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Absinthe

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Esquilax, I don't think BJ trusts Jing enough to fall for that. The main reason I go with A2 to deceive him is because I think that's as close to proof as we can provide to sway him.

What do you think of the scenario I mention where even if we lose to Bai Jiutian, he'd probably side with us anyway since we've been defeated and still had no Wuxiang Qiankun to show, so he'd want to chase the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual?
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Let the Zhang clan send their regards, we trashed their goons once and can do it again.
Is that an answer to my post?

Because I don't think it will only be zhang clan who will send their regards. If manxing wants you extra dead - and he does - he will ensure everyone and their mother will hear of it.

I'm sure he can think of something. If he fails to do it himself he can always tell to his scheming mommy while keeping it hidden from the Zangs.
Isn't he doing what he is doing to break free from his mommy who seems to be in a bed with zhang clan, and learn to defend himself without relying on her?
 
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Kipeci

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Kipeci, did you forget the Zhang clan has Xiaoming Jiuyang manual now? EDIT: Also, I never said that was a failsafe. You read that all on your own. I said our kenjutsu also has its own benefits which you are overlooking.

Let them come at us, we need some decent villains to work up to trash and there's really no one who deserves it more than them it seems.

As for the kenjutsu, yes, it has benefits, we know all these little tricks that artificially boost our skill level with swords in the realm of that one style. I don't view small increases in effectiveness for enhanced perception as being anywhere near enough to make us have a good chance to take on BJ with our current sword skills, though, and that's where I part from you.

Because I don't think it will only be zhang clan who will send their regards. If manxing wants you extra dead - and he does - he will ensure everyone and their mother will hear of it.

That is good, let the mothers come! We need much more practice against decently skilled foes, if they're willing to supply the men I see no reason not to allow them.
 

Absinthe

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Nevill, no, I'd say Bai Jiutian is doing what he can to benefit himself. His scheming mommy is a problem if Huashan is holding out on him while the Zhang family is dicking him, but if he can get legendary techniques, prestige, and upwards mobility, then I think he could just as well stay with Huashan.

Kipeci, I'm worried they could trash our crew though, if not us.

As for the kenjutsu, well, yeah, I do think you're underrating the shift from 7 perception to 9. I already mentioned how it improves our sword techniques while giving us better insights into Bai Jiutian's confusing/deceptive swordsmanship, but for the most part I just think it's good enough to create small openings for our unarmed techniques. After all, it's already accomplished that in this update, so I think we can do it again.
 
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Kipeci

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I'm worried they could trash our crew though, if not us.

Any of them destroyed provide that much more reason for vengeance, such is the way of the narrative. Although, if we assemble a harem large enough then it'll be tantamount to attacking an army to do anything near us... I wonder about how the logistics of food are being handled if Jing and Cao'er's sister are the only decent cooks.

As for the kenjutsu, well, yeah, I do think you're underrating the shift from 7 perception to 9. I already mentioned how it improves our sword techniques while giving us better insights into Bai Jiutian's confusing/deceptive swordsmanship, but for the most part I think it's good enough to allow us to create small openings for our unarmed techniques. After all, it's already accomplished that before in this update, so I think we can do it again.

And how long until BJ devotes his significant skills in perception (probably greater than our own) and so on to devising counters for the one style of swordsmanship we are proficient in? If you're arguing that a greatly skilled sword user with high perception should come up with counters on the fly, well, that doesn't exactly bode well for us if we go after him in A2. Unless you're feeling confident on taking him on with our self-developed style as a back-up, which I'm... not.

We can definitely make a few openings, but we weren't able to capitalize on any of them to a real effect and once he gets the hang of our weird sword moves then we're essentially screwed. It's a race against time in which we can only occasionally strike ineffective blows while any errant strike from him in finding the same can do us severe damage.
 

Nevill

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treave, I have a question about the mechanics of WQS.

Does WQS copy the neigong of out opponents? Do we lose our own benefits to gain theirs instead? Does the temporary skill increase affect only their techniques, or can it be applied to ours as well? For example, if we watch Yifang perform Qingcheng Stap with swords at 8, can we use our Yuchang Sword technique with the same level of skilll, or are we still limited to 7?
 
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Absinthe

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Kipeci, I really don't think Bai Jiutian has 10 perception. You're suggesting BJ's perception is as good as Cao'er's before she learned Reikan. If I had to guess, Bai Jiutian's perception would be 8 or 7. If his perception were as good as you claim, we wouldn't have been able to stealth on him.

As for capitalizing on openings, treave already confirmed we have much stronger moves than the ones we used there though. Since we have such a repertoire of powerful unarmed techniques, I would say that if we get serious, we can probably disrupt his swordsmanship and drag it into an unarmed fight. Heck, Raging Claws of the Mad Lion (our strongest technique) doesn't even really need openings like the rest since the qi swipes carve through the air.

I really don't think Bai Jiutian is that far above us, tbh.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
treave, I have a question about the mechanics of WQS.

Does WQS copy the neigong of out opponents?

If you want/need it to, yes.

Do we lose our own benefits to gain theirs instead?

When using techniques that require a particular neigong, yes.

Example: if you copy the ice needles, you'd also copy the Xueguizi neigong at the same time and use it to make the needles.

Does the temporary skill increase affect only their techniques, or can it be applied to ours as well? For example, if we watch Yifang perform Qingcheng Stap with swords at 8, can we use our Yuchang Sword technique with the same level or skilll, or are we still limited to 7?

Limited to the copied techniques for now.
 

Absinthe

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B2, though I'm still very open to flopping. There's just a ton of danger in revealing that Ahura is dead to the Fire Cult's worst enemy here.
I'm more concerned that Bai Jiutian will interpret it as a lie with a grain of truth in it - then he might consider that the Fire Temple has the Wuxiang Qiankun manual. In that case, B2 would be the worst option.
 
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Kipeci

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Kipeci, I really don't think Bai Jiutian has 10 perception. You're suggesting BJ's perception is as good as Cao'er's before she learned Reikan. If I had to guess, Bai Jiutian's perception would be 8 or 7. If his perception were as good as you claim, we wouldn't have been able to stealth on him.

As for capitalizing on openings, treave already confirmed we have much stronger moves than the ones we used there though. Since we have such a repertoire of powerful unarmed techniques, I would say that if we get serious, we can probably disrupt his swordsmanship and drag it into an unarmed fight. Heck, Raging Claws of the Mad Lion (our strongest technique) doesn't even really need openings like the rest since the qi swipes carve through the air.

I really don't think Bai Jiutian is that far above us, tbh.

Yes, and? We have a base perception of 4, about on par with a potato. There are plenty of techniques around to boost the stuff, which is why we were able to make up so much of the difference.

Reikan. (霊勘, Spiritual Instinct) A technique that involves the use of qi in such a way that it augments the five senses of the practitioner. It is analogous to multiple similar techniques known by martial arts practitioners in the Central Plains. It requires a calm inner state to be used effectively, with the greatest effects being seen during meditation. (+3 Perception)

The base stats don't matter when you can stack techniques on top. He may not have the same base perception as Cao'er, but he doesn't have to! He can have a number of techniques boosting him on up past there. If one-eyed Jing has just shy of 9 perception, the overwhelming majority of which is from various techniques, I don't see why the guy who's spent much more of his life training has to be limited to what he was given by nature.

He's seen through our stealth before when we were a servant hidden behind a screen, we just happened to catch him off guard when we turned out to be hiding in the very midst of his safe place and home, specifically the bath tub he relaxes in. Everyone has off days, we managed to evade Cao'er's eyes by dodging into an alley when she was explicitly looking out for us back at the time of the Young Tiger's Tournament. He has decent perception, he has strong skills in the sword, according to your earlier logic that's a great way to come up with counters on the fly. So what's your plan for when he devises a counter to the Japanese technique that you're holding up as our hope for victory?

BJ can also send swipes of qi to cut through the air, and he can send them out from the reach of his sword rather than that of merely his arms.
 

Absinthe

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Yes, and? We have a base perception of 4, about on par with a potato. There are plenty of techniques around to boost the stuff, which is why we were able to make up so much of the difference.
Average perception is 5. Anyway, if he had perception above 8, we wouldn't've been able to sneak up on him with our 8 stealth. And a neigong that boosts perception is probably a rare thing.

The base stats don't matter when you can stack techniques on top. He may not have the same base perception as Cao'er, but he doesn't have to! He can have a number of techniques boosting him on up past there. If one-eyed Jing has just shy of 9 perception, the overwhelming majority of which is from various techniques, I don't see why the guy who's spent much more of his life training has to be limited to what he was given by nature.
He isn't, but I don't think he can stack the same amount of bonuses we can. Besides, if Cao'er didn't have a perception technique like Reikan, then I suspect perception techniques aren't that common either.

He's seen through our stealth before when we were a servant hidden behind a screen, we just happened to catch him off guard when we turned out to be hiding in the very midst of his safe place and home, specifically the bath tub he relaxes in.
Our stealth was 1 point higher this time.

Everyone has off days, we managed to evade Cao'er's eyes by dodging into an alley when she was explicitly looking out for us back at the time of the Young Tiger's Tournament.
I don't think that was a serious stealth check.

He has decent perception, he has strong skills in the sword, according to your earlier logic that's a great way to come up with counters on the fly. So what's your plan for when he devises a counter to the Japanese technique that you're holding up as our hope for victory?
One counter isn't necessarily instant victory and we still have moves like Raging Claws of the Mad Lion.

BJ can also send swipes of qi to cut through the air, and he can send them out from the reach of his sword rather than that of merely his arms.
"Merely his arms." Uh, in wuxia stories, unarmed cutting qi attacks like ours are much crazier than plain old sword qi. At any rate, I think we could fend him off with our raging claws style (or mix it up with our sword attacks). It's a rank 10 technique for a reason.

That said, I've mentioned this many times before but I think even losing the fight in A2 would be better than any of the other options.
 
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treave

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Codex 2012
So, should I close the votes, or do you guys still want some more time to hash it out?
 

Baltika9

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Fuck it. Flopping back to a solid D since showing BJ our WQS in battle unnerves me. I have zero grasp on his character and motivations except "power!"
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
And we are tied again, aren't we?

The arguments are certainly not getting anywhere. Haven't seen Tigranes, ScubaV or TOME voting out of the regulars. Maybe they can help resolve this.

inb4 D results in a Leon moment.
 
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Baltika9

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Nah. I think D had it with the conditional flops. If you're ready then closer up the votes, the DISCUSS is going on circles anyway.
Edit: ah, nevermind.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
Black End

“Let’s check if Zhang is really dead before we have any showdowns,” you offer.

“You must be delusional if you think I’m going to buy that excuse to stall. Even if he isn’t, he is in no condition to go anywhere. I will take care of him afterwards… for now, my business is with you.”

It looks like he isn’t listening.

You break into a run, catching Bai Jiutian off-guard with your sudden burst of speed. Keeping your distance from him, you close in on Zhang Manxing’s body, hoping to ensure his death. His disembodied hand is still lying by his side, clutching the small pouch in its pale fingers.

You sense an attack coming towards your back and try to evade, but it is too little, too late; a sudden stinging pain cuts into your calves from behind. You stumble, falling and rolling towards Zhang’s body, ending up almost on top of him. Zhang's body does not budge. The pain from your severed muscles is so intense that you are unable to stay upright, try as you might.

It was not a good decision to shift your attention away from Bai Jiutian in a fight.

You crawl around to face him immediately; panic trying its best to batter down your mental fortitude. Bai Jiutian sheathes his sword, his face is carefully impassive. He betrays no signs of emotion as he approaches you. It looks like you are at his mercy. You return your full attention towards him… perhaps if he gets close enough you might have a chance to take him by surprise. Your focus narrows until he is all that you can see. You would only have one shot – if this failed, he would be utterly victorious. Perhaps... perhaps you could use the pouch of powder. Your hand reaches out slowly.

One step later, Bai's eyes widen.

It was, in fact, a terrible decision to shift your attention away from Bai Jiutian and get that close to Zhang Manxing’s body especially when you suspected that he was not yet dead.

A hoarse scream pierces your ear as Zhang Manxing hooks one handless arm over your throat, the severe pain from your legs slowing your reflexes. His wound has stopped bleeding; red frost coats the stump. You feel cold steel push its way into your back without hesitation, scraping your spine. A dagger of some sort. Zhang gives it a cruel twist. You let out a choking gasp, the hurt almost too much to bear.

“How do you like that?” he whispers slowly, crazily, gleefully... hatefully. “You bastard. You ball-less, cock-less bastard. I win. I win... take my hand... I'll take your life!”

A sudden, intense pulse of heat ripples from the wound, making its way throughout your body. With it, it brings needs. Desires. Arousal. The bastard has coated the blade with the same drug… no, it is more potent. A lot more potent. Every single muscle in your body clenches as you topple over; your aching eyes watching Bai run towards you.

Amidst the haze of yearning, you hear shouts, and sounds of a brief fight. You roll over on your back, staring up at the sky. Your breathing becomes laboured, heavy. Your mind is about to run away in protest from the intense feedback your senses are receiving.

A shadow falls over you: Bai Jiutian.

He looks down at you and shakes his head. “What a disappointment.”

He can still save you. If. If only... You try to open your mouth, but the only sound you can make is a hungry panting. Your consciousness is fading, your back arching as the aphrodisiac does its work. Your limbs refuse to heed your commands, curled up tight as they are. It will not take long before your mind is irrevocably maddened by the drug.

A frown of disgust crosses his face. “No matter. It’s too late for you now. You have companions. I will just have to approach them instead. Farewell, Man Tiger Pig,” he murmurs. He leaves without a further word, vanishing from your sight.

Perhaps it is a mercy that your heart stops soon after the madness takes you.


---END---
 
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asxetos

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...


Rolling back to A2 now will be too harsh on Jing since treave will take his rollback toll. Congrats guys.
 

treave

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There're plenty of things I can say about the choice right now, things about priorities and so on, but I just have to ask...

Did you guys actually hate Zhang Manxing that much? :lol:
 
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yeah, really dun get why so many people were interested in him in the middle of this shit

good story treave, was fun
 

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