorseful necessity here. It was premeditated murder mixed with rage and anger. She truly believes we are holding her loved one somehow and that we must die to save her.

That is because you have no idea what in fact does end this nightmare and why is she under such an impression. Which you could find out if, you know, you talked to her.

Right. And we will talk to her. Either after she is broken or before we kill her - which it looks like the 'dex is leaning more toward killing her. A shame.

That or die at her hands like a hapless fool.

It is a risk, yes. Not the first one we took, and not the last one, either. Now, how did it go?

Spoiler

A Second Chance

You arrive too late. The Imperial palace is under attack. Bai Jiutian's and his forces have utterly failed to repel the enemy... You dash into the throne room to find Shun has already been evacuated. Only Bai himself remains, no doubt to hold off the enemy in one last brash act of heroism - the insufferable cunt. An explosion rocks the palace. Smoke and debris fly everywhere. One of the support columns gives way, collapsing toward Bai who is frozen in shock.

A. Save Bai - calling upon all your inner strength you catch the pillar. You might just be able to do it without breaking your back.
B. Let it squash the fucker.

Lambchop: Ok, bros - here's how I see it....
Codex: *completely ignores lambchop and votes A*

Dashing toward the pillar you let loose all of your inner strength, you catch the pillar - your every bone creaking from the strain. Behind you you can almost hear Bai's mouth gape in surprise. Recovering from the shock of having just been saved by you of all people, Bai calmly steps out of the way...and stabs you in the neck.

A spray of blood errupts from the wound and your body goes numb as you feel yourself falling backward. The column, falling with you, lands on your right shoulder, completely crushing it.

"Oh, Jing...", he laughs. "I'm surprised you haven't figured out that I am in fact responsible for all the assassination attempts on the Shun. You should have known I was Theseus."

As you listlessly watch the ever expanding pool of your own blood, you can't help but wonder at how retarded the Codex truly is...

I think it coincides with the current argument almost word for word.

You know that was before Bai got retconned into a woman. Besides, you seem to have forgotten this:

Spoiler

Black End

“Let’s check if Zhang is really dead before we have any showdowns,” you offer.

“You must be delusional if you think I’m going to buy that excuse to stall. Even if he isn’t, he is in no condition to go anywhere. I will take care of him afterwards… for now, my business is with you.”

It looks like he isn’t listening.

You break into a run, catching Bai Jiutian off-guard with your sudden burst of speed. Keeping your distance from him, you close in on Zhang Manxing’s body, hoping to ensure his death. His disembodied hand is still lying by his side, clutching the small pouch in its pale fingers.

You sense an attack coming towards your back and try to evade, but it is too little, too late; a sudden stinging pain cuts into your calves from behind. You stumble, falling and rolling towards Zhang’s body, ending up almost on top of him. Zhang's body does not budge. The pain from your severed muscles is so intense that you are unable to stay upright, try as you might.

It was not a good decision to shift your attention away from Bai Jiutian in a fight.

You crawl around to face him immediately; panic trying its best to batter down your mental fortitude. Bai Jiutian sheathes his sword, his face is carefully impassive. He betrays no signs of emotion as he approaches you. It looks like you are at his mercy. You return your full attention towards him… perhaps if he gets close enough you might have a chance to take him by surprise. Your focus narrows until he is all that you can see. You would only have one shot – if this failed, he would be utterly victorious. Perhaps... perhaps you could use the pouch of powder. Your hand reaches out slowly.

One step later, Bai's eyes widen.

It was, in fact, a terrible decision to shift your attention away from Bai Jiutian and get that close to Zhang Manxing’s body especially when you suspected that he was not yet dead.

A hoarse scream pierces your ear as Zhang Manxing hooks one handless arm over your throat, the severe pain from your legs slowing your reflexes. His wound has stopped bleeding; red frost coats the stump. You feel cold steel push its way into your back without hesitation, scraping your spine. A dagger of some sort. Zhang gives it a cruel twist. You let out a choking gasp, the hurt almost too much to bear.

“How do you like that?” he whispers slowly, crazily, gleefully... hatefully. “You bastard. You ball-less, cock-less bastard. I win. I win... take my hand... I'll take your life!”

A sudden, intense pulse of heat ripples from the wound, making its way throughout your body. With it, it brings needs. Desires. Arousal. The bastard has coated the blade with the same drug… no, it is more potent. A lot more potent. Every single muscle in your body clenches as you topple over; your aching eyes watching Bai run towards you.

Amidst the haze of yearning, you hear shouts, and sounds of a brief fight. You roll over on your back, staring up at the sky. Your breathing becomes laboured, heavy. Your mind is about to run away in protest from the intense feedback your senses are receiving.

A shadow falls over you: Bai Jiutian.

He looks down at you and shakes his head. “What a disappointment.”

He can still save you. If. If only... You try to open your mouth, but the only sound you can make is a hungry panting. Your consciousness is fading, your back arching as the aphrodisiac does its work. Your limbs refuse to heed your commands, curled up tight as they are. It will not take long before your mind is irrevocably maddened by the drug.

A frown of disgust crosses his face. “No matter. It’s too late for you now. You have companions. I will just have to approach them instead. Farewell, Man Tiger Pig,” he murmurs. He leaves without a further word, vanishing from your sight.

Perhaps it is a mercy that your heart stops soon after the madness takes you.


---END---
Last edited: Apr 30, 2014

And let us not forget the brilliant "risks" of being honest with Naim and getting a bullet in the eye or risking life and limb to save horndog Theseus only to be put down like an ailing pet for convenience sake. lemming.gif indeed.

Think about it: she is willing to lure another human into a room and brutally murder him, offering him as a human sacrifice with a look of "unhinged satisfaction" on her face.

Yes. She is desperate.

Orly? So desperate people get a look of unhinged satisfaction while murdering people in cold blood. Like, if you saw a man slice open some guy on the street with a look of unhinged satisfaction, you'd say, "gosh, the poor guy must have been desperate!"? Good to know.

 

[Nevill]

Btw, you don't think she's worked that out by now? I'd say it's certainly probable she has and is choosing to remain for only one reason.

I don't know. The hospital finds ways to keep people in here. Perhaps her sibling is such a way.

And how do you know she's has always waited? We remember some nights, but not all of them and certainly not 27 years worth. You know what I would do if I were in her position and believed what she does after having been through what she has? "Kill him anyway. I have to be sure. If he is lying, he'll come back tomorrow night anyway. Nothing to lose by trying."

She is acting as if she is trying this for the first time. Many things point to that, including the desperation she feels, the hopeful tone of her voice when she asks us, her nervousness, the use of word 'finally', trying to reassure herself that we really remember (if she received a confirmation before, she'd remember it without trying to verify it with us), and the belief that if she does us in, she will be free. Obviously, she has never done this before, else she'd either be free, or under no illusions.

If we let her live without giving her something more solid to go on than our word, she'll kill us. There is almost no question of it.

Immediately or after?

I'd say the act of mercy itself would be enough to plant a doubt in her. If we remember everything and are the one who did it to her, why would we spare her?

I'd say it will halt the hostilities for a while. This is fine by me. What becomes of it later is in our hands.

Also, now that we know of her intentions, we can avoid them better. She is sane enough not to attack us when other people are around because she knows she would seem like a lunatic.

It's not that she tried to kill us out of remorseful necessity here. It was premeditated murder mixed with rage and anger.

Well, it kinda lacks the 'remorseful' part, now does it?

I don't see what you are trying to say. Yes, she tried to kill us. If we find out why exactly she believes her actions will help her, we may find a way to dissuade her one way or another.

You know that was before Jing got retconned into a woman.

Y'know, I always suspected something. Xir was too much of a feminist.

Besides, you seem to have forgotten this:

No, I remember it perfectly. Miss Bai was a double-edged sword that should never have been underestimated. If you turn your back to her, you will be lkilled, simple as that.

She also turned out to be one of our most useful allies.

And let us not forget the brilliant "risks" of being honest with Naim and getting a bullet in the eye or risking life and limb to save horndog Theseus only to be put down like an ailing pet for convenience sake.

Theseusing intensifies.

Orly?

Yarly.

So desperate people get a look of unhinged satisfaction while murdering people in cold blood. Like, if you saw a man slice open some guy on the street with a look of unhinged satisfaction, you'd say, "gosh, the poor guy must have been desperate!"?

Good thing we aren't some guy in the street, then.

After we have shot a guy in the eye on our very first night (so it's not like we were driven to it) with a smile on our face and daydreamed about driving a thermometer in a girl's ear while stangling a boy with a sthetoscope, I am not gong to insinuate that someone else in unhinged.

If you want to get into meta, the mere fact that every character has a route associated with them suggest that their problems are solvable. Of course, it may happen that we have squandered our chance for a 'happy ending' and there is no 'satisfactory' resolution anymore, but I suspect we are not fully there yet.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And how do you know she's has always waited? We remember some nights, but not all of them and certainly not 27 years worth. You know what I would do if I were in her position and believed what she does after having been through what she has? "Kill him anyway. I have to be sure. If he is lying, he'll come back tomorrow night anyway. Nothing to lose by trying."

She is acting as if she is trying this for the first time. Many things point to that, including the desperation she feels, the hopeful tone of her voice when she asks us, her nervousness, the use of word 'finally', trying to reassure herself that we really remember (if she received a confirmation before, she'd remember it without trying to verify it with us), and the belief that if she does us in, she will be free. Obviously, she has never done this before, else she'd either be free, or under no illusions.

Your definition of desperation aside, we don't really know what her despair is a result of or if she had tried the ritual before being aware of the "fact" we had to remember before we could be a sacrifice. (Which may just be something the old man told her in case we succeeded at seeing the void again - which we did.) I do think she knows how to leave. She's too smart, too knowledgeable and has been at this too long not to, I think the thing that is "trapping" her is her desire to complete the ritual and rescue her loved one. If it wasn't one of her chief motivations she probably wouldn't have even brought it up. After 27 years of only desiring escape, it'd just be an afterthought.

And all that aside, the fact that she managed to knock down a grown man (Liam Neesan's protege no less) and pin him to the ground with no hesitation would suggest that this isn't her first rodeo.

If we let her live without giving her something more solid to go on than our word, she'll kill us. There is almost no question of it.

Immediately or after?

As soon as we let our guard down, but now if necessary. Now is the perfect time since the others are out of earshot and can't interfere. edit: of course, she could just wait and make up a story of how we attacked her. Then the others wwould tie us up and it'd only be a matter of time before they left us alone...

I'd say the act of mercy itself would be enough to plant a doubt in her. If we remember everything and are the one who did it to her, why would we spare her?

Does not compute. If that were enough to give her pause, why would us following her obediently into the room, being led like a lamb to the slaughter, not give her pause too?

She already knows we are willing to talk with her. She lured us in here on the assumption that we'd be willing to engage her in dialog and that we had no desire to harm her - otherwise I rather think she'd have kept her distance from us on the way to the room instead of leading us by the hand.

Mercy may just equate to opportunity in her eyes. We don't know that she thinks we're evil or that she thinks we wanted to kill her, as I said. We only know that she thinks we are holding her relative somehow and that our sacrifice will bring her back.

It's not that she tried to kill us out of remorseful necessity here. It was premeditated murder mixed with rage and anger.

Well, it kinda lacks the 'remorseful' part, now does it?

I don't see what you are trying to say. Yes, she tried to kill us. If we find out why exactly she believes her actions will help her, we may find a way to dissuade her one way or another.

Perhaps I didn't phrase that clearly, my bad. Let me take another "stab" at it: She has no remorse about killing us. She was ENJOYING murdering us. It's not like before when she actually apologized for taking the charm. She has been working up to this a long time and relishes the thought of killing us.

After we have shot a guy in the eye on our very first night (so it's not like we were driven to it) with a smile on our face and daydreamed about driving a thermometer in a girl's ear while stangling a boy with a sthetoscope, I am not gong to insinuate that someone else in unhinged.

There is a big difference between smirking about killing a murderer who just stabbed a woman half to death in front of you and smirking as you murder the guy you just lured into a room as a human sacrifice.

If you want to get into meta, the mere fact that every character has a route associated with them suggest that their problems are solvable. Of course, it may happen that we have squandered our chance for a 'happy ending' and there is no 'satisfactory' resolution anymore, but I suspect we are not fully there yet.

A meta argument from Nevill. Never thought I'd see the day...

So because there is a route there must be a solution? Just how Bioware do you think treave is, hmm?

 

[Nevill]

There is a big difference between smirking about killing a murderer who just stabbed a woman half to death in front of you and smirking as you murder the guy you just lured into a room as a human sacrifice.

Whoa, whoa, stop right there, bro. :D

It is almost as if you are saying that murdering someone and feeling good about it is alright as long as you think they deserved it have REASONS.

Us? We had perfect REASONS for shooting that guy in the face and grinning all the way while we are at it. Uehara? 'Tis unfathomable, she must be a total psycho!

I am not about to fall into a 'she is mad at us, we must have done something wrong' pitfall of beta-male thinking, but consider this. We still do not know what happened in the first night when we found her body in a locked room just after losing control of our body.

An interesting thought to ponder over would be: we only remember five iterations, but Uehara was here for thousands of those. Was there Shinoseki Adachi in the iterations we do not remember? And if there was, who was in control?

Considering that our psyche may be a mish-mash of different souls, it might be a valid question.

Your definition of desperation aside, we don't really know what her despair is a result of or if she had tried the ritual before being aware of the "fact" we had to remember before we could be a sacrifice.

I think she didn't try it on us, if only because we have no recollection of it and judging by her words we are supposed to remember.

I do think she knows how to leave. She's too smart, too knowledgeable and has been at this too long not to, I think the thing that is "trapping" her is her desire to complete the ritual and rescue her loved one. If it wasn't one of her chief motivations she probably wouldn't have even brought it up. After 27 years of only desiring escape, it'd just be an afterthought.

I think you are right there. But if she can't free the person in question, she can't leave all the same. That's her curse and her leash.

I can see several solutions to the problem, involving either freeing her sister (I'll call Seika - who is totally not Seiko - her sister because she refers to her as 'nee') by reviving/killing her, or convincing Uehara of the futility of her quest - which may just be possible if Seika tells her that much. I doubt her sister would want her to suffer an endless torment if we can't help her.

As soon as we let our guard down,

Quite possible. Which is why I would suggest not letting it down and making it obvious that killing us is not the right way to go about achieving her goals, either because it will not do what she thinks it would, or because it would be too costly - and provide her with an alternative. In other words, if we try to help her, she would be less likely to consider falling back to her initial plan.

but now if necessary.

Impossible. First, she has no weapon and we are more experienced with furniture-fu. Second, she attacked us from the back which indicates a lack of confidence. Third, once it did not work, her expression turned into one of 'abject horror'. That is not a mindset for someone who would attack you openly.

of course, she could just wait and make up a story of how we attacked her. Then the others would tie us up and it'd only be a matter of time before they left us alone...

Does not compute. If that were enough to give her pause, why would us following her obediently into the room, being led like a lamb to the slaughter, not give her pause too?

That is an interesting question and you raise a fair point. Perhaps she thought we are that confident? Perhaps she thought we would be interested in what she has to say or to offer? I can only make assumptions here.

Mercy may just equate to opportunity in her eyes. We don't know that she thinks we're evil or that she thinks we wanted to kill her, as I said.

You know all too well that I err on the side of caution in these things and try to avoid resorting to irreversible measures.

Edit:

So because there is a route there must be a solution? Just how Bioware do you think treave is, hmm?

Full Bioware, of course.

Truly, Master Gaider has taught me well. Unfortunately I am still not diverse enough to get an internship at Bioware.

But it has more to do with VNs and their genre conventions than with our favorite progressive RPG developer.

In any case, it was not an actual argument, just an aside. I am not going there. Nuh-uh.

 

[treave]

So because there is a route there must be a solution? Just how Bioware do you think treave is, hmm?

Not for lack of trying, I can tell you that.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

There is a big difference between smirking about killing a murderer who just stabbed a woman half to death in front of you and smirking as you murder the guy you just lured into a room as a human sacrifice.

Whoa, whoa, stop right there, bro. :D

It is almost as if you are saying that murdering someone and feeling good about it is alright as long as you think they deserved it have REASONS.

Us? We had perfect REASONS for shooting that guy in the face and grinning all the way while we are at it. Uehara? 'Tis unfathomable, she must be a total psycho!

Knew you'd go there, but it isn't the same. Heat of the moment + seeing multiple victims already dead + witnessing a murder in progress and then shooting someone in the heat of the moment in order to save someone else is different from engaging someone in conversation, causing them to trust you, leading them by the hand into a quiet place and then committing a murder you had planned from the start.

We still do not know what happened in the first night when we found her body in a locked room just after losing control of our body.

An interesting thought to ponder over would be: we only remember five iterations, but Uehara was here for thousands of those. Was there Shinoseki Adachi in the iterations we do not remember? And if there was, who was in control?

To gloat in our ear as she did meant she was speaking to this iteration, not another one, with no appologies. And again, if she were at all thinking we'd harm her, why did she lead us by the hand so far from the others? If we were the one that murdered her that first night (and recall that whatever did murder her had swung a sleghammer with tremendous strength in order to have mutilated her so), don't you'd think she'd be hesitant to be alone with us?

As soon as we let our guard down,

Quite possible. Which is why I would suggest not letting it down and making it obvious that killing us in not the right way to go about achieving her goals, either because it will not do what she thinks it would, or because it would be too costly - and provide her with an alternative. In other words, if we try to help her, she would be less likely to consider falling back to her initial plan.

And just how do we help her apart from lying down and dying? You put forth several things that might dissuade her, but we have no power to accomplish them. She is convinced our death is the only solution to the point that she is willing to commit premeditated homicide and gory human sacrifice. She has been convinced for years. Why would she pass up the chance to end things now, by whatever means because we say we want to help without actually having a plan to help? She didn't talk to us on the way and ask us if we knew how to help. She wasn't hoping for another solution. As far as she is concerned, she knows the answer and anything we have to say doesn't matter.

of course, she could just wait and make up a story of how we attacked her. Then the others would tie us up and it'd only be a matter of time before they left us alone...

Yes, it's like the last time I made this argument, no one listened and we ended up locked up, everyone was murdered, we got touched by the ghost and then had our head ripped off. Good point you have there.

 

[oscar]

She spoke to us with no doubt, concern or unease but pure maddened hatred. Question her and put her out of her misery.

 

[Nevill]

Knew you'd go there, but it isn't the same.

Well don't make it easy, then. Looks quite the same to me.

I recall the heat of the moment passing when we finally shot Taketatsu. By then he was finished with Maeda and wanted to talk.

Besides, your argument explains why we shot him, but not why we smiled - quite funny, considering the fact that Uehara enjoyed the thought of gutting us is central to your theory of her being beyond help.

Are we a psychopathic killer, too? Why are you so selective when it comes to these things?

To gloat in our ear as she did meant she was speaking to this iteration, not another one, with no appologies.

I did not notice any gloating.

Why are you placing so much emphasys on an apology? No, she is not sorry about trying to kill us, and she does not think herself in the wrong. That much is established.

She may have REASONS, or she may be mistaken, or simply misled.

And again, if she were at all thinking we'd harm her, why was she so comfortable leading us by the hand so far from the others? If we were the one that murdered her that first night (and recall that whatever did murder her had swung a sleghammer with tremendous strength in order to have mutilated her so), don't you'd think she'd be hesitant to be alone with us?

Maybe she did not care? She had died in hundreds of ways already, and if our experience is something to go by, they probably weren't very pleasant. I mean, what can we do to harm her worse than the hospital already did?

Well, aside from what you are suggesting, of course.

And just how do we help her apart from lying down and dying? You put forth several things that might dissuade her, but we have no power to accomplish them.

Those are for us to figure out. If we had no power to change things around here, then what is the point of playing the game?

Why would she pass up the chance to end things now, by whatever means because we say we want to help without actually having a plan to help?

Because she missed that chance and because we may offer another way?

She didn't talk to us on the way and ask us if we knew how to help. She wasn't hoping for another solution.

She does not think there is one. If we find it, or even prove that it exists, we can change her outlook.

Hey, no one said pimpin' was easy.

Yes, just like the last time I made this argument, no one listened and we ended up locked up: everyone was murdered, got touched by the ghost and then had our head ripped off. Good point you have there.

Exactly.

Seriously, though, you are conjuring the worst possible scenarios. Are they possible? Yes. Are they inevitable? I don't think so.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

She spoke to us with no doubt, concern or unease but pure maddened hatred. Question her and put her out of her misery.

If only it were so simple. But the fact is, it's likely she will just rise again...maybe. I mean, as I said before, we may have escaped the loop temporarily, I'm not sure. The clock has been replaced with chapter titles...

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Knew you'd go there, but it isn't the same.

Well don't make it easy, then. Looks quite same to me.

I recall the heat of the moment passing when we finally shot Taketatsu. By then he was finished with Maeda and wanted to talk.

Yeah, he's no threat. Just killed everyone else and wanted to kill Mitsuki, but he wanted to talk. He was armed with a knife too. Good guy and probably just "desperate", amirite?

Besides, your argument explains why we shot him, but not why we smiled - quite funny, considering the fact that Uehara enjoyed the thought of gutting is central to your theory of her being beyond help.

No, the whole premeditated nature of the murder is more damning. Again, to commit murder in cold blood is different. That's why we have a 1st degree murder classification in law...

Are we a psychopathic killer, too? Why are you so selective when it comes to these things?

No, for all the reasons above, but besides that: It's not about her being evil. It's about her being dead set on being our enemy to the point of madness and therefor being beyond the point where empty words would sway her. I am not judging her morally, but judging her as a threat, so any hypocrisy on our part - whether it exists or not - is irrelevant.

To gloat in our ear as she did meant she was speaking to this iteration, not another one, with no apologies.

I did not notice any gloating.

I'd classify what she said to us as gloating, but perhaps I am not using the right word to convey my point. What I mean to say is that she wasn't whispering "I'm sorry" it was an angry speech full of accusation and almost a declaration of victory.

Why are you placing so much emphasys on an apology? No, she is not sorry about trying to kill us, and she does not think herself in the wrong. That much is established.

She may have REASONS, or she may be mistaken, or simply misled.

Right and we have nothing to counter whatever that is with. We have no other solution for her problem other than our own death.

I place emphasis on apology because it shows a difference in her demeanor and intent between then and now. Then she regarded us as a person to be pitied and apologized to, but she has no pity for us even as she murders us. She no longer regards us as a person worthy of pity. She has gone mad with time.

And again, if she were at all thinking we'd harm her, why was she so comfortable leading us by the hand so far from the others? If we were the one that murdered her that first night (and recall that whatever did murder her had swung a sledgehammer with tremendous strength in order to have mutilated her so), don't you'd think she'd be hesitant to be alone with us?

Maybe she did not care? She had died in hundreds of ways already, and if our experience is something to go by, they probably weren't very pleasant. I mean, what can we do to harm her worse than the hospital already did?

No, still doesn't make sense. We are her goal. The end of her suffering and the means by which she will receive her reward. It doesn't make sense. If she really thought we had the power to "hulk out" on her she would have waiting for a more opportune moment and attacked us with something better than a kitchen knife...

Because she missed that chance and because we may offer another way?

If she really thought there were another way, she would have asked. Not breaking her is just asking for the others to hunt us down (so is killing her or letting the ghost kill her btw, but it's better than just letting her get up and start spinning lies when we aren't prepared for it.)

She didn't talk to us on the way and ask us if we knew how to help. She wasn't hoping for another solution.

She does not think there is one. If we find it, or even prove that it exists, we can change her outlook.

Again, that's too far away. She'll have already gotten the others on our case by then. It's now or never.

Yes, just like the last time I made this argument, no one listened and we ended up locked up: everyone was murdered, got touched by the ghost and then had our head ripped off. Good point you have there.

Seriously, though, you are conjuring the worst possible scenarios. Are they possible? Yes. Are they inevitable? I don't think so.

And yet they keep happening.

 

[Dayyālu]

B>A>C

+1

Proper points and interesting thinking.

Will backfire, of course. Perspectives are everything, and ours is painfully limited in some ways.

Interesting CYOA. Congrats, treave.

 

[Nevill]

Yeah, he's no threat. Just killed everyone else and wanted to kill Mitsuki, but he wanted to talk.

He did? You sure you aren't confusing the events of the first and third nights?

Regardless, I was addressing the point that we killed him to protect someone in the heat of the moment. No, we didn't.

Good guy and probably just "desperate", amirite?

The sort of guy we would try to murder if he remembered everything and still acted if nothing happened. Amirite?

No, for all the reasons above

Excuse me for missing the reason why we have apparently enjoyed the murder or at least found a strange satisfaction in it. Could you cite it again?

Because Shinoseki Adachi couldn't.

It's about her being dead set on being our enemy to the point of madness.

And it's about me not believing that we necessarily have to be enemies.

I have a feeling beliefs may have some power here.

What I mean to say is that she wasn't whispering "I'm sorry" it was an angry speach full of accusation and almost a declaration of victory.

Yes. It isn't exactly hard to understand why it is the way it is.

Right and we have nothing to counter whatever that is with. We have no other solution for her problem other than our own death.

You don't know that.

I place emphasis on apology because it shows a difference in her demeanor and intent between then and now. Then she regarded us as a person to be pitied and apologized to, but she has no pity for us even as she murders us. She no longer regards us as a person worthy of pity. She has gone mad with time.

I hope that the process can be reversed and I am willing to try.

You need to be trying to save her wholeheartedly, which includes resolving to save her mind, and maintaining a positive attitude if you even want a chance at succeeding.

No, still doesn't make sense. We are her goal. The end of her suffering and the means by which she will receive her reward. It doesn't make sense. If she really thought we had the power to "hulk out" on her she would have waiting for a more opportune moment and attacked us with something better than a kitchen knife...

I am not talking about 'hulking out'. You asked why she went with us if she thought we could harm her. I told you that it might be because she thinks she has nothing more to lose.

She did wait for an opportunate moment to stab us in the back. I am proposing an interpretation of events where not striking back at her might be a first step in changing her attitude towards us.

If she really thought there were another way, she would have asked.

No, she does not think there is one. I thought I mentioned this part.

However, it does not mean that it is true.

Not breaking her is just asking for the others to hunt us down (so is killing her or letting the ghost kill her btw, but it's better than just letting her get up and start spinning lies when we aren't prepared for it.)

Well, you better prepare for it or have a reason for her not to. Making sure she can't sacrifice you by alerting the others of her intentions (if it comes to that) may be one such reason. I have already mentioned the others.

Besides, we have the Book of Fixing Someone Else's Fuck-ups. I am sure we will be fine.

And yet they keep happening.

It is a mystery.

 

[Kz3r0]

On a side note 27 years is acycle of Saturn, yes, by an esoteric point of view that's important.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Tired of the line by line quoting.

Let me just quote this:

“Now it’s your turn, Shinoseki Adachi-san,” smiles Taketatsu, blood still dripping off his spectacles. His eyes shine darkly behind the red stains. “We need to talk. But before that, put down the gun. An amateur has no business holding one. It would look better in my hand. I should have it, right? Ha. Ha ha. I know you understand, right? Right?”

Yeah. No threat at all. Maeda is still alive at this point and we don't know if Mitsuki is alive or dead and we were just told we needed to protect her. But yeah, totally murder to kill this maniac. Totally the same as luring an unarmed man into a room, killing him and sacrificing him to raise a dead person. Totally. And it'd be totally wrong to enjoy killing this monster. We don't even need to argue anymore because I agree completely.

As to Uehara, it's not about there being another way or not. There may be, there may not be, but we don't have anything to convince her NOW and since NOW is the point were she can easily betray us to the others or lead us into yet another trap, I think NOW is when we have to evaluate her as a threat. To me, she is too great a threat as an enemy to be allowed to continue on as she is and too far gone for words or actions to change that.

edit: I really don't want to kill her though. harem/pimp skill and all...

 

[Nevill]

I don't see why you are arguing if it is morally wrong to kill Taketatsu with someone who was very much in favor of it.

Yes, he was a threat. No, we didn't do it to protect Maeda. We were surprised to find she was still alive, so being protective of her was not a part of our reasoning.

But yeah, totally murder to kill this maniac.

It is.

I should have shot him earlier.

There is no point in shooting him.

I’m a murderer.

He deserved it.

We are a murderer, and he deserved it. Both of those can be true simultaneously. Isn't the world a wonderful thing?

Totally the same as luring an unarmed man into a room, killing him and sacrificing him to raise a dead person.

It is much worse than luring 12 people into the hospital, killing them and sacrificing them to raise a dead person unknown ends, I'll give you that.

And it'd be totally wrong to enjoy killing this monster.

Well, this would be a good point to drop sarcasm.

Yes. If you enjoy murder, there is something very wrong with you and you should go see a psychiatrist.

Shinoseki Adachi - the personality we have control over - understood that and was surprised and frightened by this discovery.

There may be, there may not be, but we don't have anything to convince her NOW and since NOW is the point were she can easily betray us to the others or lead us into yet another trap, I think NOW is when we have to evaluate her as a threat. To me, she is too great a threat as an enemy to be allowed to continue on as she is.

Good thing that she can't harm us NOW, if we compress NOW to the single point in time while we are in this room.

If we can't get through to her, we can just continue exploring the hospital by ourseves as Ei suggested.

I don't think the others would be much more of a danger with her around than if we return without her and they find the body.

edit: I really don't want to kill her though. harem/pimp skill and all...

Yes, just turn her into a fuckdoll. That is quite thoughtful of you.